Defensive problems-just my opinion

[SydneyBillsFan]

Just watched Jordan Phillips manhandle and strip the ball from Ezekiel Elliot.

 

Wish we had an angry DL like him.

[billsfan89]

I think a scheme adjustment is possible to help with some of the issues and Milano and Levi coming back will help. But the D-line needs a big run stuffer up the middle (which I think would allow Oliver and Jefferson to play as gap penetrators) which I hope they can find off the street and the defense needs a big time edge rusher. The latter will be hard to find but I would love to see McBeane get on the phone to Minny and offer a pick for Yannick. 

[transplantbillsfan]

https://theathletic.com/2148707/2020/10/19/josh-allen-bills-chiefs-patrick-mahomes?source=user-shared-article

Third-and-wrong

Buffalo’s defense entered Monday’s game third from the bottom in stopping third-down conversions, allowing opponents to move the chains 50.9 percent of the time.

 

As bad as that overall number is, consider they also allowed three of six conversions on third-and-11 or longer.

 

Make that five of eight now.

 

Buffalo squandered both juicy chances they had to get Kansas City off the field.

 

Down by six with 4:13 to play, the Bills gave up a 37-yard completion to Byron Pringle on third-and-12. The Chiefs ended the drive with a field goal.

 

Kansas City also converted a third-and-14 with Buffalo in prevent defense 16 seconds before halftime. Mahomes threw to Demarcus Robinson for 15 yards to lengthen a drive that short-circuited with Kelce’s midfield fumble on the next play.

 

Picking up those low-probability first downs can be backbreakers.

 

It occurred once in each of the Bills’ three previous games: The Los Angeles Rams scored a touchdown to pull within three points in the fourth quarter, the Las Vegas Raiders made a field goal on their opening possession, and the Tennessee Titans scored a second-quarter touchdown on those extended drives.

 

Opposing quarterbacks in these situations have completed seven of eight attempts for 124 yards with no turnovers or sacks.

[PaoloBillsFanFromItaly]

What was most bothering me was those outside runs being totally uncontested at the line of scrimmage and going for 8+ yards consistently.

Wasn't the sideline to sideline cover ability one of the most celebrated Edmunds abilities?

Instead our LBs were always clogged in the middle.

I don't know if it was too easy for the OL reaching the second level, if our LBs were attacking the wrong gaps, or if our DE was losing the end contain, but it was painful to watch.

 

And the missed tackles.

[Nextmanup]

7 hours ago, BuffBills51 said:

I will rank my defensive problems I am seeing. I have coached at multiple levels and was a scout for a period of time. This what I have been seeing consistently on film. 
 

1. A gap penetration. This seems to be the Bills largest problem when it comes to the passing game. Quarterbacks consistently have a clean area to step and throw. The Bills are missing Jordan Phillips in this area as they have had zero penetration between the center and guards this year and collapsing the pocket. 
 

2. Edmunds- I hate to list him as his own problem but he seems to be consistently out of position and over pursues trying to make a play. You need your middle linebacker to fill space and make a play at the line. He is a freak of an athlete but has not figured out the mlb spot and not sure he ever well. 
 

3. End contain- This is something that is taught from the youth level up to the pros. Our ends consistently get caught going inside losing their edge. It hurt us last week against Tannehill and cost us again tonight. 
 

4. Lack of playmakers on the front 7. This is an easy one. We just don’t have the athletes or personnel to apply pressure. We have a good secondary but with a lack of rush and pressure NFL quarterbacks are going to be able to step in to their throws and place into tight windows. 
 

 

Point #4 can't be overstated.

The D as a whole is lacking elite talent and playmakers.  

 

We have White as a shutdown corner and then it's a big drop down to the next player.  No one on the line is worth mentioning.

 

Jerry Hughes used to be more of something special, but he is now past his prime by several years.

 

We needed to get more out of the #9 overall pick in Oliver than we have gotten so far.

 

 

 

[DrPJax]

6 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

I thought the defensive strategy was pretty sound; gave up only 26 points to a team that would shredded them for 46 had they played press with 8 in the box due to lack of pass rush.   the problem was the offense could not score , simple as that.  Spags made a mess out of Josh's head.  All good, Titans and Chiefs are the class of the AFC now and it showed.  

