Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 51 minutes ago, hurfldurf said: I Passing wise it's wild how similar they are, and I might give EJ the edge there. Josh is obviously the better rusher, but he had 19 turnovers to EJ's 15. Is the difference in rushing and 2 more wins enough of a difference to anoint one guy a savior and the other a complete bust? Comparing their rookie years Allen was still better by a landslide when you consider how dominant he was with his legs. Throw in Allen's massive potential and EJ's lack there of and it's of course obvious why Allen was given a full second year. So I do think the huge difference in rushing as well as Allen's arm talent alone were enough to give Allen more time. At least EJ didn't get the Josh Rosen treatment.
Scott7975 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, hurfldurf said: I think EJ was a victim of a negative narrative more so than bad play. He was given 14 starts before he was benched. That seems extremely short for a first round pick. Compare his stats in those 14 games to Josh Allen's first 14 games: Passing: Player Comp. Att. Comp. % Yards Yds/Att. TD Int. Sacks Yards Lost EJ Manuel 256 437 58.6% 2810 6.4 16 12 34 -203 Josh Allen 229 408 56.1% 2750 6.7 13 15 30 -227 Rushing: Player Att. Yards Avg. Rush TD Fumb. Fumb. Lost EJ Manuel 69 238 3.4 3 7 3 Josh Allen 111 710 6.4 10 12 4 Player Record EJ Manuel 6-8 Josh Allen 8-6 Passing wise it's wild how similar they are, and I might give EJ the edge there. Josh is obviously the better rusher, but he had 19 turnovers to EJ's 15. Is the difference in rushing and 2 more wins enough of a difference to anoint one guy a savior and the other a complete bust? *Disclaimer: I ❤️ Josh Allen, just thought EJ got a raw deal here and never got a real chance to grow and succeed. Its not just about stats. When you look at the two on the field... even as rookies you can see a big difference. One guy was a gamer and a leader on the field. The other guy just went through the motions. Also you bring up the turnover difference but not the scoring difference. Edited October 17, 2020 by Scott7975 1
FireChans Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, hurfldurf said: I think EJ was a victim of a negative narrative more so than bad play. He was given 14 starts before he was benched. That seems extremely short for a first round pick. Compare his stats in those 14 games to Josh Allen's first 14 games: Passing: Player Comp. Att. Comp. % Yards Yds/Att. TD Int. Sacks Yards Lost EJ Manuel 256 437 58.6% 2810 6.4 16 12 34 -203 Josh Allen 229 408 56.1% 2750 6.7 13 15 30 -227 Rushing: Player Att. Yards Avg. Rush TD Fumb. Fumb. Lost EJ Manuel 69 238 3.4 3 7 3 Josh Allen 111 710 6.4 10 12 4 Player Record EJ Manuel 6-8 Josh Allen 8-6 Passing wise it's wild how similar they are, and I might give EJ the edge there. Josh is obviously the better rusher, but he had 19 turnovers to EJ's 15. Is the difference in rushing and 2 more wins enough of a difference to anoint one guy a savior and the other a complete bust? *Disclaimer: I ❤️ Josh Allen, just thought EJ got a raw deal here and never got a real chance to grow and succeed. No one looked at Josh’s stats and thought they were great. Josh put a ton of positive plays on the tape. EJ did not.
FireChans Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I think that's full of hyperbole bro There's not FSU fan who won't admit EJ Manuel had a good senior season. he also won you guys like two orange bowls And had like 68% completion his senior year with over two to one touchdown interception ratio Was he a superstar? No, but the dude was one of the better college quarterbacks in FBS that year EJ had a decent season with a stacked team. How many NFLers were on that 2012 FSU team?
MJS Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 That's what he tells himself for sure, but he isn't that good of a quarterback. That's his real problem.
