Jauronimo Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 I won't pretend to have expertise on linebacker play but I can say that the people who do know the Xs and Os do not agree with the sentiment of this thread. Cover1, YardsPerPass, Lorenzo Alexander, and our own knowledgeable posters are all telling the same story on Edmunds; he is not the problem on this defense. He is in the right place, he is doing his job, and hes playing pretty well all things considered but acknowledge he has made some mistakes. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/10/23/21527770/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-lb-tremaine-edmunds I find sources like these more compelling than arguments like "Edmunds suckkssss!!!!11!!11!!!1" 1
BillsFan692 Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: I won't pretend to have expertise on linebacker play but I can say that the people who do know the Xs and Os do not agree with the sentiment of this thread. Cover1, YardsPerPass, Lorenzo Alexander, and our own knowledgeable posters are all telling the same story on Edmunds; he is not the problem on this defense. He is in the right place, he is doing his job, and hes playing pretty well all things considered but acknowledge he has made some mistakes. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/10/23/21527770/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-lb-tremaine-edmunds I find sources like these more compelling than arguments like "Edmunds suckkssss!!!!11!!11!!!1" 13 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: Yikes, you made the erroneous statement now it’s everyone else’s fault ? He made plenty of plays the last 2 seasons. He’s struggling right now, but you’re still dead wrong. I'm not really interested in continuing this argument anymore since the kings court has arrived and is giving me demerits for "political language" what????
DJB Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 27 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: We already expended a lot of capital on those 2 positions relatively recently, but aren't benefiting from it. We gave up a 2nd and two 4th round picks to get Reggie Ragland, who was supposed to be the epitome of everything Edmunds is not....an instinctive, natural mike linebacker who has instincts all day long and makes stops. We then gave him away for a 4th round pick. Then we have Ed Oliver: gave up the 9th overall pick for him. He's too small, easily moved off his spot at the NFL level. These misses hurt. You would think these guys would learn, eventually, that they aren't any more informed than anyone else and they should always avoid trading up. One guy isn't more special than another, especially when no one knows how well they are going to pan out. Ragland was before Bean so thats moot. Oliver was drafted as a 3 tech and we need a 1 tech. I think we all underestimated the value of Star whom we criticized. Regardless he could be upgraded as well. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: I think the intent of my statement was clear, the other readers of the thread can make their own determination as to whether or not Edmunds is a game changer. It's not reasonable to people to infer the "intent of your statement". What you said was very clear: On 10/22/2020 at 7:56 AM, BillsFan692 said: The fact is Edmunds hasnt made a single game-changing impact play for this team and we are in our 3rd season with him... Oh im sorry did you cite a game changing play that he made? Those statements can clearly be disproved by citing a single game changing play. Since Edmunds has in fact produced plays that are, on the face of it, game changers, it seems to me there ought to be a little burden of proof on YOU if you want to keep on with this - 19 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: Your list also does not contain the game, time the play was made, current score, etc. So you're asking me to do a LOT of work to back up a statement What's your point? You want to make a contention, and then when challenged to back it up, you don't want to do the work. Switching to "a game changer" is a different statement than you've been making. I think in general that's called "a back peddle". It also begs the question "what do you consider "a game changer"? You reject highlight reals, play breakdowns, etc. Why should it be on me, or anyone else, to put in the work to prove or disprove your contention? "I know you're white knighting but really, nobody has time for that malarkey." Yeah, No. Slapping a politicized label on someone's response and calling it "malarkey" is not a persuasive argument.
Jauronimo Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: I'm not really interested in continuing this argument anymore since the kings court has arrived and is giving me demerits for "political language" what????