I don’t think it’s sound strategy when you give 32 plus min in time of possession to the other team and never have the ball long enough to get into any offensive rhythm. Also those who keep saying this was successful because the Chiefs didn’t get their usual act plus 30 have flawed logic. The Chiefs TOOK what they NEEDED TO WIN , and they were never seriously challenged. They successfully passed when THEY NEEDED TO or  WANTED TOO, and at the end they just passed for the game clinching fg with never any serious doubt that they couldn’t score almost on command. How many 4 th downs did our vaulted strategy force them into,,,,, oh yeah ,,,, one on 4 th and inches which  they converted with blowing the line off on a 9 yard TD run. This was never close to being a sound strategy.   They took what they wanted to WIN,,and Reid was way ahead of McDermott. Mcd is not a good big game coach. He is a perfectionist, and perfectionist’s flaws lie with needing to change just for the sake of change/ adjusting , they have to always tinker, adjust , and over and over Mcd over analyzes and these ever changing game plans keep his team from playing fast, aggressive football.   They had 4 good games as a passing team, spreading the ball around. The change in D caused a huge TOP deficit that carried over and ruined the offense. 
 

 Mcd has 3 plus years of a record now and it’s around .500 as he beats bad teams and loses playoffs, majority of games against winning record teams, zero wins against the Pats, loses home games more than he should, tinkers with both lines just to tinker it seems ( after seeing tonight I can’t imagine what  Murphy / Harry did to deserved being inactive given these results. who sends messages like this ? Perfectionists)  He was completely out coached and no one will be crediting him with some amazing strategy, they are laughing at the moment just as the Chiefs were post game. We were never really in this game; the chiefs controlled the game as there are no moral victories because they scored less than usual. I love mc d as a culture / process guy. Good for human growth , yet he so far is an average game day coach.  These are just the FACTS based on results up till this moment. Josh changed his game/ accuracy, maybe Mc D will become a better big game / playoff success type coach in time.  FAILED STRATEGY TODAY !  😉😀😊🍺

[RyanC883]

8 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

Between Epenesa and Oliver there is a trend here of smaller DL that just get swallowed up 

 

also, a trend of over-drafting players.  

[vincec]

9 hours ago, Billever76 said:

#1 a DC who has no ability to scheme to his rosters strengths to hide our weakness....hyde/poyer/edmunds/white/milano and our defense is on pace to be the worst in franchise history?....ummm no its on our DC to get the most from his players and Frazier has failed...white and then poyer both having undisciplined penalties in crucial late game points?...the players have checked out of this defense and are sinking the entire ship....mcdermott has only one option and that is to relieve frazier of calling the defense and atleast attempt to salvage it..and the only way that can be done is you leave the soft zone cover 2 bs with 25yard deep safetys and 10 yard cushion cb schemes in the 🗑 where it belongs....we dont have the front 4 for the bend but dont break to not collapse...we must bring our safeties up in run and intermediate pass help and stop worrying about the homerun big play

They don’t have the front four to play cover 2 but they also don’t have the coverage personnel to play man and bring up their safeties. This is is one of the problems. Good luck playing man with no safety help with guys like Norman, Johnson and Wallace back there.

[metbill]

Edmunds, Edmunds, Edmunds!  He is an absolute waste.  I would rather we play with 10 men and keep him off the field.  I am tired of seeing him unable to wrap up a tackle only to slide off and take another potential playmaker out.  He backpedals almost every play, run or pass, but still manages to be 10 yards off the TE he should be keeping tabs on.  I do not recall him  making a solid solo tackle  too often.  Foe what we used on him in the draft  I am to the point of sickness now.  I would be fine if they jetted him to Philly or Dallas for a 7th and move on.  

Frazier also has to be bothered by his play as well or else he realizes he is job hunting soon anyway so why change now....

[LabattBlue]

I just woke up and I’m still looking for Hyde?  It is pretty bad when even your best players on defense are invisible.  
 

 

[Beast]

Listen, #99 and 93 may not be having great years but, IMO, they have been a hell of a lot better than #91 and 55.

 

McDermott should be taking heat for sitting those two and keeping the absolute do-nothings in the lineup.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Beast

[mjt328]

In football, Defense is about all the players and coaches working together as a cohesive unit.  One crack in the armor, and it starts causing problems everywhere else.

 

The first BIG problem is at 1-Tech DT.  For all the criticism he gets from the fans, Star Lotulelei was a key piece on this defense.  His job was to occupy blockers, and keep them off the other defenders.  Not get penetration and rack up stats.  In his place, Harrison Phillips has been an absolute disaster.  He clearly is not the same guy as he was pre-injury.  Vernon Butler has been a terrible FA acquisition, and also done nothing to replace Lotulelei.  In my opinion, many of our problems have spiraled off of this crack in the armor.

