In 2019 our defense faced a lot of bad offenses (thread about defensive rankings).

[akcash]

Imo, I think our defense was elite relative to the teams we played last year... I think we just played alot of bad QBs/offenses last year. 

 

And in a lot of those games our offense didn't put up a lot of points so there wasn't as much urgency to score against us like there is this year.

 

I feel like had we played tougher competition last year, our defense would have ranked more in the 10-15 range.

 

I think we have potentially a solid defense that will get better this year... I feel like our ceiling is probably in the 12-14 range overall. And our floor is probably about 18-20 overall when it's all over with.

 

As I reflect I think (at least for me) that was altering my perception of what this defense really was. I do think we were better than this year game for game just with a little bit younger talent that was a little more twitched up. But I still think had we played a schedule like this year we would have been more of a top 10ish team than a top 2 team.

Edited October 16, 2020 by akcash

[Thurman#1]

More of a top 10ish team than a top 2 team last year?  Mmmm. Yeah, maybe 5th, 6th or 7th would be a pretty reasonable argument to make.

 

Still very good though.

 

And I greatly disagree about what you're saying is our ceiling. When we get our top two CBs and our top two LBs back and in shape such that they're not playing well below capacity due to injuries, this could still be a very good defense, particularly if you're looking at ceiling.

 

Two of our top three players didn't play, and the third doesn't appear able to use his right arm much though he's in playing because he's better with one arm that his healthy replacement.

 

And again, the opponents started three drives inside our 20 and one more on the 30 yard line. That's a massive handicap.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Thurman#1

[akcash]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

More of a top 10ish team than a top 2 team last year?  Mmmm. Yeah, maybe 5th, 6th or 7th would be a pretty reasonable argument to make.

 

Still very good though.

 

And I greatly disagree about what you're saying is our ceiling. When we get our top two CBs and our top two LBs back and in shape such that they're not playing well below capacity due to injuries, this could still be a very good defense, particularly if you're looking at ceiling.

 

Two of our top three players didn't play, and the third doesn't appear able to use his right arm much though he's in playing because he's better with one arm that his healthy replacement.

 

And again, the opponents started three drives inside our 20 and one more on the 30 yard line. That's a massive handicap.

Yeah I'm good with taking the Tenn game completely out of it. I still think with the teams we still have to play we're going to take our lumps. I think one of the Pat's games will be high scoring, Miami again, Arizona, KC, Seattle... I think those all have potential to be shootouts. With the damage done already even taking the Titans game out of it I'd be pleasantly surprised if we're better than top 12.  If Tua gets in there and isn't hot out the gate then that could definitely make a difference on that.

[ProcessTruster]

4 hours ago, akcash said:

Imo, I think our defense was elite relative to the teams we played last year... I think we just played alot of bad QBs/offenses last year. 

 

And in a lot of those games our offense didn't put up a lot of points so there wasn't as much urgency to score against us like there is this year.

 

I feel like had we played tougher competition last year, our defense would have ranked more in the 10-15 range.

 

I think we have potentially a solid defense that will get better this year... I feel like our ceiling is probably in the 12-14 range overall. And our floor is probably about 18-20 overall when it's all over with.

 

As I reflect I think (at least for me) that was altering my perception of what this defense really was. I do think we were better than this year game for game just with a little bit younger talent that was a little more twitched up. But I still think had we played a schedule like this year we would have been more of a top 10ish team than a top 2 team.

Yes indeed, no Duck Rodgers and the rest of them this year.  Plus the D is shorthanded and injured.   Time to get real.   trust the process, McBeanes will continue to roster build and get the right guys on the field.   Gonna be another rough one on Monday night, but better from there.  

[Royale with Cheese]

To expect a dip in play should have been expected since we are playing better Quarterbacks.  It doesn't matter what defense you have or what team....facing more elite QB's mean you're going to give up more points.  But ours shouldn't have completely fallen off.  It's not just us, it's a league problem.  Or maybe it's not a problem, they wanted more offense.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It is, but you also have some teams still playing very good defense. Such as Baltimore, outside of one game against the best offensive team in football. 

 

You knew this defense wasn't the same after the Rams scored 28 points in a matter of ten minutes. 

 

The Ravens other games outside of the Chiefs are a combined 2-9.  

[billieve420]

Problem with these defense this year is they are not getting off the field on 3rd downs and instead of giving up FGs are giving up TDs.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Nah they smoked the Browns week 1.

 

I forgot about that game.  So adjusted, since I missed a week, outside of the Chiefs.

1-4 Texans

1-3-1 Benagals

1-4 Redskins

4-1 Browns

 

So 7-12-1.  So yes I agree with you....that's killer competition.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Royale with Cheese

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It’s not.... but I’m speaking strictly to the defense, and they’ve been good to very good outside of one game against the Chiefs.

Im incredibly disappointed in our defense so far, but I’d have to admit, I don’t think we’d be too worried if we played the Ravens schedule - the Texans, Washington and Bengals are pretty weak offenses. 
 

Edited October 16, 2020 by SCBills

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It’s not.... but I’m speaking strictly to the defense, and they’ve been good to very good outside of one game against the Chiefs.

 

So the argument that the Bills defense wasn't as good as we thought last year because of the level of competition can't be used....right?

