All-22 Grades for Bills/Chiefs (The Athletic)

[Stank_Nasty]

31 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Yea, Mahomes was fine.  He missed a couple throws so I’m not going to mock him because he didn’t go 26/26 ....

 

That said, Mahomes had a running game & Kelce... two things Allen didn’t have that clearly made a difference.  
 

Allen was trying to push the ball down the field, in wet conditions, against a flooded zone while our offense was completely one dimensional.  
 

He could’ve helped himself by hitting a wide open TD pass to Diggs, and potential TD pass to Singletary... those are 2019 Allen misses that need to be cleaned up.  
 

 

This is all fair. I agree with all of it. But I’m not gonna pretend like he was any good or that Mahomes wasn’t good(he was). Alleb really wasn’t on the mark and I agree that context is needed. 
 

An interesting tidbit about the “missed” throw to Motor. Chris Simms was breaking down the game the other day and said “Singletary f***** him over” on that play. I guess it’s well understood that was gonna be and should have been a wheel route and in that situation. Simms claimed Allen put that ball exactly where it should have been. I found that interesting. I know at the time I was super annoyed by that miss. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Royale with Cheese]

54 minutes ago, gordong said:

 what pressure??? 

 

Are you saying Mahomes left clean pockets for no reason?  Mahomes made multiple plays outside of the pocket.

 

Just because we are bad at getting pressure doesn't mean we never get pressure....it's just few and far between.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

I thought Allen played fine last week but was too timid to say so.  Glad somebody else noticed that.

That opening drive was awful.  Besides that I could tolerate his play but I think he would admit he was a little off. Please Sean move Tremaine outside next year where he belongs and find a true Mike. This would allow us to return to the 4-3. Oliver should NEVER be forced to play 1 tech, EVER!  More Zimmer will help until Star returns next year. Ford & Winters are completely worthless. And Klein isn't worth commenting. 

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That opening drive was awful.  Besides that I could tolerate his play but I think he would admit he was a little off. Please Sean move Tremaine outside next year where he belongs and find a true Mike. This would allow us to return to the 4-3. Oliver should NEVER be forced to play 1 tech, EVER!  More Zimmer will help until Star returns next year. Ford & Winters are completely worthless. And Klein isn't worth commenting. 

i'm 100% convinced Zo coming off his couch is a better option

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

This is all fair. I agree with all of it. But I’m not gonna pretend like he was any good or that Mahomes wasn’t good(he was). Alleb really wasn’t on the mark and I agree that context is needed. 
 

An interesting tidbit about the “missed” throw to Motor. Chris Simms was breaking down the game the other day and said “Singletary f***** him over” on that play. I guess it’s well understood that was gonna be and should have been a wheel route and in that situation. Simms claimed Allen put that ball exactly where it should have been. I found that interesting. I know at the time I was super annoyed by that miss. 

Interesting... Certainly makes sense, and I respect Simms in his analysis.  
 

If true, yet another reason why Yeldon should be active.   If Singletary is messing up in the pass game, along with providing nothing to a run game that’s already struggling due to the OL, than we need players who will make plays.  

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That opening drive was awful.  Besides that I could tolerate his play but I think he would admit he was a little off. Please Sean move Tremaine outside next year where he belongs and find a true Mike. This would allow us to return to the 4-3. Oliver should NEVER be forced to play 1 tech, EVER!  More Zimmer will help until Star returns next year. Ford & Winters are completely worthless. And Klein isn't worth commenting. 

 

John Brown had a pretty brutal drop on 3rd down on the first drive. If he makes a routine catch there we would've had a first down

 

Overall I don't think Allen was as bad as the boxscore looks, or that Mahomes was as good as the boxscore looks. 

 

Allen was under constant pressure and had to throw the ball away a number of times. There were a few bad drops, and a few inaccurate balls that his WR could have bailed him out on, and there were a few flat out terrible throws. Allen lost a lot of yards to defensive penalties (holding or DPI). 