 

Without strong play from our 1-Tech DT, it fully exposes how undersized we are on the rest of the Front Seven.  Interior blockers can simply double-team Ed Oliver/Quinton Jefferson and make them totally irrelevant on passing plays.  Interior blockers can also easily get to the second level on run plays.  And shedding blockers is NOT the strength of our Linebackers.  As many have pointed out, Tremaine Edmunds is more of a WLB playing in the middle.  He can be very good when kept clean.  But he struggles badly when taking on offensive linemen.

 

The second BIG problem is the injury to Matt Milano.  It cannot be stated how important Linebackers are to the McDermott/Frazier zone scheme, and their ability to run sideline to sideline AND cover the middle of the field.  Notice that our coverage is not usually getting beaten deep down the field (even against the Chiefs).  Quarterbacks are instead finding open cracks in the short zones.  Where we used to get off the field on 3rd Down, we are now letting up those conversions regularly and constantly letting drives continue.  Our "bend but don't break" scheme is breaking on those key plays, and much of this is due to struggles in replacing Milano.

 

It's easy to blame coaching.  But the Sean McDermott/Leslie Frazier scheme has been EXACTLY the same since the day they got here.

It needs the D-Line to get pressure with 4 guys.   It needs the 1-Tech to occupy blockers on running plays.  It needs two athletic linebackers to stay clean and make plays sideline to sideline.  It needs disciplined play when filling run gaps, and the secondary to communicate well in zone coverage.  Any breaks in this plan, and everything falls apart.  I don't see them making drastic scheme changes mid-season, because the players are not doing their jobs correctly.

 

[mjt328]

12 hours ago, Billever76 said:

#1 a DC who has no ability to scheme to his rosters strengths to hide our weakness....hyde/poyer/edmunds/white/milano and our defense is on pace to be the worst in franchise history?....ummm no its on our DC to get the most from his players and Frazier has failed...white and then poyer both having undisciplined penalties in crucial late game points?...the players have checked out of this defense and are sinking the entire ship....mcdermott has only one option and that is to relieve frazier of calling the defense and atleast attempt to salvage it..and the only way that can be done is you leave the soft zone cover 2 bs with 25yard deep safetys and 10 yard cushion cb schemes in the 🗑 where it belongs....we dont have the front 4 for the bend but dont break to not collapse...we must bring our safeties up in run and intermediate pass help and stop worrying about the homerun big play

 

The Bills are not the Patriots.  We don't have the personnel to run multiple defensive schemes.

We can make some slight adjustments, but this scheme is what we run.  None of that is going to change.

 

If we are going to salvage this season, it will need to come from our players doing a better job.  Not from drastic systematic changes.

 

Beane needs to find someone on the street who can play 1-Tech DT at a somewhat decent level.  We also need to get Matt Milano back.

Both of these things would make a HUGE difference.

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, BuffBills51 said:

I will rank my defensive problems I am seeing. I have coached at multiple levels and was a scout for a period of time. This what I have been seeing consistently on film. 
 

1. A gap penetration. This seems to be the Bills largest problem when it comes to the passing game. Quarterbacks consistently have a clean area to step and throw. The Bills are missing Jordan Phillips in this area as they have had zero penetration between the center and guards this year and collapsing the pocket. 
 

2. Edmunds- I hate to list him as his own problem but he seems to be consistently out of position and over pursues trying to make a play. You need your middle linebacker to fill space and make a play at the line. He is a freak of an athlete but has not figured out the mlb spot and not sure he ever well. 
 

3. End contain- This is something that is taught from the youth level up to the pros. Our ends consistently get caught going inside losing their edge. It hurt us last week against Tannehill and cost us again tonight. 
 

4. Lack of playmakers on the front 7. This is an easy one. We just don’t have the athletes or personnel to apply pressure. We have a good secondary but with a lack of rush and pressure NFL quarterbacks are going to be able to step in to their throws and place into tight windows. 
 

 

 

Agree with this along with Klein and Norman. Norman gives lots of room for WRS. Cannot wait for Levi to come back. Worst players on D right now. 

 

Coaching too. Bills should focus all around Defense not just the strengths to the other team. Would of blitz last nite try to win. McDermott needs to throw in going for the win attitude. 