HappyDays Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, hurfldurf said: I think EJ was a victim of a negative narrative more so than bad play. He was given 14 starts before he was benched. That seems extremely short for a first round pick. Compare his stats in those 14 games to Josh Allen's first 14 games: Passing: Player Comp. Att. Comp. % Yards Yds/Att. TD Int. Sacks Yards Lost EJ Manuel 256 437 58.6% 2810 6.4 16 12 34 -203 Josh Allen 229 408 56.1% 2750 6.7 13 15 30 -227 Rushing: Player Att. Yards Avg. Rush TD Fumb. Fumb. Lost EJ Manuel 69 238 3.4 3 7 3 Josh Allen 111 710 6.4 10 12 4 Player Record EJ Manuel 6-8 Josh Allen 8-6 Passing wise it's wild how similar they are, and I might give EJ the edge there. Josh is obviously the better rusher, but he had 19 turnovers to EJ's 15. Is the difference in rushing and 2 more wins enough of a difference to anoint one guy a savior and the other a complete bust? *Disclaimer: I ❤️ Josh Allen, just thought EJ got a raw deal here and never got a real chance to grow and succeed. Did Manuel have a single elite play in his time at QB? His most memorable play was the game winner against Carolina to a wide open Stevie Johnson. He occasionally showed flashes of being mediocre. You can't compare that to Allen's rookie season. Edited October 17, 2020 by HappyDays 1
soflabillsfan1 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 Are there still EJ defenders? I, and every other FSU fan I know knew he wasn't going to be a good pro QB. He was a decent college QB but he looked much better on paper than he did during the heat of the battle. He squandered a lot of talent at FSU too. Kelvin Benjamin had 4 Td's in a season with EJ and had 15 the next year with Jamies. Apparently EJ is a big cry baby now, including blaming racism for his lack of success in the NFL.
Buffalo716 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, FireChans said: EJ had a decent season with a stacked team. How many NFLers were on that 2012 FSU team? Manuel was an all acc 2nd team qb Help the team win 12 games for just the third time in it's historic history 25-6 as starter , including fsu's first BCS bowl win since 2000 And prior to Winston , was the leader of FSUs most prolific offense in program history Was also MVP of senior bowl iirc He was more than decent in College. He did what fsu asked very well and the results were W's Edited October 17, 2020 by Buffalo716
FireChans Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, Buffalo716 said: Manuel was an all acc 2nd team qb Help the team win 12 games for just the third time in it's historic history 25-6 as starter , including fsu's first BCS bowl win since 2000 And prior to Winston , was the leader of FSUs most prolific offense in program history Was also MVP of senior bowl iirc He was more than decent in College. He did what fsu asked very well https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/florida-state/2012-roster.html He did fine, because he had as close to an NFL roster as you can get in college. The next season, they played like it and won the Natty because they had a real QB. 23 TD's passing in college is not impressive. EJ also had 460 rushing yards on 200 carries in his last 2 seasons. He's delusional about his dual threat ability.
soflabillsfan1 Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Manuel was an all acc 2nd team qb Help the team win 12 games for just the third time in it's historic history 25-6 as starter , including fsu's first BCS bowl win since 2000 And prior to Winston , was the leader of FSUs most prolific offense in program history Was also MVP of senior bowl iirc He was more than decent in College. He did what fsu asked very well Most prolific offense in FSU history? Ward in 1993, and Weinke in 2000 disagree with you. EJ throwing 23 TDs and 10 ints is not the most prolific offense in FSU history.
Buffalo716 Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/florida-state/2012-roster.html He did fine, because he had as close to an NFL roster as you can get in college. The next season, they played like it and won the Natty because they had a real QB. 23 TD's passing in college is not impressive. EJ also had 460 rushing yards on 200 carries in his last 2 seasons. He's delusional about his dual threat ability. Fans overreact about how good and bad players are. I just scout football players I don't care about where they go to school or allegiances EJ Manuel was not a good pro quarterback. He had a better college career than 95% of every college quarterback that ever lived The dude won a BCS game at Florida State and made an all ACC team. Jameis Winston being better has no bearing on if EJ was good or not in college Jameis Winston is just a superior quarterback Every single division one athlete with a scholarship has enough talent to go to the NFL if they go get the right coaching and playing the right system And EJ had a better career than 95% of them. Objectively I can say EJ Manuel was a pretty good college quarterback
McBean Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 He sucked in college. He sucked in the NFL. Nothing else to say.
