TroutDog Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Real McNasty said: This is exactly my take as well Trout. It was an extremely fast play that Darnold placed his WR at risk. I really don't know what Hyde could have done differently other than not hitting him and letting him score. If he gets fined for this it is an abomination. 3
billsfan89 Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 It's a BS penalty but that's the way the NFL calls it. However it did cause the reciever to drop the pass which would have been more yards than the 15 yard penalty.
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, TroutDog said: In the replay there was no helmet to helmet contact: it was literally a text book hit. He led with his shoulder and worked to disrupt the receiver with a hard hit. Should not have been a penalty. If it is, then the NFL should just get rid of the entire defensive backfield. This is literally a textbook penalty. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/ PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture. Players in a defenseless posture are: A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture) A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is: forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him He's clearly a defenseless player, and Hyde clearly put his shoulder into his helmet. 10 years ago that would've been a great defensive play. Nowadays that's a penalty 100% of the time. 1 2
Ray Finkel Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 31 minutes ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said: Man I know that was a potentially game - altering penalty but I don't think I can name another play this season on defense that got me more excited. Looked shoulder to helmet to me, don't like the call, but I get why they call it. That was a great hit. Unfortunately when a player is hit hard they throw a flag. The ref said he was defenseless but Hyde has the right to hit him. This league is becoming a joke.
familykwi Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 25 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said: Tackling hard is a penalty now The game has changed. Hard hits are still legal. Because you don’t want the outcome does not make it all good. Micah was too late to make a clean play on the ball and too early to let the receiver protect himself. The refs job is to administer the consequence when it’s not right. That call was 100% appropriate. Every coach in the league wants that called if it’s their receiver.
WideNine Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 It was a good hit, he lead with his shoulder and was aiming for the ball, the receiver ducked down when he knew he was going to get hit which made it look closer to the head than it was. I would say the same thing if it was a Bills player catching the ball... would not like it, but could not fault a safety for trying to knock the ball out with a hit. Football is still a tough game, and whenever a player goes down after a big hit the flags launch on automatic. Defensive play today was better, but it was the Jets. 2
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 I thought it was a clean hit one of those judgemental calls how many Bills players get nailed like that and don’t get the call? Total BS imo 2
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 27 minutes ago, matter2003 said: He just lit up that receiver. I mean I get they are trying to protect the player but what is the defender supposed to do? Let them catch it?? Totally!!! I hated the call. I really think he hit him hard, but clean. 2
TroutDog Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: This is literally a textbook penalty. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/ PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture. Players in a defenseless posture are: A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture) A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is: forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him He's clearly a defenseless player, and Hyde clearly put his shoulder into his helmet. 10 years ago that would've been a great defensive play. Nowadays that's a penalty 100% of the time. Like I said, if that’s the rule, just get rid of the defensive backfield. Their helmets did not make contact. So now we’re saying you can’t hit hard???? Don't get me wrong: I am 100% in support of protecting all players but hard hits in a violent game happen and should not be penalized. 3
Simon Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 Just now, TroutDog said: Like I said, if that’s the rule, just get rid of the defensive backfield. Their helmets did not make contact. It's not just about the helmet 1. forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder 1
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TroutDog said: Like I said, if that’s the rule, just get rid of the defensive backfield. Their helmets did not make contact. So now we’re saying you can’t hit hard???? Don't get me wrong: I am 100% in support of protecting all players but hard hits in a violent game happen and should not be penalized. I'd recommend reading the rule that I posted. Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is: forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck Hyde put his shoulder into the receivers neck/head area. It does NOT need to be helmet on helmet to be a penalty. This was 100% the correct call. The NFL will probably add this hit to their video of examples of illegal hits... Edited October 25, 2020 by DabillsDaBillsDaBills typo
BillsPride12 Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 In today's NFL if you hit a guy too hard it's a penalty
CLTbills Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 Brutal hit. I don't like the fact that that's an "illegal" hit, but I understand it. He hit him in the chest with his shoulder. I mean what's the alternative? Just let the guy catch it?
The Frankish Reich Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: It's a BS penalty but that's the way the NFL calls it. However it did cause the reciever to drop the pass which would have been more yards than the 15 yard penalty. True. Setting aside this particular play for the moment, this is a problem in the NFL: if a really hard hit was likely to dislodge the ball, and if the catch would have been for well over 15 yards, the incentive structure is messed up. We see the same thing with some PI calls -- DB is clearly beat, he brings down the WR before he can catch an run with it. The NBA tried to deal with these situations with the "clear path" fouls, which really pleased no one. It works in the NHL with penalty shots, which come pretty close to restoring the pre-penalty status quo: breakaway with only the goaltender between the skater and the goal. Maybe soccer too? I'm not sure what the fix is in other sports. Edited October 25, 2020 by The Frankish Reich
Haslett_Stomp Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) NFL should either return to leather helmets or the single bar on the face mask to reduce the violent hits, if that is what they are trying to do. However, that would take a generation to implement, starting with Pee Wee leagues. Edited October 25, 2020 by Haslett_Stomp
Ethan in Cleveland Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 He was a defenseless WR. Call was accurate. i thought the PI call was garbage. 13 minutes ago, Ray Finkel said: That was a great hit. Unfortunately when a player is hit hard they throw a flag. The ref said he was defenseless but Hyde has the right to hit him. This league is becoming a joke. You are missing the point. Hard hits like the shot Gilliam took are prefectly legal. Defenseless WR is not. Case in point only one of those two plays resulted in a payer getting hurt.
Mark Vader Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 Regardless of the call, I will be very upset if Hyde gets suspended for that hit.
Meatloaf63 Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: This is literally a textbook penalty. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-video-rulebook/defenseless-player/ PLAYERS IN A DEFENSELESS POSTURE It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture. Players in a defenseless posture are: A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass (passing posture) A receiver attempting to catch a pass who has not had time to clearly become a runner. If the player is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is: forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck, and regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him He's clearly a defenseless player, and Hyde clearly put his shoulder into his helmet. 10 years ago that would've been a great defensive play. Nowadays that's a penalty 100% of the time. He was defenseless, but the hit was nowhere near the helmet or even the neck... 2 1
Green Lightning Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: I'd recommend reading the rule that I posted. Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is: forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even if the initial contact is lower than the player’s neck Hyde put his shoulder into the receivers neck/head area. It does NOT need to be helmet on helmet to be a penalty. This was 100% the correct call. The NFL will probably add this hit to their video of examples of illegal hits... Nope. His shoulder contact was upper chest. The guy was making a catch. It's football. Micah's job is not to let him make a catch and congratulating him. 1
WideNine Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 I get the defenseless player thing... reason why there is a fair catch for kicks because the guy is focused on making the play. In the case of a receiver I just don't like it, does the defender have to just pull up and let him complete the reception and begin RAC then hit him instead of breaking up the catch. There may be a fine for Hyde, but tough call for a safety who is normally coming at a receiver from a deep angle instead of trailing in coverage... let a player make a reception or lay a hit on him to break up the pass. Hyde was covering a lot of ground too to close with that receiver and was looking to time his hit... to break up the catch. Clearly there were a lot of Bills players wanting to verify that the Jets player was OK...
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