Daboll and the state of the Bills

[appoo]

6 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

Daboll has never had a top 10 offense in this league for a reason.

 

And yes we statistically had a good game on paper and were #15 overall heading into this week, but it's crystal clear his gimmicky offense has peaked and ran it's course.

 

Also somebody needs to tell him the jet sweep stuff just isn't going to work and every time midget mckenzie is out there now teams know what's coming which is why we took a huge loss today on one of them that derailed a drive shades of last year.

 

Because he's only been in the league for 2 years as OC? Both of which were with Josh Allen?

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

They could be multiple like they preached for 3 years. How about lining up in run formations and run the ball and then pass out of them too. Daboll just wants run out of 3 and four wide and its not working.

 

 

It wouldn't make a difference. With this interior they can't run inside. With these backs they can't run outside.

Just now, appoo said:

 

Because he's only been in the league for 2 years as OC? Both of which were with Josh Allen?

 

Not true he has been an OC three other places - Miami, Cleveland and KC.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It wouldn't make a difference. With this interior they can't run inside. With these backs they can't run outside.

 

 

If we used someone in the fullback position that would help a lot. Also as i pointed out in the original Beane made a ton of mistakes in personnel this offseason.

 

 

[appoo]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It wouldn't make a difference. With this interior they can't run inside. With these backs they can't run outside.

 

Not true he has been an OC three other places - Miami, Cleveland and KC.

I had completely forgotten that he had an OC career before the Patriots. Not sure I hold it against him for not having good offenses with Mangini and Sparano, especially when you consider that he was in his 30 still. 

 

So I guess he's only been an OC in the League since working with the Pats & Belichak in 2013, since 2018

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

for what?? Im right about this situation and its simple as  that

 

 

 

No, you're not.

You have an opinion about this situation; it doesn't mean you're right.

It just so happens than an awful lot of knowledgeable people disagree with your opinion.

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

If we used someone in the fullback position that would help a lot. Also as i pointed out in the original Beane made a ton of mistakes in personnel this offseason.

 

 

 

And on the bolded we agree. 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, High Football IQ said:

 

At the end of the day if you need to rely on premotion crap on just about every snap to move the football it shows how subpar the players we have truly are, particularly at RB and oline blocking.

We do lack at run blocking but presnap motion is also a staple of good NFL offenses like KC

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

My only issue with Daboll is the playcalling in the redzone; usually one of our strengths.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

400+ yards offense today.  Please stop.  Daboll is fine.   Geez.   

 

Gotta throw and defend the pass to win the SB in this league now.   Run and stop the run like its 1973 looks nice and makes you feel like a man, until you play the top 5 teams , then you get steamrollered by big time, efficient passing games led by great passers and encouraged by today's rules.  

 

Again,  400+ yards offense , none in garbage time.   Nuf said.  Move on.   

 

Daboll is not fine. His play calling and game plan the last 3 weeks has been atrocious.  Total yards dont win football games, points do.  Daboll stupidity cost us dearly many times and killed scoring drives or put us into FG instead of TDs...and against the worst team in the NFL.  We scored 18 points,  Anyone happy with 18 points against the Jets needs re-examine what a good outing looks like.

 

The 3rd and 1 RPO was utterly stupid.  We spent a 3rd on a power RB.  We have a beast at QB who has converted just about every 3rd and 1, or 4th and 1 he has ever tried over three years on a sneak.  You line up and pound the ball with your back or let your QB sneak it.  You dont lineup in shotgun on a CRITICAL 3rd and 1 and do a stupid RPO that takes so long to develop and starts 5 yards behind the LOS.

 

Daboll is OBSESSED with trickery and forgets the fundamentals that are still needed to win games.  We beat the lowly Jets by one score, this was not a good day for Daboll..  

Edited October 25, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Daboll is not fine. His play calling and game plan the last 3 weeks has been atrocious.  Total yards dont win football games, points do.  Daboll stupidity cost us dearly many times and killed scoring drives or put us into FG instead of TDs...and abasing the worst team in the NFL.  We scored 18 points,  Anyone happy with 18 points against the Jets needs re-examine what a good outing looks like.

