Jobot Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 3 hours ago, PaattMaann said: how about that Oliver isnt as effective this season because hes being asked to play the 1-tech when he should be playing the 3-tech, the position we drafted him for? Can you elaborate? I'm not familiar with what this means but am interested.
DeltaDigital Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 Send them murphy and a 3rd... expect a christmas card in return.
Luka Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 What do you mean "versus?" Williams in the 1-tech and Oliver in the 3-tech. Oliver will need a 1-tech next to him or he will never be productive.
aristocrat Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said: You pay tax where you work. NFL players have to file tax returns in ~9 different states. Cowboys players have complained in the past, Texas has no state income tax but their training camp in Oxnard required them to pay California income tax. Most famous case is jeter. Never paid nys tax cause he had a Florida residency. New York tried to sue him and got laughed out of court. Yes they pay some local taxes on game checks but that’s why bonuses get paid early in the year outside of season thus not taxed by the teams state. Unless of course they reside there.
Utah John Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 It would be a two-fer. Trade for Williams to be the 1-tech, and he'd be better than anyone we have this year at 1-tech. Shift Oliver to 3-tech, where he belongs, and suddenly we get the guy we drafted playing the position we drafted him for. Our second round pick won't be very high in 2021 so I'd make the trade if it was available. We could have the interior D line set for three years to come. Worth it. 1
ctk232 Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, PaattMaann said: how about that Oliver isnt as effective this season because hes being asked to play the 1-tech when he should be playing the 3-tech, the position we drafted him for? It's amazing how many people don't even realize this - much less understand the nuance of 1T v 3T. He's not going to get the pass rush stats if he isn't even rushing the passer. It's not just Oliver, they're doing it with Jefferson, too. Someone we brought in as a hybrid DE/3TDT, not even remotely close to 1T responsibility. Evaluated within this context, the performances of Oliver are actually stronger. From a limited outside perspective it seems we're hurting so badly at 1T that we've converted two of the stronger 3Ts in the league (Oliver/Jefferson) to fill these roles. Hell, we all saw how Zimmer faired in his 1T snaps as well. Joe B coincidentally argues Zimmer actually did very well in his 1T/3T roles when paired with Butler, but I haven't watched his snaps as closely to say whether I'd agree. I'd be interested to see how the Zimmer/Butler/Jefferson/Oliver assignments play out on Sunday. At risk of looking past any opponent, it might still be the best way to trial run different interior roles among those guys. Via today's Athletic article Quote In an unusual move, the Bills did not dress a single one-technique defensive tackle against the Chiefs, opting to make Harrison Phillips a healthy scratch. Oliver, Quinton Jefferson, Vernon Butler and Justin Zimmer fit best in the three-technique defensive tackle role, so something had to give. The result was Oliver playing as the one-technique defensive tackle for the majority of his snaps. Of his 34 snaps, Oliver filled the one-technique role 67 percent of the time (23 snaps). That player is responsible for occupying multiple blockers and holding them at the line of scrimmage so that teammates around them have a free look at the running back. It’s why Star Lotulelei was such an important player to the Bills even in a limited role. On early downs, Lotulelei tended to make his teammates’ jobs easier. Against Kansas City, Oliver mostly paired with Jefferson. Oliver holds his spot better and is more effective against double teams than Jefferson is. Of Jefferson’s 11 snaps at one-technique, the Bills’ run defense was a complete disaster. Six of those 11 plays were designed rushing attempts by the Chiefs, on which they gained 64 yards for an average of 10.7 yards per carry. Half of those carries went for 8 yards or more. When the Bills lined Oliver up at one-technique, the defense still was vulnerable against the run, but not as much. On 13 designed runs with Oliver at one-technique, the Chiefs gained 89 yards (6.8 yards per carry). Oliver was clearly playing out of position all game, but the Bills went with it out of self-preservation. In his few three-technique snaps, Oliver mostly won his one-on-ones. Overall, he didn’t have enough opportunities to penetrate the backfield by the Bills’ design. Edited October 23, 2020 by ctk232 1
LABILLBACKER Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 33 minutes ago, Luka said: What do you mean "versus?" Williams in the 1-tech and Oliver in the 3-tech. Oliver will need a 1-tech next to him or he will never be productive. Exactly....this is Oliver + Williams. If Beane could pull this off I think it would definitely upgrade the play of our DT's. Of course we still need a pass rusher?
ganesh Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 To be honest, I think NFL is allowing a lot more holds to happen (no calls) which has increased offensive production, but also reduced the scope for sacks for DL
Hebert19 Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 4 hours ago, whatdrought said: Oliver progressed down the stretch last year and started looking better and we had high hopes coming into this year, but with the whole defense going to pot it’s been hard to really judge any specific player properly. Hes not playing next to star. He isn't the right guy to be the space eater. He's the guy to play next to the space eater
ProcessTruster Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, PaattMaann said: how about that Oliver isnt as effective this season because hes being asked to play the 1-tech when he should be playing the 3-tech, the position we drafted him for? yep. Oliver playing the Jeff Wright role. undersized for what he is asked to do and getting blown up most of the time by double teams. He must be saying to himself, "this is the sh-t I had to do in college... and these guys are way bigger and better... WTF?" Missing Star L very much he is. Beane drafted him to move him to 3 tech. Not happening until next year it seems.... Edited October 22, 2020 by ProcessTruster 1
ogham26 Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 if they could trade a 2nd for williams they would do it im sure. he would allow oliver to play the 3 and work off of him.
