Is this season an answer - Who is greater Bellichick or Brady?

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, timekills17 said:

My opinion, the worst coaching job that Belichick has performed is this year but he still has time to turn it around.

And by worst/turn it around I mean playing competitive but losing football.

The best outcome AFC-E teams could ask for would be competent playing by the Pats leading to at least 6 wins. That virtually assures they aren't in the running for getting or trading for a top 2 draft position.

I know saying tank is considered heretical in the NFL, and that you'll lose the respect of your players, no real NFL player would not try his hardest to win, etc. etc.

That goes out the door with a coach that has Belichick's reputation to say nothing of the decimation of the team due to COVID and a more-than-usual amount of loss in free agency.

 

Imagine a Pats team that only wins one more game and drafting #2 with potential to trade for #1 - or worse, getting a farmload of picks for someone who wants to trade up to #2.

They and Miami would each have a bunch of picks, and could theoretically remake their teams in one offseason.

The Patriots haven't been a great drafting team with Belichick at the helm by himself. So I wouldn't be overly worried if they ended up with a slew of picks. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

4 hours ago, Putin said:

If Brady was still in New England do you think they would have the same record of 2-5 ? 
 

I don't think so but he could be on IR because the o-line has been bad.  Newton has been taking a lot of big hits.

[Artem Lipatov]

3 hours ago, Jobot said:

 hopefully the OP can now sleep well with this debate settled.

I usually sleep well with beatiful Russian girls ))

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, Artem Lipatov said:

I usually sleep well with beatiful Russian girls ))

Molodetz 👍

Edited October 27, 2020 by Putin

[Figster]

7 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Why does one have to be greater than they other? Why can’t they both be two of the best ever who had an amazing run together? 

Its a question that has been asked many times over the years.

 

Brady...

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

The Patriots aren't in the sh*ttr because of Brady as much as the collapse of their defense.

 

Their defense was ranked #1 last year.  They're currently #17.

 

Their offense was #15 last year - pretty mediocre even with Brady under center.  This year they're somewhat worse: #24.

 

Their D fell 16 slots while their O fell only 9.  

 

The Pats didn't just lose Brady.  They lost some FAs and led the league in COVID opt outs.  

 

Arguing whether Brady or Belichick is "The Answer" is kind of like arguing which came first, the chicken or the egg.  You can make valid arguments for both sides. 

 

I personally think it's a little bit of both. Belichick and Brady each contributed to the other's success.  

 

They had a couple good players on the defensive end hold out for covid this season which im sure belichick didn't plan for.  

[klos63]

Any team that loses a Hall of Fame QB that still plays at a high level will suffer, regardless of the coach.  All that this season says is that Brady is still great.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

If it weren't for the opt outs, I'd say Brady, but I'm with the choir on an Incomplete.

[Meatloaf63]

7 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Have you seen Tampa's Roster.  You mention Matt Cassel who ironically would be undefeated with that Roster.

Brady has about 4 or 5 games before grandpas arm tires out from the season and all the throws he’s making. The better teams will figure him out some, we’ll see in the end how far he goes. I doubt it ends with another ring...

[Buffalo Barbarian]

BRADY !! HAHAHAHA suck it Bellycheck !!

 

 

[Jobot]

20 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Bill didnt have this roster dropped on him.  He made it.  Drafted it, and traded for it.  The Pats having a bad offense and 0 depth on defense is 100% Bill's doing.  

 

Except... Bellichick wanted Brady gone 3 years ago. Instead, he now has a washed up Cam Newton at the helm, and a team that for the past several years outperformed from having Brady, that resulted in lower draft picks than what most teams would have been granted.... TO me this now proves that Belichick was RIGHT in wanting to move on from Brady sooner.  This is the fallout from Craft stepping in forcing the Garrapolo trade.

 

IMO you can't take this year sample size (also currently only 6 games), to conclude anything. Belichick has a 2-3 year rebuild on his hands at this point.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Yes.  So far answer is obvious, Brady.

[Figster]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yes.  So far answer is obvious, Brady.

Obviously QB is the most important position on a football team. Brady the GOAT.

 

When B B can win a championship with an average at best QB like Trent Dilfer or Jeff Hostetler. 

 

Maybe we can start considering B B the greatest coach of all time...

[dave mcbride]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:04 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

How can anyone compare the two situations?  This is a pretty silly comparison and guess people forgot about Matt Cassel too.

 

Patriots roster is not remotely close to the Bucs.  Brady has the greatest collection of weapons of his career right now.  Patriots offensive weapons is among the worst in the league right now.  
 

Patriots had several of their best players opt out on defense too for COVID and lost others as well.  Bucs have an excellent run defense and pretty good overall defense.
 

This is like asking why isn’t BB coaching the Jags to the Super Bowl right now because the Pats roster isn’t much better than the Jags.  Meanwhile, Brady is the QB of an offensive juggernaught with a pretty good defense too.  Same offense Winston threw for over 5000 yards in last year when it had less talent than it does this year.

 

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous comparison and literally means nothing in the story of who was more important.  They are both GOATS at what they do.  Brady is just on a SB roster where Pats are more of a 5-7 win team roster.  

Good post. TB's defense was great last year and was #2 overall in DVOA. Don't even think about looking at the points they gave up either; their QB set a record for negative team points, all of which got piled onto the defensive side of the ledger.

[Figster]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:04 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

How can anyone compare the two situations?  This is a pretty silly comparison and guess people forgot about Matt Cassel too.

 

Patriots roster is not remotely close to the Bucs.  Brady has the greatest collection of weapons of his career right now.  Patriots offensive weapons is among the worst in the league right now.  
 