 

The 3rd and 1 RPO was utterly stupid.  We spent a 3rd on a power RB.  We have a beast at QB who has converted just about every 3rd and 1, or 4th and 1 he has ever tried over three years on a sneak.  You line up and pound the ball with your back or let your QB sneak it.  You dont lineup on a CRITICAL 3rd and 1 and do a stupid RPO that takes so long to develop and starts 5 yards behind the LOS.

 

Daboll is OBSESSED with trickery and forgets the fundamentals that are still needed to win games.  We beat the lowly Jets by one score, this was not a good day for Daboll..  

 

Meh. I think Daboll called a reasonably good game. He did have some bad calls - the pop pass to McKenzie was a poor choice but if Gabe and Kroft execute we have two TDs second half. I thought featuring Beasley was absolutely the right decision in this game and I liked that. 

 

As the power back we drafted in the third..... he might have power but if we handed to him on the 3rd and 1 he would reach the line of scrimmage at about lunchtime tomorrow.

 

(I will say I thought Daboll did a bad job against KC and a not great job against Tennessee. He was better today aside from one or two brain farts. It was execution more than scheme today IMO).

Edited October 25, 2020 by GunnerBill

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Meh. I think Daboll called a reasonably good game. He did have some bad calls - the pop pass to McKenzie was a poor choice but if Gabe and Kroft execute we have two TDs second half. I thought featuring Beasley was absolutely the right decision in this game and I liked that. 

 

As the power back we drafted in the third..... he might have power but if we handed to him on the 3rd and 1 he would reach the line of scrimmage at about lunchtime tomorrow.

 

You say that but Moss ran pretty well today.  Personally, the ONLY play call there in a critical 3rd and 1 is to sneak Josh. It has literally a success rate over 95%.  I saw a stat somewhere that showed in 3 years hes only been stopped like once or twice.  Including the sneak on down and 2 to go.  There is no higher percentage play there, and that was a vital 3rd down there.  

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

So I didn't love all the playcalling today. The McKenzie pop pass that was snuffed out was a bad call.... but I struggle to blame him for Davis not lining up correctly and Tyler Kroft tripping over Daniel Jones's laces.

THIS. Game of inches and slim margins. On a different day, that's 14 more points and we're talking about a much better game for the offense/play-calling/overall team. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You say that but Moss ran pretty well today.  Personally, the ONLY play call there in a critical 3rd and 1 is to sneak Josh. It has literally a success rate over 95%.  I saw a stat somewhere that showed in 3 years hes only been stopped like once or twice.  Including the sneak on down and 2 to go.  There is no higher percentage play there, and that was a vital 3rd down there.  

 

Yea I'd have preferred a sneak. I was obviously being sarcastic about Moss. Actually if Josh read it right and gave it to Moss he would have walked for the first and it was a ballgame. 

 

Still I didn't mind seeing our D close one out. Think long term that might do their psyche some good and rebuild a bit of confidence.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Meh. I think Daboll called a reasonably good game. He did have some bad calls - the pop pass to McKenzie was a poor choice but if Gabe and Kroft execute we have two TDs second half. I thought featuring Beasley was absolutely the right decision in this game and I liked that. 

 

As the power back we drafted in the third..... he might have power but if we handed to him on the 3rd and 1 he would reach the line of scrimmage at about lunchtime tomorrow.

 

(I will say I thought Daboll did a bad job against KC and a not great job against Tennessee. He was better today aside from one or two brain farts. It was execution more than scheme today IMO).

He does not know how to beat cover2 zone

 

he called corner for Diggs on the one Allen threw that almost went for INT...that’s dumb playcalling 

 

Daboll and run blocking are biggest issues w the offense 

[Alphadawg7]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I'd have preferred a sneak. I was obviously being sarcastic about Moss. Actually if Josh read it right and gave it to Moss he would have walked for the first and it was a ballgame. 

 

Still I didn't mind seeing our D close one out. Think long term that might do their psyche some good and rebuild a bit of confidence.

 

The RPO out of shotgun takes too long to develop, and yeah its easy to sit above and see the whole field and know Moss can get that, but when your players are standing in the trenches needing to make a split second decision, its not so easy.  It was just a dumb call to start a run 5 yards behind the LOS on a delay through a RPO with 3rd and 1.  