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 13 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: I'm not really interested in continuing this argument anymore since the kings court has arrived and is giving me demerits for "political language" what???? "White knight" "social justice warrior" etc etc etc or their flip sides are all politicized terms that add no substance to discussion and polarize it. Members are asked to avoid. Hope this helps your puzzlement. It's really not hard; most folks on here manage. 1
Philly McButterpants Posted October 23, 2020 Posted October 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jauronimo said: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/10/23/21527770/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-lb-tremaine-edmunds All 22 analysis on Tremaine's play. I would encourage everyone to watch play #5 on this "highlight" reel. This is a perfect illustration of my frustration with Edmunds. He has 100% clear vision in to the backfield, see the ballhandler, and the hole. Does he use his superior speed and wingspan to fill the gap and force the runner to "make a business decision?" NO, he gets taken out of the play completely by a guy he should have fairly easily avoided. The all-22 writer "like his patience." This is why people say he has no "instinct." He should have been able to recognize the formation and the call and use his superior athletic skills to blow up that play. I don't even know WTF Klein is doing on this play. Edited October 23, 2020 by Philly McButterpants
LB48 Posted October 24, 2020 Author Posted October 24, 2020 10 hours ago, uticaclub said: Pro Bowl Replacement. Blake Bortles and Tyrod have made Pro Bowls, bar needs to be set higher. Very True! When the original players can't participate for any reason the find other players with decent stats to play. It's an Agents dream. 10 hours ago, uticaclub said: Pro Bowl Replacement. Blake Bortles and Tyrod have made Pro Bowls, bar needs to be set higher. 9 hours ago, BillsFan692 said: I agree with McDermott. LOL:) A statement from the HC like this seems to prove a point. 9 hours ago, Jauronimo said: I won't pretend to have expertise on linebacker play but I can say that the people who do know the Xs and Os do not agree with the sentiment of this thread. Cover1, YardsPerPass, Lorenzo Alexander, and our own knowledgeable posters are all telling the same story on Edmunds; he is not the problem on this defense. He is in the right place, he is doing his job, and hes playing pretty well all things considered but acknowledge he has made some mistakes. I never said "Edmunds Sucks". You're the type that over thinks a thread with a personal agenda. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/10/23/21527770/all-22-analysis-buffalo-bills-lb-tremaine-edmunds I find sources like these more compelling than arguments like "Edmunds suckkssss!!!!11!!11!!!1"
BillsFan692 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2020/10/23/whats-wrong-buffalo-bills-defense-tremaine-edmunds-struggles/3742226001/ "Edmunds has rarely made tackles or plays that are drive wreckers or game changers. Counting his 41 tackles this season, only 15 of his 277 career tackles have resulted in lost yardage, none this year. And while he doesn’t get many chances to rush the quarterback, given his obvious athleticism you would think he’d have more than the 3.5 sacks he has recorded in 37 games." Edited October 24, 2020 by BillsFan692 1 1
thebandit27 Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsFan692 said: https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2020/10/23/whats-wrong-buffalo-bills-defense-tremaine-edmunds-struggles/3742226001/ "Edmunds has rarely made tackles or plays that are drive wreckers or game changers. Counting his 41 tackles this season, only 15 of his 277 career tackles have resulted in lost yardage, none this year. And while he doesn’t get many chances to rush the quarterback, given his obvious athleticism you would think he’d have more than the 3.5 sacks he has recorded in 37 games." Wait, he doesn’t get to rush the passer, but he should have more sacks? Also, has anyone compared Edmunds’ numbers through 3 years to Kuechly’s numbers through 3 years in the same system? Spoiler alert: I bet you’d be surprised... https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Tremaine+Edmunds&player_id1_select=Tremaine+Edmunds&player_id1=EdmuTr01&idx=pfr__players&p1yrfrom=2018&p1yrto=2020&player_id2_hint=Luke+Kuechly&player_id2_select=Luke+Kuechly&player_id2=KuecLu00&idx=pfr__players&p2yrfrom=2012&p2yrto=2014 Turns out Kuechly had 1 more tackle per game than Edmunds, and 0.2 TFLs/game more...and that’s the only difference. Though Edmunds is arguably the better pass rusher since he has 11 QB hits in 36 games compared to 7 in 48 games for Kuechly. 1
Coach Tuesday Posted October 24, 2020 Posted October 24, 2020 Based on the video the defense is simply too predictable. 1
BillsFan692 Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 15 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Wait, he doesn’t get to rush the passer, but he should have more sacks? Also, has anyone compared Edmunds’ numbers through 3 years to Kuechly’s numbers through 3 years in the same system? Spoiler alert: I bet you’d be surprised... https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Tremaine+Edmunds&player_id1_select=Tremaine+Edmunds&player_id1=EdmuTr01&idx=pfr__players&p1yrfrom=2018&p1yrto=2020&player_id2_hint=Luke+Kuechly&player_id2_select=Luke+Kuechly&player_id2=KuecLu00&idx=pfr__players&p2yrfrom=2012&p2yrto=2014 Turns out Kuechly had 1 more tackle per game than Edmunds, and 0.2 TFLs/game more...and that’s the only difference. Though Edmunds is arguably the better pass rusher since he has 11 QB hits in 36 games compared to 7 in 48 games for Kuechly. That is interesting. So did Kuechly "kick it in to gear" within the same system?
thebandit27 Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 4 hours ago, BillsFan692 said: That is interesting. So did Kuechly "kick it in to gear" within the same system? Partially...and partially he was fortunate enough to play behind Star and Kawann Short; flanked by Thomas Davis.
