The hyde hit

[Alphadawg7]

51 minutes ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

Man I know that was a potentially game altering  penalty but I don't think I can name another play this season on defense that got me more excited. Looked shoulder to helmet to me, don't like the call, but I get why they call it.

 

Its correct call per the language of the rule, but I don't agree fully with the rule.  That was an example where the defender turned his head away and body away from the defender.  Only option to is to not touch him at all and let hm catch basically there.  

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

He was defenseless, but the hit was nowhere near the helmet or even the neck...

 

 

 

Are we talking about the same play? 

[klos63]

42 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

yes let them catch it is the only play there according to “soft ass rules” 

even then if it looks hard they will throw the flag.      It’s pure nonsense 

it's hardly 'pure nonsense' it's making the difficult balance between the safety of a defenseless receiver and the ability to make a strong defensive play. It's worthwhile, even though they are difficult calls.

[Big Blitz]

17 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

This is literally a textbook penalty.

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

 

PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

1. Players in a defenseless posture are:
   1. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)
   2. A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him

 

He's clearly a defenseless player, and Hyde clearly put his shoulder into his helmet. 10 years ago that would've been a great defensive play. Nowadays that's a penalty 100% of the time. 

 

 

And if the NFL can't explain what the defender is supposed to do there, then it shouldn't be a rule.

 

Literally everyone is "defenseless" going to make a catch.

 

Keep the rule at hitting with your head or hitting at the opponent's head.  That's it.  

[Neo]

21 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

This is literally a textbook penalty.

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

 

PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

1. Players in a defenseless posture are:
   1. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)
   2. A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him

 

He's clearly a defenseless player, and Hyde clearly put his shoulder into his helmet. 10 years ago that would've been a great defensive play. Nowadays that's a penalty 100% of the time. 

I’ll agree when you explain how it was unnecessary ... whatever the heck that means ... by providing the alternative.   He was a vector, who intersected another vector, each at speed.

 

Word nine.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Neo

[Meatloaf63]

Just now, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

 

 

Are we talking about the same play? 

Yes initial contact is the chest when the body folds and then helmets glance off each other that’s not helmet to helmet, there is another angle that clearly shows this is the case

[JerseyBills]

54 minutes ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

Man I know that was a potentially game altering  penalty but I don't think I can name another play this season on defense that got me more excited. Looked shoulder to helmet to me, don't like the call, but I get why they call it.

Whatever adjustments were made in half 2 , really brought out the best in this defense.  You can see the confidence oozing. 

Ride that momentum!!

 

[gobills404]

I'm no expert but to me that looks like Hyde leading with his shoulder into Perrimans chest.

Edited October 26, 2020 by gobills404

[MJS]

You can't hit a receiver in the head like that regardless of what body part you use. But it wasn't dirty at all. One foot lower and it would have been perfect. These defenders have small targets.

 

But I thought it was a good hit and the penalty yardage was worth it. Better that than giving up a big chunk play.

Just now, gobills404 said:

I'm no expert but to me that looks like Hyde leading with his shoulder into Perriamns chest.

If you watch it he clearly makes contact with the helmet. Even in this picture his shoulder is in his facemask.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

And if the NFL can't explain what the defender is supposed to do there, then it shouldn't be a rule.

 

Literally everyone is "defenseless" going to make a catch.

 

Keep the rule at hitting with your head or hitting at the opponent's head.  That's it.  

 

 

 

In this situation, the defender can aim the tackle somewhere below the receivers neck/head area. Hyde could hit him in his midsection and would still have a good chance of dislodging the ball 

 

This was a good call, and IMO the rule is a good thing for the game. Do we want more violent hits to players heads and more concussions?

[MJS]

13 minutes ago, CLTbills said:

Brutal hit. I don't like the fact that that's an "illegal" hit, but I understand it. He hit him in the chest with his shoulder. I mean what's the alternative? Just let the guy catch it?

He made contact with his helmet and facemask as well. It was the right call.

 

It was ALMOST a clean hit. Just needed it a bit lower.

 

[HappyDays]

24 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

This is literally a textbook penalty.

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/

 

PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE

It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

1. Players in a defenseless posture are:
   1. A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture)
   2. A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player

Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him

 

He's clearly a defenseless player, and Hyde clearly put his shoulder into his helmet. 10 years ago that would've been a great defensive play. Nowadays that's a penalty 100% of the time. 

 

Okay, so is the hit to Singletary earlier in the game also a penalty? If not, what's the difference? Once the receiver has had a chance to catch the ball you're allowed to hit them. Hyde didn't impede his ability to catch the ball, he just hit him hard.

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

You can't hit a receiver in the head like that regardless of what body part you use. But it wasn't dirty at all. One foot lower and it would have been perfect. These defenders have small targets.

 

But I thought it was a good hit and the penalty yardage was worth it. Better that than giving up a big chunk play.

 

 

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

 

 

In this situation, the defender can aim the tackle somewhere below the receivers neck/head area. Hyde could hit him in his midsection and would still have a good chance of dislodging the ball 

 

This was a good call, and IMO the rule is a good thing for the game. Do we want more violent hits to players heads and more concussions?

 

These are both good takes

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He was a defenseless WR. Call was accurate.

 

I'll ask you the same question then - was Singletary a defenseless receiver when he got hit hard earlier in the game?

[Teddy KGB]

5 minutes ago, klos63 said:

it's hardly 'pure nonsense' it's making the difficult balance between the safety of a defenseless receiver and the ability to make a strong defensive play. It's worthwhile, even though they are difficult calls.

Put flags on them so you can feel better about yourself.  
 

It’s nonsense, pure nonsense.   

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'll ask you the same question then - was Singletary a defenseless receiver when he got hit hard earlier in the game?

Singletary didn't get hit in the head and neck area, did he?

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

11 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Nope. His shoulder contact was upper chest. The guy was making a catch. It's football. Micah's job is not to let him make a catch and congratulating him. 

 

Highlighting a different section of the rule:

 

Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck

 

I can't believe we have people arguing that this is a bad call. It's a textbook penalty, and close to being suspension worthy. Hyde will probably get a fine

[bigK14094]

Could Hyde have hit him low and flipped him?  Would that have been legal?

[TroutDog]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

It's not just about the helmet

 

 

1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder

 

 

I did not see him hit his head or neck area. Did he? Perhaps I saw it wrong. He hit him hard, leading with his shoulder. 
 

Also, how can a defensive back control, in less than a tenth of a second, how a receiver adjusts their body when already in the process of hitting/tackling?

[Simon]

Just now, TroutDog said:

I did not see him hit his head or neck area. Did he? Perhaps I saw it wrong. He hit him hard, leading with his shoulder. 
 

Also, how can a defensive back control, in less than a tenth of a second, how a receiver adjusts their body when already in the process of hitting/tackling?

 

Yeah, I thought his shoulder slid up around his head.

It's a really difficult rule for DB's to deal with. I am fully supportive of protecting guys' heads but I also wonder if the league hasn't erred a bit too much on the side of caution.