[clayboy54]

14 hours ago, Billever76 said:

#1 a DC who has no ability to scheme to his rosters strengths to hide our weakness....hyde/poyer/edmunds/white/milano and our defense is on pace to be the worst in franchise history?....ummm no its on our DC to get the most from his players and Frazier has failed...white and then poyer both having undisciplined penalties in crucial late game points?...the players have checked out of this defense and are sinking the entire ship....mcdermott has only one option and that is to relieve frazier of calling the defense and atleast attempt to salvage it..and the only way that can be done is you leave the soft zone cover 2 bs with 25yard deep safetys and 10 yard cushion cb schemes in the 🗑 where it belongs....we dont have the front 4 for the bend but dont break to not collapse...we must bring our safeties up in run and intermediate pass help and stop worrying about the homerun big play

I do not disagree with your assessment. I believe the problem is not with calls, but rather with scheme. You can only make the calls from the plays you have already installed. Unfortunately in the NFL, you don't have time to install a new playbook in-season. With the losses we have from last year and the new personnel we have this year, our defensive playbook does not match the personnel on the field. We couldn't possibly have known all this with the dramatically shortened offseason. So, the only realistic course of action is to switch out personnel (as they are trying to do) until you can find a grouping that is capable of executing the existing playbook.

 

Next offseason, they can either change out personnel to match Frazier's playbook or install a completely different defensive playbook with a different coordinator that matches the personnel we have. I suppose we could do both. Unfortunately, this cannot be done in-season despite what fans might think. That is, of course, unless you're planning on tanking and cleaning house at the end.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Billever76 said:

#1 a DC who has no ability to scheme to his rosters strengths to hide our weakness....hyde/poyer/edmunds/white/milano and our defense is on pace to be the worst in franchise history?....ummm no its on our DC to get the most from his players and Frazier has failed...white and then poyer both having undisciplined penalties in crucial late game points?...the players have checked out of this defense and are sinking the entire ship....mcdermott has only one option and that is to relieve frazier of calling the defense and atleast attempt to salvage it..and the only way that can be done is you leave the soft zone cover 2 bs with 25yard deep safetys and 10 yard cushion cb schemes in the 🗑 where it belongs....we dont have the front 4 for the bend but dont break to not collapse...we must bring our safeties up in run and intermediate pass help and stop worrying about the homerun big play

 

TBH, when a defensive scheme is built on being able to get pressure with 4 and set the edge, I'm not sure there's much way to scheme around that.  It's also note-worthy that the "stop worrying about the homerun big play" philosphy arguably came within a handful of plays of getting a win.  If we convert 4th and 1 and sustain that offensive drive for a TD, OR if the D gets a stop out of field goal range and our offense gets another shot at a 1 score game, we could have won.

 

I think there is probably something to the argument that our defensive plays have become predictable and our defense has been "solved" though.

 

3 hours ago, Back the Blue said:

I just woke up and I’m still looking for Hyde?  It is pretty bad when even your best players on defense are invisible. 

 

Having Hyde deep downfield to contain the big play was part of the defensive game plan.  He said as much in his press availability this week "if you can't see me on your TV screen because I'm 60 yds downfield, that's why".  Don't blame the player for following the game plan.

 

[Real McClappy]

So when does Edmunds get the bench?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Real McNasty said:

So when does Edmunds get the bench?

 

It rubs the lotion on its skin, or it gets the bench....whups, wrong movie

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, Real McNasty said:

So when does Edmunds get the bench?

Edmunds role in the tampa 2 is to drop into the deep middle of the field almost like a safety....edmunds is being ruined by this coaching staff....he is not a deep middle coverage lber...he is suited for the olb and to attack downhill not cover and read

16 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

I thought the defensive strategy was pretty sound; gave up only 26 points to a team that would shredded them for 46 had they played press with 8 in the box due to lack of pass rush.   the problem was the offense could not score , simple as that.  Spags made a mess out of Josh's head.  All good, Titans and Chiefs are the class of the AFC now and it showed.  

The defense only gave up 26 points bc chiefs just ran the ball at will and limited our offense chances they had the ball.....leaving your defense on the field for 40 minutes bc you are more worried of the deep ball is a failure....by the time late 3rd and the 4th rolls around they are useless and worn out

[Mat68]

So how do we fix what is going on?  I would move Edmunds outside put Klein or Doddson at the mike.  Play Edmunds at the will and let him cleqn up.  When Milano returns utilize Edmunds like Thorax.  Edmunds is a physical freak.  He can run like a deer.  Supposivley he knows the defense.  Play him all over and let him attack the line instead of read and react.  Seems to me they are not maximizing his skill set.