 

Mahomes had a very clean pocket for most of the night. He made some bad throws that his guys caught (Kelce catch for example). Not to say that Mahomes was bad, but he had a very pedestrian night. 

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

John Brown had a pretty brutal drop on 3rd down on the first drive. If he makes a routine catch there we would've had a first down

 

Overall I don't think Allen was as bad as the boxscore looks, or that Mahomes was as good as the boxscore looks. 

 

Allen was under constant pressure and had to throw the ball away a number of times. There were a few bad drops, and a few inaccurate balls that his WR could have bailed him out on, and there were a few flat out terrible throws. Allen lost a lot of yards to defensive penalties (holding or DPI). 

 

Mahomes had a very clean pocket for most of the night. He made some bad throws that his guys caught (Kelce catch for example). Not to say that Mahomes was bad, but he had a very pedestrian night. 

Or for example last drive 3rd quarter... 

 

Moss 2 yard run

Allen pass 7 yards and kroft couldn't get the first down

Moss no gain

4th down they were going for it. False start center 

[Big Turk]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

Admittedly, I am far from an expert when it comes to defenses and where players play.

 

My questions:

 

Is this a Frazier problem or is it a McDermott problem?

And/or - is this a Beane problem because we don't have the right (or right kinds of) players on the roster?

 

Thank you!

 

Star played a very important role in this defense and once he opted out we were kind of screwed since we didn't have another player that is good at what he does...namely eat up blocks and take on double teams.  Hard to blame Beane since free agency occurred far before the opt out period, it's not like he knew Star wasn't going to be here this year.

[Teddy KGB]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Played fine?  He looked like a rookie and was terrible.  He regressed badly on the physical side of his game.  His accuracy went back to be wildly off.  

 

He did make some pre-snap reads that were impressive.

 

 

Why didn’t we get any hot Allen takes from you for the first 4 weeks ? 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Can someone explain to me how Vernon Butler at 330 lbs isn't a one technique?  Joe B said we didn't dress a single one technique.

 

 

Jordan Phillips is listed at 341 and he sure wasn't a 1-tech.

 

I'm just saying that weight alone doesn't make you one. Which is true.

 

It's where you play and I guess how well you play the 1-tech role. Haven't had much time this year at all to watch all-22 to know how well Butler might be playing it.

 

Here's Joe's explanation:  "Oliver, Quinton Jefferson, Vernon Butler and Justin Zimmer fit best in the three-technique defensive tackle role, so something had to give."

Edited October 23, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Is it just me or did the Bills do a much better job last year and the year before with showing simulated pressure, then backing off and maybe having a guy rush from a place that the offense wasn't expecting?

 

I seem to remember double A gap blitzes and simulated blitzes were a big problem for a lot of the teams they played.

 

 

Yeah, I've really noticed this too. I wonder if for some reason the new guys aren't as good at it or something?

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

Admittedly, I am far from an expert when it comes to defenses and where players play.

 

My questions:

 

Is this a Frazier problem or is it a McDermott problem?

And/or - is this a Beane problem because we don't have the right (or right kinds of) players on the roster?

 

Thank you!

 

 

Or an injury problem? Or a Star not here problem, which Beane couldn't really address because opting out came late, well after the best guys were long gone in free agency?

 

Or (and this is my estimation) is it complex, partly injuries, partly Star, partly personnel and partly failures one place in the D (Milano's absence, for instance) affecting other areas.

[Nihilarian]

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting!

 

As for Allen, its not unusual to see a QB have some overthrow issues early in a big game like that. Lots of QB's have that issue at times and he did get better as the game went on. I still feel there was just far, far to much responsibility of winning the game on his shoulders with very little from the Bills run game a horrid showing from the Buffalo defense.

 

That one play where Allen read the defense and made a call to change the play to find Diggs in man on the outside drew a PI penalty, rightfully so. Then, the most beautiful TD pass and catch by Diggs that was just amazing.

