Lorax discusses Tremaine Edmunds

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I have always thought that this defense has better personal for a 3-4 defense minus the space eating immovable NT and LB depth.

Wrecks? Is that you? 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 10/15/2020 at 9:14 PM, LeGOATski said:

Well, this validates my pov at least...

 

I haven't understood the Edmunds hate at all

 

...agree....I'd trust the assessment of Lorax.......and Edmunds is still a learning youngster.......

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...agree....I'd trust the assessment of Lorax.......and Edmunds is still a learning youngster.......

 

 

He's a 3rd year veteran........6th season as a college/pro LB.  

 

This has to be the first time in NFL history that a 3rd year QB has matured into a top dollar asset and the 3rd year MLB drafted the same year is still not considered seasoned enough to evaluate based on his production/performance. 

 

The time for excuses is over with Edmunds.   And frankly with the defensive coaching staff for using him in the middle.  

 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's a 3rd year veteran........6th season as a college/pro LB.  

 

This has to be the first time in NFL history that a 3rd year QB has matured into a top dollar asset and the 3rd year MLB drafted the same year is still not considered seasoned enough to evaluate based on his production/performance. 

 

The time for excuses is over with Edmunds.   And frankly with the defensive coaching staff for using him in the middle.  

 

This. Time for Edmunds to **** or get off the pot.  The pot being MLB.  This isn’t going to change this year.  He’s our MLB for 2020.  He’s a captain and makes the calls on D.  If his injury is keeping him from being an adequate MLB, he should sit until he’s healthy so we can evaluate him properly.  If his injury effects his play all year and it’s the excuse we hear all year, it will hurt us in 2021.  We have to figure out if he’s out MLB for 2021 ASAP.  He currently isn’t even worth his 5th year option. His play the rest of this season should determine his future as a Bill.  

[stevewin]

51 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

"Rest of the season" seems telling - wonder if it's a rotator cuff or something that he'll possibly get surgery for after the season is over.   

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

This. Time for Edmunds to **** or get off the pot.  The pot being MLB.  This isn’t going to change this year.  He’s our MLB for 2020.  He’s a captain and makes the calls on D.  If his injury is keeping him from being an adequate MLB, he should sit until he’s healthy so we can evaluate him properly.  If his injury effects his play all year and it’s the excuse we hear all year, it will hurt us in 2021.  We have to figure out if he’s out MLB for 2021 ASAP.  He currently isn’t even worth his 5th year option. His play the rest of this season should determine his future as a Bill.  

 

 

Yeah the 5th year option is going to be approximately $11M.

 

 I think there is zero chance that Beane doesn't pick that up because of the optics alone..........but he hasn't been worth that kind of dough.

 

The shoulder injury is a particularly bad turn of events because even if they had a guy emerge as a better, more instinctive MLB.........which could always happen at that position..........Edmunds would still be tough to evaluate as a pass rusher with a bad shoulder.

 

And while I have my fingers crossed that Johnson emerges as a potential elite pass rusher in the next 12 months.........the chances are that they will go into the offseason compelled to spend big $ on a pass rusher when IMO Edmunds should have been that guy by now.

 

[vincec]

29 minutes ago, stevewin said:

"Rest of the season" seems telling - wonder if it's a rotator cuff or something that he'll possibly get surgery for after the season is over.   

If that's the case then they might as well IR him and have the surgery now because he's not playing effectively. If he's not going to get better before the end of the season then you might as well get the process started and make sure he's right for next year.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, vincec said:

If that's the case then they might as well IR him and have the surgery now because he's not playing effectively. If he's not going to get better before the end of the season then you might as well get the process started and make sure he's right for next year.

 

 

Lack of depth prevents that.

 

Milano is on injury #2 already and Klein has been a huge disappointment as a free agent addition........he's been terrible.

 

If they had been honest about Edmunds performance at MLB and been open to giving him a little healthy competition they might now have the freedom to let him get his shoulder fixed or rested.....but they weren't.......they used the reserve MLB spot for Matakevich who can only play ST's.

 

I do think that Edmunds could play better late in the season or the playoffs..........his half-hearted effort in tackling is in part due to trying to nurse the injury thru the early season IMO.....and that's been the difference between being "meh" his first two seasons and just bad this year.