BeastMaster Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 It's tough for me, because I believe that the LB position is more of an instinct position. Gotta have a really good feel for the game and anticipate what is going to happen. In that regard...I often see a lack of that with him. Could it be the way they preach the system to him and that he's too disciplined? I would say that's certainly a possibility given what we know about the teams defensive philosophy. I really like when he's attacking and rushing the passer. I wish he'd get sent more often. Just some of my thoughts
Philly McButterpants Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Wait, he doesn’t get to rush the passer, but he should have more sacks? Also, has anyone compared Edmunds’ numbers through 3 years to Kuechly’s numbers through 3 years in the same system? Spoiler alert: I bet you’d be surprised... https://stathead.com/football/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Tremaine+Edmunds&player_id1_select=Tremaine+Edmunds&player_id1=EdmuTr01&idx=pfr__players&p1yrfrom=2018&p1yrto=2020&player_id2_hint=Luke+Kuechly&player_id2_select=Luke+Kuechly&player_id2=KuecLu00&idx=pfr__players&p2yrfrom=2012&p2yrto=2014 Turns out Kuechly had 1 more tackle per game than Edmunds, and 0.2 TFLs/game more...and that’s the only difference. Though Edmunds is arguably the better pass rusher since he has 11 QB hits in 36 games compared to 7 in 48 games for Kuechly. Puh-lease. are you seriously comparing this useless sack of s**t (Edmunds) to Luke Kuechly???? Hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha . . . These numbers aren't even close . . . Don't get me wrong . . . No one wants to see Edmunds succeed and play at a high level more than I. My point is that he is not, has not and (IMHO) will not and should be off the team next September. Bad waste of draft capital there . . . Edited October 25, 2020 by Philly McButterpants
thebandit27 Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Philly McButterpants said: Puh-lease. are you seriously comparing this useless sack of s**t (Edmunds) to Luke Kuechly???? Hahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha . . . These numbers aren't even close . . . Don't get me wrong . . . No one wants to see Edmunds succeed and play at a high level more than I. My point is that he is not, has not and (IMHO) will not and should be off the team next September. Bad waste of draft capital there . . . Did you miss the critical phrase “per game” in that post? Try clicking on the “per game” button in the link and then take a look...
Philly McButterpants Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 22 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Did you miss the critical phrase “per game” in that post? Try clicking on the “per game” button in the link and then take a look... I really don't care - you are defending something that can't be defended. Edmunds couldn't hold Kuechly's jockstrap. and if you see them as comparable players, more power to ya.
thebandit27 Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Philly McButterpants said: I really don't care - you are defending something that can't be defended. Edmunds couldn't hold Kuechly's jockstrap. and if you see them as comparable players, more power to ya. Defending what? All I did was lay out the data. Tell you what: look at the per-game numbers and tell me what they say, then we can have a discussion.
Philly McButterpants Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 And I'm saying that these per game numbers aren't even close: Additionally, Kuechly was an impact player, a game changer, a guy you needed to game plan for. . . Do you seriously think any Offensive Coordinator is losing sleep over facing 49? I find Edmunds lack of production to be very disturbing. We know this coaching staff can coach, train and build. It's not them, it's him. I don't like to blame players for where they're drafted (Ngata vs. Whitner). I'm ready to move on from Edmunds. He would need to take a complete 180 in his play for me to think otherwise. I'm hoping the people that make decisions at OBD feel the same way.
dave mcbride Posted October 25, 2020 Posted October 25, 2020 4 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Partially...and partially he was fortunate enough to play behind Star and Kawann Short; flanked by Thomas Davis. I think the thing the stats miss is Kuechly’s excellence in coverage. Throws not made because he had his guy covered are great plays but don’t show on the stat sheet. His coverage ability—which depended at least in part on his fantastic play recognition ability—is what separated him from the merely very good MLBs. 1
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