 

The game could have been won with 6 min left "IF" the Bills defense could have made a freaking stop. JMO

 

 

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

This is not what I have heard or saw in other reviews of the KC game.

 

 

According to Joe, Zimmer at 1-tech and Butler at 3-tech faced 10 designed runs and allowed 1.6 YPC. Wow!!!

 

Whereas when they flipped them, with Zimmer at 3-tech, they allowed 6.8 YPC.

 

This is worth looking at for the Bills.

[BillsFanSD]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That opening drive was awful.  

Two passes that were off-target but not terrible (i.e. not being thrown to defenders) and a perfect pass for a first down that was dropped.  That's now "awful" by any objective measure.  Three and outs sucks, but there's no need to exaggerate to make it anything more than a routine failed drive that all teams experience, usually multiple times per game.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

That opening drive was awful.  Besides that I could tolerate his play but I think he would admit he was a little off. Please Sean move Tremaine outside next year where he belongs and find a true Mike. This would allow us to return to the 4-3. Oliver should NEVER be forced to play 1 tech, EVER!  More Zimmer will help until Star returns next year. Ford & Winters are completely worthless. And Klein isn't worth commenting. 

 

 

As Joe pointed out, Tremaine played very well last year at MLB. The problem isn't his position.

[LABILLBACKER]

34 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Star played a very important role in this defense and once he opted out we were kind of screwed since we didn't have another player that is good at what he does...namely eat up blocks and take on double teams.  Hard to blame Beane since free agency occurred far before the opt out period, it's not like he knew Star wasn't going to be here this year.

I think 99% of Bills fans are coming to the realization that albeit not an elite player, Star was invaluable to this team. Asking Ed to play 3Tech is ridiculous. We don't have alot of options.  Other maybe Zimmer, no one has stepped up with the skillset to play 1Tech. So we beg Snacks, trade for a 1T or just wing it for the rest of the season? And we have  2 more years on Star's deal.

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Just because someone is big doesn't make them the type of player who can anchor and not be moved in the middle of the defense. It comes down to knowing how to use that weight effectively and gaining leverage. If a player doesn't have the ability to do that the player won't be effective there.

 

I mean yeah 330 lbs is a heavy weight but the 2 players double teaming him are about 650 lbs.

 

 

On a separate note, I don't get why the Bills didn't try and bring pressure until the end of the game when they had to. It was actually effective and some of their best plays on defense were when they brought extra guys instead of sitting back and letting Mahomes pick them apart of break contain and run.

We don't have elite or even good pass rushers on this team. And without a 1tech like Star this is compounded. If we don't blitz more we will get shredded. I would rather we at least be aggressive and increase our blitz volume and occasionally get burned, than to not blitz at all and watch qbs carve our zone up.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Yeah, I've really noticed this too. I wonder if for some reason the new guys aren't as good at it or something?

 

Several here and some of the guys from Cover1 have suggested that the Bills defensive play calls have become predictable

There's enough on film, apparently, that teams can make a good guess about what our coverage is actually gonna be

 

 

[Billl]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

The announcers mentioned many times that the rain was affecting Mahomes. He missed a bunch of throws too.

He’d have completed 28 passes on 26 attempts if he hadn’t missed a bunch of throws.  His biggest “miss” was still a completion.

[TwistofFate]

14 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I'm not lying to you....I have noticed this too.  I've wondered where it went as well...

I remember Belichick talking about this in his press conference before a match up. 

 

Basically stated the post snap movement made it difficult to know exactly what we were doing, mainly in part because of our safety tandem. 

 

I haven't seen much movement at all this year....especially not compared to what I'm used to seeing.  Looks like we are just lining up and saying, hi...here we are. 

 

It's very discouraging. 

 

 

Here's a link to the interview. 

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/12/20/21031657/new-england-patriots-bill-belichick-pre-snap-looks-buffalo-bills-defense-nfl-week-16

Edited October 24, 2020 by TwistofFate