 

He also does have a history of flashing for a couple games per season..........raising his effort/intensity in a high profile game.   This Monday nighter will probably be their highest profile game nationally this regular season.   He should also be especially motivated by the criticism finally coming home to roost due to his poor play.    I am hoping he is jacked for Monday and makes a few big plays if nothing else.      

[spartacus]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

This. Time for Edmunds to **** or get off the pot.  The pot being MLB.  This isn’t going to change this year.  He’s our MLB for 2020.  He’s a captain and makes the calls on D.  If his injury is keeping him from being an adequate MLB, he should sit until he’s healthy so we can evaluate him properly.  If his injury effects his play all year and it’s the excuse we hear all year, it will hurt us in 2021.  We have to figure out if he’s out MLB for 2021 ASAP.  He currently isn’t even worth his 5th year option. His play the rest of this season should determine his future as a Bill.  

when you sit him to get healthy- who plays the mike?

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, spartacus said:

when you sit him to get healthy- who plays the mike?

we’re screwed.....but if the dude is that hurt that he plays like garbage, he shouldn’t play.

[spartacus]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

we’re screwed.....but if the dude is that hurt that he plays like garbage, he shouldn’t play.

great plan!

 

just play with 10

can''t be any worse, huh

[Scott7975]

On 10/16/2020 at 1:53 PM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Just a few more:

Dion Dawkins should be moved to guard.

Jordan Poyer sucked in Cleveland and will suck here too.

Cole Beasley kinda sucks.

 

We got the wrong Josh.

 

You forgot about the people that were mad we traded a first for Diggs.  Diggs only did well because of Thielen

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's a 3rd year veteran........6th season as a college/pro LB.  

 

This has to be the first time in NFL history that a 3rd year QB has matured into a top dollar asset and the 3rd year MLB drafted the same year is still not considered seasoned enough to evaluate based on his production/performance. 

 

The time for excuses is over with Edmunds.   And frankly with the defensive coaching staff for using him in the middle.  

 

So true. So tired of the "but he's still a youngster" gang. Spare me. When exactly will he be old enough to critique? 26, 29?? This is his 3rd season and he's making the same exact mistakes as we've witnessed the first 2 seasons. Maybe we'll hire Ray Lewis tomorrow and he'll miraculously turn him into a mlb. This isn't rocket science.  The coaches identified Fords weakness at RT and now he's a better G. Why can't they just slide Edmunds outside and be done with it. Oh wait, they can't.  They run a 4-2-5. As others have mentioned I'm almost down for going back to a 3-4.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/16/2020 at 9:18 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You're right.  Thought I'd corrected that.

 

IMO the PR was devastating: it was a 7-7 game at that point and Tenn then Buff had just exchanged punts.  So gift-wrapping a start for them on the Buff 30 that resulted in a TD and put them ahead was just crap.

 

 

100% agreed.

 

It must have seemed like Bizarro World to the defense. "We've defensed three drives. We've allowed a total of 62 yards on those three drives, and we're down 14-7. Something's not right."

 

 

On 10/17/2020 at 6:22 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Who said leading the NFL in tackles means nothing?    That player achieved that for a reason.   In Brown's case it was because the system funneled the work to him and he completed the tackles.   But as we know he was not an exceptional MLB,  he was a journeyman type.   Edmunds was expected to be extraordinary in that role.   He's not.

 

Also btw,  you are not yet up to internet dude level but keep tryin'.👌    (Seriously people........read the OP's before you respond blindly)

 

 

I think that's fair enough. Edmunds is not extraordinary yet.

 

So far just very very good when healthy.

 

16 hours ago, NewEra said:

we’re screwed.....but if the dude is that hurt that he plays like garbage, he shouldn’t play.

 

The problem appears to be that even hurt he's better than his healthy backup. That's why he's playing.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Thurman#1

[machine gun kelly]

I listened to Sal Friday morning on the Lorax dialogue he had with him on Edmunds.  Sal said we are built more for a 4-3 given our players, but hypothetically Sal thought Edmunds is best suited for a MLB in the traditional 3-4.  The 3-4 doesn’t fit into what McDermott likes to do in his scheme.  I’m sure he can do it if he wanted to do so.  We would definitely need Star for that to happen, and McD learned under Jimmy Johnson In Philly who loved the 3-4.
 

