What is Wrong With the Defense

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, In Summary said:

Bills often play only two LB's.  One starter (Milano) is injured.  The other (Edmunds) makes no impact.  The backups are underwhelming.  The D-line is (read above).

 

The result is that the safeties are having to handle most of the run support (IMO) in addition to having to the whole D backfield having to cover longer.  I really don't have too much to say that's negative about the defensive backfield given the injuries and the fact that many plays that should have been stopped at the line or 5 yards past it are now all falling to the safeties and DB's.

 

The Bills were absolutely resolute about wanting to limit the Chief's big play pass offense at the cost of leaving the D on the field too long and getting slapped around on runs.  Perhaps better personnel adjustments to the run could have been made if we had clear LB depth.

 

Apparently per Frazier presser, one starter (Milano) is injured and out; the other starter (Edmunds) is injured and playing.

 

Matt Fairburn had a take on the DL decisions:

2. The Bills’ defensive line may have had better luck if Harrison Phillips and Trent Murphy had been in the lineup. Sean McDermott said the two handled the situation like pros after being named healthy scratches.(....) McDermott decided Bryan Cox Jr., A.J. Epenesa and Darryl Johnson all gave the Bills a better chance to win than Murphy did. That has to be tough for Murphy to swallow. The Bills could have turned to Murphy and Phillips in this game when the Chiefs decided to go with a run-heavy approach. It felt like McDermott tried to get too clever with that lineup decision, and you wonder what impact it will have in a locker room that looks to Phillips and Murphy as leaders.

 

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall in the room where that decision was made and when the aftermath was discussed.  It seems contra-intuitive to have a game plan where the primary goal is to shut down the pass with the secondary goal to contain the QB limit the run, and healthy-scratch a guy who is one of the best run defenders and another guy who is a very gap-sound run defender, in favor of two practice squad guys who apparently were winning the walk-through or limited practice.

 

 

 

[njbuff]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That @JGMcD2 guy had a point.  And that point is that "They suck" posts are the Football Board version of breasts on a chicken - totally useless for the useful purposes of chickens.

 

Why do they suck?  What makes them suck?  What could make them better?  Agree or disagree, all of those foster discussion.

 

Just "They Suck, End Thread" does not - I mean, congratulations Einstein, I guess we can turn out the lights, shut the board down, and go home now, You've spoken?

 

 

Dandy Don would have song that to the Bills the last two weeks.

 

[Haze_21]

Off season signings

 

Vernon Butler - 2 yr(s) / $15,000,000    

AJ Klein - 3 yr(s) / $18,000,000    

Tyler Matakevich - 2 yr(s) / $7,150,000    

Josh Norman - 1 yr(s) / $6,000,000    

 

These guys vary between useless and detrimental to the current squad. No one liked these signings at the time, Jefferson and Addison haven't been great either but are less head scratching. We were willing to trust the process given Beane and McDermott being the best leadership in some time but this money could have been better spent. This carolina re-tread ***** needs to end.

 

[colin]

the klien contract is especially insane.  like, we run this D which requires frankly too much from LBs, they have to read cover move and tackle, and a mistake in any of those hurts the d more than in many other d's, so we spend not big but not small money on a guy who really can't do any of that as well as the scheme requires.

 

this team hit paydirt w cheaper free agents signing hyde and poyer, lorax, and jordan phillips.  they did less well w star and murphy.  combine that with drafting (solid on white, edmunds and milano, trash at CB since that and unless oliver just gets awesome when his knee heals, he and epenesa can be added to that list so far) and we just don't have the right amount of young playmakers offsetting underperforming over paid old guys

 

given that we are putting straight UPS driver practice squad guys and benching starters vs the champs, we would be MUCH better off to have passed on some of these barely JAGS and brought in say clowney and a decent nickle cb

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

My guess is that the D-Line is slightly undersized. With the O-Line allowed to hold like they are now our guys are having trouble shedding blockers and getting to the QB. They seem to be having trouble with gap responsibility which is putting more pressure on our undersized LB’s who need to be kept clean to make plays. In turn our secondary is having to cover longer and are being burned. This is also not just happing to just the Bills but all defenses across the NFL. We have to figure out how to adapt or die.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Defense eats their Snickers bars with knives  and forks? 🤔

[ngbills]

2 hours ago, Haze_21 said:

Off season signings

 

Vernon Butler - 2 yr(s) / $15,000,000    

AJ Klein - 3 yr(s) / $18,000,000    

Tyler Matakevich - 2 yr(s) / $7,150,000    

Josh Norman - 1 yr(s) / $6,000,000    

 

These guys vary between useless and detrimental to the current squad. No one liked these signings at the time, Jefferson and Addison haven't been great either but are less head scratching. We were willing to trust the process given Beane and McDermott being the best leadership in some time but this money could have been better spent. This carolina re-tread ***** needs to end.