 

Thats my biggest issue with Daboll.  He tries way too much trickery, and tries to run too much like that.  There are times in the game you need to be men and just go get the yard rather than try and finesse the yard.  We have a wrecking ball at QB which should have been the call.  

Edited October 26, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

He does not know how to beat cover2 zone

 

he called corner for Diggs on the one Allen threw that almost went for INT...that’s dumb playcalling 

 

Daboll and run blocking are biggest issues w the offense 

 

Run blocking is by far the biggest issue. I think Daboll had some poor calls but he had some good ones too. Like most OCs most weeks. It was certainly better than his last two efforts and I think he generally takes a bit of heat that should go on the players. Some of the penalties and the drops and the tripping themselves up is just bad football you can't have.

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The RPO out of shotgun takes too long to develop, and yeah its easy to sit above and see the whole field and know Moss can get that, but when your players are standing in the trenches needing to make a split second decision, its not so easy.  It was just a dumb call to start a run 5 yards behind the LOS on a delay through a RPO with 3rd and 1.  

 

Thats my biggest issue with Daboll.  He tries way too much trickery, and tries to run too much like that.  There are times in the game you need to be men and just go get the yard and try and finesse the yard.  We have a wrecking ball at QB which should have been the call.  

 

It is also easy to call QB sneaks sitting at home. 

 

I don't think Daboll is great. But he gets too much blame from fans for player errors IMO. We hurt ourselves with penalties and execution that I struggle to pin on the playcaller.

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He does not know how to beat cover2 zone

 

he called corner for Diggs on the one Allen threw that almost went for INT...that’s dumb playcalling 

 

Daboll and run blocking are biggest issues w the offense 

 

I agree.  And that concerns me.  Titans put blue print out that Chiefs and Jets showed they paid attention.  I mean Jets are a doormat and even they were able to disrupt the rhythm of this offense with it.  The top teams like Titans and Chiefs already had great success against us with it, and we still also have Steelers and Ravens who both have great defenses who can role the same game plan out. 

 

Daboll couldn't even adjust to beat the Jets version of it convincingly.  

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Run blocking is by far the biggest issue. I think Daboll had some poor calls but he had some good ones too. Like most OCs most weeks. It was certainly better than his last two efforts and I think he generally takes a bit of heat that should go on the players. Some of the penalties and the drops and the tripping themselves up is just bad football you can't have.

 

It is also easy to call QB sneaks sitting at home. 

 

I don't think Daboll is great. But he gets too much blame from fans for player errors IMO. We hurt ourselves with penalties and execution that I struggle to pin on the playcaller.

 

Its easy to call because Josh has converted every down and 1 or down and 2 sneak except like one or two over 3 years, and they have called it a lot.  So yeah, pretty easy to call a go to play with like a 95-98% success rate on a critical 3rd and 1 to pretty much seal a win.  

[GoBills808]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I agree.  And that concerns me.  Titans put blue print out that Chiefs and Jets showed they paid attention.  I mean Jets are a doormat and even they were able to disrupt the rhythm of this offense with it.  The top teams like Titans and Chiefs already had great success against us with it, and we still also have Steelers and Ravens who both have great defenses who can role the same game plan out. 

 

Daboll couldn't even adjust to beat the Jets version of it convincingly.  

His playcalling suggests he is running out of ideas...they can’t go back to QB runs and zone read. They will get buried

 

Daboll has not proven adaptable to very basic NFL coverage schemes 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its easy to call because Josh has converted every down and 1 or down and 2 sneak except like one or two over 3 years, and they have called it a lot.  So yeah, pretty easy to call a go to play with like a 95-98% success rate on a critical 3rd and 1 to pretty much seal a win.  

 

I have agreed I'd have preferred that call. But it wasn't the only call that could get it done and actually if we hand off to the back Daboll's call gets it done. Again it is easy every time a play doesn't work to go "play caller" I tend to think that is over simplistic.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

His playcalling suggests he is running out of ideas...they can’t go back to QB runs and zone read. They will get buried

 

Daboll has not proven adaptable to very basic NFL coverage schemes 

 

Daboll is just trying to much "magic" out there.  He needs to learn how to get the team into a rhythm.  I mean we are not running much and when we do, its often out of unconventional formations.  

 

Its like he just out thinks himself too much or gets too gimmicky at times.