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Your original post was defenses have fallen off across the league. Which is true, but some defenses haven’t, as an a example the Baltimore Ravens. Yes they’ve played three teams who aren’t very good and two teams with very good offenses and got shelled in one(Chiefs) and destroyed the other. (Browns)
 

Hell they allowed just 3 points to the Bengals. They are still a good defense, IMO.

 

How can you say they haven't when they have played bottom feeders?  If they start shutting down good offenses, then I will without a doubt say they are.

I'm not saying they aren't, I'm saying it's TBD.  After we play the Chiefs on Monday, we will have faced 5 teams that score 27 points or more per game.  3 of those 30 points per game and over.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

They held the Browns to 6 points opening day. The Browns have averaged like 35 points a game since then.😅

 

You're right, that without a doubt means they are good because they held the Browns to 6.  Chiefs game doesn't count and we won't take in the other competition.  

It also means that they have played better offenses than we have....clearly.

[JerseyBills]

What about 2017 and 18? 

I think the D is too simple to identify.  We play a bunch of Cover 3 and Quarters and teams are fairly easy dissecting the coverage. 

 

If an offense can identify a coverage fairly easily,  I don't care how much talent you have. It's going to be tough to stop and the D needs to play nearly perfect

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I never said any of those things lol.

 

Ok. Forget it. Every defense sucks. Does that make you feel better? 

 

It is absolutely what you're alluding to with using the Browns....which is why you put the laugh emoji.  

If the Ravens can hold the Steelers, Titans and Pats under 20 points, then I'll change my tune.  Right now with record scoring numbers, I'm not expecting it.  

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

So all defenses suck and all are one in the same? Is that your point? 

 

No, I'm saying we don't know how good they are because they have played some garbage teams.

They are a better defense than us last year and of course this year.  I just bring up the point because its being said that our defense wasn't really as good as we thought because our competition...which doesn't seem to be the same criteria with this Ravens defense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, akcash said:

Imo, I think our defense was elite relative to the teams we played last year... I think we just played alot of bad QBs/offenses last year. 

 

And in a lot of those games our offense didn't put up a lot of points so there wasn't as much urgency to score against us like there is this year.

 

I feel like had we played tougher competition last year, our defense would have ranked more in the 10-15 range.

 

I think we have potentially a solid defense that will get better this year... I feel like our ceiling is probably in the 12-14 range overall. And our floor is probably about 18-20 overall when it's all over with.

 

As I reflect I think (at least for me) that was altering my perception of what this defense really was. I do think we were better than this year game for game just with a little bit younger talent that was a little more twitched up. But I still think had we played a schedule like this year we would have been more of a top 10ish team than a top 2 team.

 

Our defense last year did a pretty durn good job of shutting down some top offenses last year.

 

Ravens: #1 offense in NFL on points, #2 on yards.  Season low on yards and 2nd lowest points in the 2nd half of the season (the half they got really Hot)

Cowboys: #1 offense in NFL on yards, #6 on points.  They gained a good bit of yards on us, but we held them to 15 points.

 

I don't know about the "our offense didn't put up a lot of points so there wasn't much urgency to score against us" argument.  I don't think well-coached teams take their foot off the gas that way.  Certainly NE and the Ravens and the Cowboys will score and score and score until you stop 'em.

 

[akcash]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Our defense last year did a pretty durn good job of shutting down some top offenses last year.

 

Ravens: #1 offense in NFL on points, #2 on yards.  Season low on yards and 2nd lowest points in the 2nd half of the season (the half they got really Hot)

Cowboys: #1 offense in NFL on yards, #6 on points.  They gained a good bit of yards on us, but we held them to 15 points.

 

I don't know about the "our offense didn't put up a lot of points so there wasn't much urgency to score against us" argument.  I don't think well-coached teams take their foot off the gas that way.  Certainly NE and the Ravens and the Cowboys will score and score and score until you stop 'em.

 

That's a fair side... I do think there is a collective subconscious element on playing to your competition and the situation of the game that lowers the urgency though. Some of that us credit to our defense too. They did do a great job against the ravens although they did give up 3 tds to Lamar alone. In that situation they're bleeding the clock to end the game too so I think the element of situation does come into play there. Cowboys game, Bills were hyped up for sure and credit they played great. Still think they played alot of bad offenses and that's why they were ranked so high... there were alot of times in 2018 and 17 when they got smoked against top offenses... Also Philly put up 30 on them.

Edited October 16, 2020 by akcash

[formerlyofCtown]

And what about the year before that?

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Our defense last year did a pretty durn good job of shutting down some top offenses last year.

 

Ravens: #1 offense in NFL on points, #2 on yards.  Season low on yards and 2nd lowest points in the 2nd half of the season (the half they got really Hot)

Cowboys: #1 offense in NFL on yards, #6 on points.  They gained a good bit of yards on us, but we held them to 15 points.

 

I don't know about the "our offense didn't put up a lot of points so there wasn't much urgency to score against us" argument.  I don't think well-coached teams take their foot off the gas that way.  Certainly NE and the Ravens and the Cowboys will score and score and score until you stop 'em.

 

Agreed.  If anything our D had to be on the field a lot more due to our offense not being great.

[Aussie Joe]

11 hours ago, billieve420 said:

Problem with these defense this year is they are not getting off the field on 3rd downs and instead of giving up FGs are giving up TDs.

Is this the break but don’t bend defense?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Is this the break but don’t bend defense?

ouch