Slot CB - Immediate Upgrade Required?

[Freddie's Dead]

I'm still pissed we let Nuke go....

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

As much as we spend time focused on CB, I'm more concerned about the play of Micah Hyde.  He seems to be slow to react to passes over the middle in front of him.  He's missing tackles and appears to be out of position.  Maybe he has to play deeper because of concern about the play of the corners but whatever it is, it isn't delivering good results.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Seeing how the Bills missed Milano and Tre White vs Titans, one can only hope that they both suit up and play MON vs Chiefs.  Outside the injury realm, there is one position that looks extremely poor to date in the secondary and that is Slot/Nickle CB Taron Johnson.  He was torched on the 3rd and 19 completion by the Titans and lost coverage a couple other times.  He looks slow and unable to get in guys hip pockets which is what that position requires in coverage.  PFF has him rated as the 4th worst Slot CB in the league and have him surrendering the most yards (285) of any slot CB. Teams like KC, Pittsburgh, NE and SF will take advantage of this weakness.   

 

The Chargers have Desmond King as a depth CB and he is a former All Pro player.  Might the Bills look for an upgrade in the trade market and move a player from a position of strength (OL after Mongo comes back?).  I can't get the Kyle Dugger pick by NE @ #37 out of my head as I know OBD coveted him.  So do we trade for a slot upgrade or do we look to poach a player from a PS?

 

https://nfltraderumors.co/nfltr-review-comprehensive-trade-catalog/

 

 

 

There was an article in todays Athletic that also mentioned Desmond King to the Bills.

 

Once Wallace comes back could he solve the nickel spot? Then have White, Norman, Wallace??  Or is Wallace outside only?

Edited October 17, 2020 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Thurman#1]

There's not much out there. And if there were we have virtually no cap space to pay them.

 

Don't expect big moves. A small one or two maybe.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Wallace has never played nickel.  Not sure how much Norman has.  Johnson has regressed it seems.  He was a guy that when playing he made the defense better and when he was injured in years past it was a noticeable drop off.  I'm not opposed to any upgrade attempt for the defense, but nickel DB is far below  the immediate need to get better LB and DL for me.  

[Matt_In_NH]

I would like to see a pass rush.   The secondary will look fine if there is a pass rush.  

[2ForMacAdoo]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yeah, I was really hoping he’d step up and play 50% of the snaps this season.  Instead, he’s basically our 4th string safety that is rarely seen.  Taron has remained healthy, but his play isn’t nearly as good as his rookie year imo.  It seems like he’s always late to the play.  
 

I hope we use every pick on defense this season other than maybe one TE.

 

I believe Siran Neal has been part of the Bills witness protection program this year.

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting perspective.

 

Leslie Frazier was asked whether the Bills have the right personnel on the field to fix the problems on defense and he was very forthright that we do.

One wonders what he says to McDermott and to Beane when the microphones are off and the door is shut.

 

I "get it" that teams can't necessarily keep great talent around for backup at LB and CB, but right now, it doesn't really look as though we have 3 legit starters at LB if we want to run a true 4-3; neither does it we have the player personnel for a good nickel much less dime.  It seems that the way we normally handle it is to go 4-2-5, but

1) the fifth DB looks like the "weakest link"

2) making this D work seems to critically depend upon the seemingly somewhat unique coverage skillset of Milano and the top-level CB play of White.  So when they go down, we seemingly don't have the hosses to move to a reasonably sound 4-3 or a reasonably sound dime as options.

 

great analysis, I’d say the 3-5 CB’s are generally weak links.  

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

There was an article in todays Athletic that also mentioned Desmond King to the Bills.

 

Once Wallace comes back could he solve the nickel spot? Then have White, Norman, Wallace??  Or is Wallace outside only?

 

Desmond King would be a nice add. 

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

I would like to see a pass rush.   The secondary will look fine if there is a pass rush.  

 

it will loom much better with a pass rush.  I thi k we also need an upgraded 2-5 CB.  

[GreggTX]

We need to do for CB's what we did for our WR over the last 2 years. We had the 4th most cap space in the NFL in 2020 and we did not sign a single impact player in FA except D Williams (maybe). The Diggs trade was great and Davis was a steal in the 4th, but I wonder if the Bills just couldn't get the guys they wanted to come to Buffalo or Beane isn't as sharp as we thought.