FireChans Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Fans overreact about how good and bad players are. I just scout football players I don't care about where they go to school or allegiances EJ Manuel was not a good pro quarterback. He had a better college career than 95% of every college quarterback that ever lived The dude won a BCS game at Florida State and made an all ACC team. Jameis Winston being better has no bearing on if EJ was good or not in college Jameis Winston is just a superior quarterback Every single division one athlete with a scholarship has enough talent to go to the NFL if they go get the right coaching and playing the right system And EJ had a better career than 95% of them. Objectively I can say EJ Manuel was a pretty good college quarterback EJ had a better team than 95% of them. AJ McCarron had a better career than EJ Manuel, he won a Natty! He must be one of the best college QB's of all time.
Buffalo716 Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said: Most prolific offense in FSU history? Ward in 1993, and Weinke in 2000 disagree with you. EJ throwing 23 TDs and 10 ints is not the most prolific offense in FSU history. Ward and weinkes squads in those years did not have more offensive yards than EJ Manuels squad Ward didn't throw for as many yards but a few more TDs Manual sits fourth all time in yards and like eighth all time in touchdown at fsu The dude didn't become an NFL superstar, and he wasn't a college Superstar, but he absolutely was a solid college player Apparently if you're not an all American you're not solid lol EJ could has started for well over 80% of division 1 schools 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: EJ had a better team than 95% of them. AJ McCarron had a better career than EJ Manuel, he won a Natty! He must be one of the best college QB's of all time. AJ McCarron was a very good college quarterback. Nobody ever said he was the best but he was very good in college Collage and pros is a completely different game Edited October 18, 2020 by Buffalo716 1
prissythecat Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Manuel was an all acc 2nd team qb Help the team win 12 games for just the third time in it's historic history 25-6 as starter , including fsu's first BCS bowl win since 2000 And prior to Winston , was the leader of FSUs most prolific offense in program history Was also MVP of senior bowl iirc He was more than decent in College. He did what fsu asked very well and the results were W's QBs don't win games. Teams do. I believe the point most people here are trying to make is that EJ benefited immensely from being on a stacked team. He did not carry FSU on his shoulders.
Buffalo716 Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, prissythecat said: QBs don't win games. Teams do. I believe the point most people here are trying to make is that EJ benefited immensely from being on a stacked team. He did not carry FSU on his shoulders. I don't think I ever once said he didn't play on a stacked squad. He did, and he absolutely benefited from it But you can only play with who you play with, and Florida state had the best recruiting classes in the country at that time, and guess who rose to the top of the depth chart at quarterback for that stacked program EJ Manuel He absolutely deserves credit for winning the job and helping lead his team to victories
soflabillsfan1 Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Ward and weinkes squads did not have more offensive yards than EJ Manuels squad Ward didn't throw for as many yards but a few more TDs Manual sits fourth all time in yards and like eighth all time in touchdown at fsu The dude didn't become an NFL superstar, and he wasn't a college Superstar, but he absolutely was a solid college player EJ had an extra game. Ward in 1993 and Weinke in 2000 both dusted EJ's squad in yards per game. No one would ever say the 2012 squad up until that point was FSU most prolific offense. Total nonsense.
Buffalo716 Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, soflabillsfan1 said: EJ had an extra game. Ward in 1993 and Weinke in 2000 both dusted EJ's squad in yards per game. No one would ever say the 2012 squad up until that point was FSU most prolific offense. Total nonsense. Listen people were saying EJ Manuel was a trash quarterback in college I'm just here to say that is objectively far from the truth Trash quarterback wouldn't climb to the top of the depth chart at Florida State while they had some of the top recruiting classes in the country A trash quarterback would get buried on the depth chart and then transfer to UConn
soflabillsfan1 Posted October 18, 2020 Posted October 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Listen people were saying EJ Manuel was a trash quarterback in college I'm just here to say that is objectively far from the truth Trash quarterback wouldn't climb to the top of the depth chart at Florida State while they had some of the top recruiting classes in the country A trash quarterback would get buried on the depth chart and then transfer to UConn He definitely wasn't trash. I'll agree with you on that.
Recommended Posts