Dragoon Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 5 hours ago, colin said: he's big and talented, if that price was a 3rd, i'd do it in a new york minute. frankly, i am tempted for a 2nd Not sure they’d trade in division for a 2nd.
BUFFALOTONE Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 5 hours ago, MJS said: Has Ed Oliver been given more than a season and a hand full of games before being labeled a bust? No. No he hasn't. My god it is insane... guy was good last year and all of a sudden he’s the problem.
starrymessenger Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 I'm not sure Q. Williams solves the Bills problem long term. True he is very talented and he's being used mainly as a space eater/run stuffer, like Leonard Williams (and all other Jets DTs for that matter), but that's probably part the problem. He should be developed as a 3 tech - for him the logical model is A Donald/Geno Atkins (at least as to the majority of his snaps), not Snacks. All of his great college tape that got him drafted high was I thought from the 3tech, but Gregg likes to bring pressure off the edge not up the middle even though he doesn't have the horses to do it. It's a bit of an exaggeration but maybe long term Q needs a space eater next to him as much as Ed does. If Star returns or is replaced in his role and if Harry can come back I'd love to see Williams as part of a rotation with Oliver. Who says you can't have two guys who can bring pressure up the middle. That's the best place to bring it if you can.
Billever76 Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Penfield45 said: He’s playing in the wrong scheme along with Edmunds and half of our defense You are exactly right!...Edmunds should not be dropping back 25 yards to intermediate-deep middle on 3rd and longs....move edmunds to OLB and let him roam around the LOS and fire into the backfied at QBs.....edmunds should be attacking the qb or runner at most times as i feel he is a liability as a coverage lber
starrymessenger Posted October 22, 2020 Posted October 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, Billever76 said: You are exactly right!...Edmunds should not be dropping back 25 yards to intermediate-deep middle on 3rd and longs....move edmunds to OLB and let him roam around the LOS and fire into the backfied at QBs.....edmunds should be attacking the qb or runner at most times as i feel he is a liability as a coverage lber I agree. Lawrence Taylor showed what a world class athlete could do from the outside LB position in terms of aggressive play, bringing pressure etc...I would have Edmunds, who reminds me more of Taylor (in terms of natural ability/type) than Luke K forget about quarterbacking the D, reading and reacting etc... and just turn loose his phenomenal athleticism. If the problem is instead a lack of bad intentions, I would look to trade him asap and before it's too late. You need bad people to play this game right. 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Logic said: Honestly, I don't know that he's been substantially more impactful than Quinnen this season. Oliver is a plus run stopper, but so far just an average pass rusher. As I understand it, that's Q's story, too. Where I think Oliver may have an advantage over Williams is in the "hustle" department. His motor never stops. There's also at least a little reason to believe that he's still hampered by the leg injury he suffered earlier this year. Been less than average run stuffer this year, he needs a big guy next to him so he can make plays. Him and Phillips are too small to take on lineman AND make tackles.
PaattMaann Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 15 hours ago, Jobot said: Can you elaborate? I'm not familiar with what this means but am interested. Our D line has two different DT positions, meaning they are asked to do different things. The 1 tech is asked to eat up blocks and maintain the line of scrimmage / keep blockers from getting a free run into the second level (linebackers) - this is normally Star's role. The 3 tech is usually more aggressive at getting into the backfield and being a disrupter. Ed was drafted to be the 3 tech but since he is our best DT at doing the 1 tech job (because Star opted out) he is being asked to do that. 1
Bill from NYC Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 19 hours ago, JetsFan20 said: Quinnen is on the trade block. Jets asking for a 2nd round pick. Has Oliver been good for Buffalo? Do the Jets have Quinnen lining up as a DE in a 3/4? It looked that way to me. If so, he would be much better as a penetrating DT, based on what I have seen from him at Alabama.
Big Turk Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, PaattMaann said: how about that Oliver isnt as effective this season because hes being asked to play the 1-tech when he should be playing the 3-tech, the position we drafted him for? Yeah this is a problem....at 287 lbs no way he can handle being doubled. Edited October 23, 2020 by matter2003
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