 

Maybe we need to let Epenesa get more snaps and move on from Hughes. Not having a good pass rush penalizes everyone in the secondary. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Taron Johnson has been awful in run support this year, not much better in pass defense either

[freddyjj]

10 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

There was an article in todays Athletic that also mentioned Desmond King to the Bills.

 

Once Wallace comes back could he solve the nickel spot? Then have White, Norman, Wallace??  Or is Wallace outside only?

I believe Wallace is an outside only CB. Norman may be able to man the slot. This is where EJ Gaines could have helped as he could play both spots 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, mattynh said:

I would like to see a pass rush.   The secondary will look fine if there is a pass rush.  

He was very careful to avoid the bus throw, but that’s fundamentally what Micah Hyde said in has press avail 

 

I think his words were “playing coordinate d” or “complementary d”

[ProcessTruster]

13 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

I suspect Beane will be examining all possible upgrade options for the defense in the next couple weeks. They can’t only count on immediate improvement and development from any of the young guys on D to carry them forward, not with their record and Allen and Diggs basically keeping them in games on their own.

rosters are pretty locked at this point 5 games in.  more so than any other year.   with Covid, no one letting anyone go.   Hell, almost 70 opted out due to covid.   won't be much quality out there this year. 

[JoPoy88]

30 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

rosters are pretty locked at this point 5 games in.  more so than any other year.   with Covid, no one letting anyone go.   Hell, almost 70 opted out due to covid.   won't be much quality out there this year. 

Talking about trading (2 weeks left) - there’s still a window to do that. I agree with u teams may be hesitant to do it this year but the time is still there to work something out. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[TAinLack.]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Interesting perspective.

 

Leslie Frazier was asked whether the Bills have the right personnel on the field to fix the problems on defense and he was very forthright that we do.

One wonders what he says to McDermott and to Beane when the microphones are off and the door is shut.

 

I "get it" that teams can't necessarily keep great talent around for backup at LB and CB, but right now, it doesn't really look as though we have 3 legit starters at LB if we want to run a true 4-3; neither does it we have the player personnel for a good nickel much less dime.  It seems that the way we normally handle it is to go 4-2-5, but

1) the fifth DB looks like the "weakest link"

2) making this D work seems to critically depend upon the seemingly somewhat unique coverage skillset of Milano and the top-level CB play of White.  So when they go down, we seemingly don't have the hosses to move to a reasonably sound 4-3 or a reasonably sound dime as options.

I'd love to know what McDermott and Beane say Frazier when the microphones are off!

[vincec]

20 hours ago, akcash said:

I was thinking today, what about Josh Norman in the slot and we have Wallace/Lewis/Dane Jackson battle it out on the other side or maybe by committee. 

So a guy who can't play man to man coverage and can't tackle in the slot?

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

He was very careful to avoid the bus throw, but that’s fundamentally what Micah Hyde said in has press avail 

 

I think his words were “playing coordinate d” or “complementary d”

WRs are getting open pretty fast, especially over the middle, so it's definitely not just the pass rush.

[WideNine]

I admit. I was actually a Taron Johnson fan.

 

He plays fearless and has been good against the run in past years, but he has truly struggled with coverage assignments.

 

Maybe more of a traditional SS than a heavy nickle role player.

 

 

[akcash]

45 minutes ago, vincec said:

So a guy who can't play man to man coverage and can't tackle in the slot?

I think hes a pretty good tackler.

Imo I think he struggles more when he has to cover great distances down the field. I think in shorter distances he can use his instincts and quickness. Maybe it would be a disaster but I think it's worth a try. Hes got good hips and change of direction and instincts, I think the downfield speed is kinda tough.

From games I've watched too he loves being down involved in the run defense and getting his head in there.

Edited October 17, 2020 by akcash

[Big C]

21 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

Where is Siran Neal? Did we just forget he’s alive? Not sure why he’s not out there but I have to think we miss his speed. 

 

I thought Siran Neal played well when given the chance last year. Taron has been toyed with all season long.

49 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I admit. I was actually a Taron Johnson fan.

 

He plays fearless and has been good against the run in past years, but he has truly struggled with coverage assignments.

 

Maybe more of a traditional SS than a heavy nickle role player.

 

 

 

He looks like a different player this year. Maybe one too many injuries from playing so hard?

Edited October 17, 2020 by Big C

[Dr.Sack]

Play more deep zone, hope Milano & Edmunds can get some PDs.