Patriots had several of their best players opt out on defense too for COVID and lost others as well.  Bucs have an excellent run defense and pretty good overall defense.
 

This is like asking why isn’t BB coaching the Jags to the Super Bowl right now because the Pats roster isn’t much better than the Jags.  Meanwhile, Brady is the QB of an offensive juggernaught with a pretty good defense too.  Same offense Winston threw for over 5000 yards in last year when it had less talent than it does this year.

 

Sorry, but this is a ridiculous comparison and literally means nothing in the story of who was more important.  They are both GOATS at what they do.  Brady is just on a SB roster where Pats are more of a 5-7 win team roster.  

Thanks Alpha, always enjoyable to hear your opinion

 

New team, new coach, new system and bringing in over the hill and trouble making players like Gronk and now AB? OK

 

Lets see how B B fairs without Brady. He never accomplished much before him and its doubtful B B accomplishes much without him IMO. 

 

On a side note shouldn't B B take some responsibity for letting Brady walk and the position it put the Pats in without a good replacement? Tom Brady should be retiring as a Patriot. 

 

So whos fault is it that he's not...

Edited October 28, 2020 by Figster

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Was reading an article in the Athletic today that said a big part of the Pats issue this year is due to no off season work outs, pre-season etc.  While the article stated every team was affected the same way, it went on to talk about how the "Pats way" is to sign these mid level cheap FA's but then get them on board with the "Pat's way"  i.e. better understanding of every other players role on every play, not just their own or the guy next to him among other things,  Without all the time together, they've struggled more.  There are many players over the years who they sign and then play better than they ever have prior.  Then their contract runs out and because of the elevated play, some other team offers them a bigger contract, they bolt, and then crash back to earth again.  Meanwhile Belichick signed another cheap replacement and repeats the same thing.

 

Actually the Bills have followed  somewhat of a similar path too on both lines in particular.  Last year the O lineman signed all worked out, this year everyone was excited about the D linemen signed, (everyone stating we will be stronger than last year) so far have struggled to some level.  Maybe for the same reasons??  Will see if second half shows improvement??

[Chuck Wagon]

9 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Was reading an article in the Athletic today that said a big part of the Pats issue this year is due to no off season work outs, pre-season etc.  While the article stated every team was affected the same way, it went on to talk about how the "Pats way" is to sign these mid level cheap FA's but then get them on board with the "Pat's way"  i.e. better understanding of every other players role on every play, not just their own or the guy next to him among other things,  Without all the time together, they've struggled more.  There are many players over the years who they sign and then play better than they ever have prior.  Then their contract runs out and because of the elevated play, some other team offers them a bigger contract, they bolt, and then crash back to earth again.  Meanwhile Belichick signed another cheap replacement and repeats the same thing.

 

Actually the Bills have followed  somewhat of a similar path too on both lines in particular.  Last year the O lineman signed all worked out, this year everyone was excited about the D linemen signed, (everyone stating we will be stronger than last year) so far have struggled to some level.  Maybe for the same reasons??  Will see if second half shows improvement??

 

 

Brady was what attracted the mid level FAs.  The Pats and TB went head to head on Fournette, where is he?  The Pats didn't get an influx of underpriced short term FAs to buoy their roster this year because for most of the time they were shopping playing with Stidham and Hoyer.  Take out Brady, it's just a cold weather city with a demanding coach.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

15 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

Brady was what attracted the mid level FAs.  The Pats and TB went head to head on Fournette, where is he?  The Pats didn't get an influx of underpriced short term FAs to buoy their roster this year because for most of the time they were shopping playing with Stidham and Hoyer.  Take out Brady, it's just a cold weather city with a demanding coach.

 

That's all true, but regardless they did seem to get these mid level FA to play better than they had prior.  This year no time for that.  Add to they seemed to have led the league in opt outs too.

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Was reading an article in the Athletic today that said a big part of the Pats issue this year is due to no off season work outs, pre-season etc.  While the article stated every team was affected the same way, it went on to talk about how the "Pats way" is to sign these mid level cheap FA's but then get them on board with the "Pat's way"  i.e. better understanding of every other players role on every play, not just their own or the guy next to him among other things,  Without all the time together, they've struggled more.  There are many players over the years who they sign and then play better than they ever have prior.  Then their contract runs out and because of the elevated play, some other team offers them a bigger contract, they bolt, and then crash back to earth again.  Meanwhile Belichick signed another cheap replacement and repeats the same thing.

 

Actually the Bills have followed  somewhat of a similar path too on both lines in particular.  Last year the O lineman signed all worked out, this year everyone was excited about the D linemen signed, (everyone stating we will be stronger than last year) so far have struggled to some level.  Maybe for the same reasons??  Will see if second half shows improvement??

 

I've asserted something similar in other threads.

 

The Bills D - like the Pats D - was very reliant on good discipline and teamwork.   Last year on the Bills, guys communicated well and didn't often miss their assignments.  That was a tribute to the coaching of McD and Frazier.  We're not seeing the same discipline and teamwork this season.  Guys miss assignments, over-pursue, etc.  

 

This year, thanks to COVID, the NFL is more like sandlot football than it's been in many, many years.  In sandlot, it's less about discipline and teamwork and more about athleticism.  The team with the most & best playmakers wins.   The Bills don't have a ton of true, athletically gifted playmakers on defense and it shows.  

 

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

Full Disclosure:

 

When I lived in Northern Ohio in the early to mid-90s I liked what Beli was doing with the Browns and...and...I rooted for them.

 

I mean, they just weren't a threat to us, even when they were good.  

 

Come on, man.