 

Scary. 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 10/20/2020 at 12:54 PM, Southern Bills Fan said:

How many times will they have to watch the film and see Hughes crash inside and the QB run outside where he should be and gain 20 yards before they sit him?

 

 

It's a problem.

 

And I think if you look back on the worst stretches of Bills defense in the past 4 seasons,  unfortunately Jerry Hughes going off script is a common theme.

 

Hughes is hurt by a lack of interior pass rush this year.........some of that was having Jordan Phillips just diving thru gaps like a massive Kyle Williams and some of it is the blitzing LB's not being able to do so this year.........but he's just playing way too out of control.

 

They had a nice plan using Addison as a spy a few times and he did a good job of cutting off Mahomes scrambles........I think the near Josh Norman interception was one such play........but in general there have been way too many plays with lack of contain.

[DuckyBoys]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's a problem.

 

And I think if you look back on the worst stretches of Bills defense in the past 4 seasons,  unfortunately Jerry Hughes going off script is a common theme.

 

Hughes is hurt by a lack of interior pass rush this year.........some of that was having Jordan Phillips just diving thru gaps like a massive Kyle Williams and some of it is the blitzing LB's not being able to do so this year.........but he's just playing way too out of control.

 

They had a nice plan using Addison as a spy a few times and he did a good job of cutting off Mahomes scrambles........I think the near Josh Norman interception was one such play........but in general there have been way too many plays with lack of contain.

 

Jerry's been awful.  Spinning back inside just in time to give the edge to the qb on too many critical downs

[Big Blitz]

1 guy has more then one sack.  Jefferson has 2.

 

We have 10 total on pace for about 26 sacks.

 

We have 2 interceptions.  

 

 

Turnovers change games.  Sacks get guys fired up.  

 

We have done neither and its rippling through the whole team.  Not being able to run the ball well hurts to that puts too much pressure on a passing attack now facing a defense that can just leave 6 in the box and take away all big plays and turn the d lineman loose.  

 

We've been figured out.  The offense can adjust I believe we will fix the running game and Josh will be fine.

 

The defense is done.  Lost cause in 2020.  Major overhaul get them to elite quick (you can do that with a defense) and with what we have now on O we're SB contenders next year.  We need a little playoff run this year for confidence.  Win a game hopefully.  It will be a successful season if we can manage that from here.

 

Win the division.

 

Win at least one playoff game.  That's gotta be worst case scenario for what we've been trying to build to this point.  

[gordong]

first thing I see is we are playing WAY to soft in coverage its not hard to complete an 8 yard pass when you are 12 yards off to begin with. secound the DLine is getting no pressure... its actually worse than last year..  all off season we heard how the line was going to be so much better with the better players,  I'm blaming the new D-Line coach. However the players need to start performing as well.  and lastly the LB depth is non-existent  when you have these three issue the defense is going to have issues...

 

   One trade for a real pass rusher would help this defense by leaps and bounds...  if you have to give up a first round pick do it... but it would have to be for someone on the younger side.  we are going to see a defensive heavy draft next year. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

On 10/20/2020 at 10:49 PM, newcam2012 said:

Oliver and Edmunds seem to be trending as busts. Still too early but both haven't lived up to expectations. We really needed them to step up. Oliver barely gets his name called in a game. Edmunds is constantly out of position or missing tackles. I'm no expert but I really don't think it's the coaches or the scheme. They have been successful with it for a few years now. The common denominator is the players. The offense is going to have to win us games. 

Coaches are playing Oliver out of position in the 1 tech a lot taking on blockers. A 280lb NT is going to struggle. 

[Hebert19]

On 10/20/2020 at 10:57 AM, billsfan61184 said:

To start how about the defense yielding 245 yards in the ground and 466 overall in which a team did what they wanted when they wanted. How about 15 percent or $30M of our entire cap tied up in 3 DEs in Hughes, Addison and Murphy and all we have is 4 sacks from these 3 guys. We have too many hard working, over paid defensive guys courtesy of coach. We made great strides with the passing offense. This league is now a year to year league because of qb contracts. In this day and age ..... with qbs on rookie contracts you can't afford to waste their early years. This putrid defense is on coach and GM. It's only going to get more difficult when 20 percent of cap is tied up in qb in a few years. Can't afford to keep a 29 yr old run stopper on edge for almost 9m in Murphy. Could have used that money this year to get a legitimate starting lb to go next to Edmunds and Milano and not have some washed up imposter playing the role of a starting lb in Klein. it's time for a change in philosophy with the d line. Hard working over achievers arent going to cut it..... it's time for a pure edge rusher with our top pick. If Oliver is going to make it in this league it's not between the "A" gap.... he's getting destroyed/ manhandled. It's time to adapt to your talent coach..... definition of insanity is doing same thing over and over and expecting different results. Quintin Jefferson is not a DT....he's a hybrid..... you don't think teams know we have an undersized DT in Oliver and a hybrid guy that should be more outside in a 3-4 defense in Jefferson. Put this with Edmunds not getting off blocks and ultimately you have holes the size of the Grand Canyon in the middle of our defense. It also has made our safeties reactive with absolutely no proactive ability to cause havoc with pre-snap looks or deceptions. They have become paralyzed tacklers on the back end because of having to make so many tackles and not being able to be aggressive at the line of scrimmage.

1.   No identity.  Are we a coverage team or a blitzing team.  Are we stout again run or pass...no on knows. 

2.  System has been exposed.  I have to believe there is more to this then just personnel.  These are talented football players.  Ed was great at the end of last year.   Jefferson had a huge win rate last year.  Addison has been a double digit sack guy.  Jerry is Jerry.  He beats his guy pretty regularly.  There is something broken in the system.  Teams have figured out our vanilla shell and get the ball out quickly.  Or have blocking schemes based on how our front 4 rarely use stunts or anything outside just trying to push the pocket.  

 

Thats my take. 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

How long was Yannick Ngakoue our there? 
 

And to see Jordan Phillips not get a 3 year $50M deal, rather a 3 year $30M deal, it does make you wonder if the Bills gauged the market correctly.
 

Our FO still values Panthers. We made our minds up that Butler and Addison had to be here.

[Coach Tuesday]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's a problem.

 

And I think if you look back on the worst stretches of Bills defense in the past 4 seasons,  unfortunately Jerry Hughes going off script is a common theme.

 

Hughes is hurt by a lack of interior pass rush this year.........some of that was having Jordan Phillips just diving thru gaps like a massive Kyle Williams and some of it is the blitzing LB's not being able to do so this year.........but he's just playing way too out of control.

 

They had a nice plan using Addison as a spy a few times and he did a good job of cutting off Mahomes scrambles........I think the near Josh Norman interception was one such play........but in general there have been way too many plays with lack of contain.

There was a running play on Monday night that looked like it was schemed specifically by Reid with the expectation that Hughes would immediately vacate the edge and crash inside.  Which he did, immediately at the snap, and the back ran right into the void for a huge gain.  I wonder if it’s obvious on film that if if you block a certain way, Jerry will freelance because he can’t resist.  
 

PS - my wife is tired of me yelling at the TV,  “Get back in your *#+$ lane Jerry!”  She has no idea what it means other than she probably made a mistake in marrying me.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Coaches are playing Oliver out of position in the 1 tech a lot taking on blockers. A 280lb NT is going to struggle. 

I don't buy this notion. Frazier and McDermott know how to use the strengths of their players. Simply put, Oliver stinks right now. He has had little to no impact since being drafted. Maybe there is a reason why he dropped to us. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

They are soft, slow, and old. Without Star they don’t have the size to hold their spot and they don’t have the speed to create mismatches. It’s a total cluster and their is no quick fix. Beane and McD botched this horribly. The only hope is Phillips starts playing better, Epenesa develops into a pass rusher, and/or they make a trade.  

[SoCal Deek]

The coaching staff is getting paid big bucks too...not just the players. It’s time for the coaches to make a strategic change. What they’ve been doing is clearly not working. If your D Line isn’t getting to the QB it’s time to start mixing in some blitzes. Sitting back and getting pounded into the ground is not the answer!

Edited October 22, 2020 by SoCal Deek

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I don't buy this notion. Frazier and McDermott know how to use the strengths of their players. Simply put, Oliver stinks right now. He has had little to no impact since being drafted. Maybe there is a reason why he dropped to us. 

Why are Frazier and McDermott playing Josh Norman in man if they know how to use the strengths of their players? Why are the blitzing players that suck at blitzing?

 

If you just started watching oliver in the last few games I could see saying that he hasn’t been good but saying he’s had no impact since being drafted is flat out wrong. He was progressing towards the end of the year and had a huge impact in the Dallas game.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[frostbitmic]

Can't pressure much less sack the QB

 

Can't stop the run

 

Receivers generally have 5-7 yard cushions

 

Tackling could improve

 

That's all, not much wrong with the D