I think people are piling a little on Edmunds. He’s made some mistakes, but he also is trying to play hurt.

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...agree....I'd trust the assessment of Lorax.......and Edmunds is still a learning youngster.......

 

 

Yup. The haters (it's a word I find kinda stupid, but Edmunds really does seem to have them) want to say that he should be ready.

 

Fact is plenty of guys have made huge leaps during and after their third years. Lawrence Taylor sure wasn't Lawrence Taylor his first three years. He was very good (so is Edmunds when healthy), but he still had major improvements to make. Derrick Brooks was tackling people but still hadn't fully figured out pass defense till his late third and early fourth years. James Harrison, certainly, and there are plenty more.

 

And before the nonsense starts, I'm not comparing Edmunds to them except in one way. They (and many others) prove that it's perfectly possible, in fact pretty common, for LBs to make major leaps later in their careers than Edmunds has yet reached.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Thurman#1

[NoSaint]

13 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yup. The haters (it's a word I find kinda stupid, but Edmunds really does seem to have them) want to say that he should be ready.

 

Fact is plenty of guys have made huge leaps during and after their third years. Lawrence Taylor sure wasn't Lawrence Taylor his first three years. He was very good (so is Edmunds when healthy), but he still had major improvements to make. Derrick Brooks was tackling people but still hadn't fully figured out pass defense till his late third and early fourth years. James Harrison, certainly, and there are plenty more.

 

And before the nonsense starts, I'm not comparing Edmunds to them except in one way. They prove that it's perfectly possible, in fact pretty common, for LBs to make major leaps later in their careers than Edmunds has yet reached.

 

 

 

 

we live in a pretty amazing world where damn near anything is possible. 
 

it’s a terrible baseline for discussion.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/17/2020 at 3:40 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) Lorax is an internet dude now.   He also gets paid to make guest appearances on radio and has a close, mentor-teacher relationship with the player he is being asked to critique.   If you are expecting his unobjective opinion then you are naive.  Now if Edmunds was some dude on some other team I am sure Lorax would tell you about the importance of instincts for a linebacker.   But since Edmunds lacks them.........its not a point of discussion.

 

2) I contest the notion that Edmunds absolutely has produced.   Preston fricken' Brown lead the NFL in tackles in this defense in 2017.  It's designed to create plays for the MLB to make.  That's why they invested so much in acquiring Edmunds relative to where the league typically values that position.  Edmunds has greatly underachieved statistically as a result of his lack of instincts for the position. 

 

 

I love it, "Lorax is an internet dude now," like this makes you and him equally knowledgeable.

 

Two in a row in terms of giving perfect, textbook examples of what I described. The old "you're so naive, everybody knows he's lying except you, since we know he's lying because he disagreed with me" ploy. And it's flagrant, ridiculous nonsense.

 

I'll tell you want everybody at this point knows - with the apparent exception of you - and that is that if your irons in the fire stop you from criticizing someone there are a million ways to act that are smarter and better in both the short and the long-term than to lie. Assuming that because he has an iron in the fire (questionable but possible) that he's lying is utter nonsense. Guys who are obvious team shills lose credibility, and fast. Their opinions are rapidly less sought after because they're predictable.

 

And again, there are a million ways to avoid lying and keep your credibility. First, you can just not comment. Simplest thing in the world. But the easiest and most common thing to do if you must comment is to pick one of the infinite number of ways to play Crash Davis. "Tremaine Edmunds is a smart young man. I want him on my side in an alley fight anytime." Or "This guy gives 110% out there game in and game out." Or "The Bills should be proud to have such a fine representative on the field living up to the fine tradition of the blue, white and red." There's a million of them. Probably a billion. You don't have to say anything specific.

 

When instead a guy makes a specific relevant comment - as Lorax does here - it should be believed. There are so many ways to avoid doing it that when they choose that direction, it means something. And when you refuse to believe him, what's spectacularly clear is that the guy not to be believed is the one out there doubting the experts.

 

You're right about one thing. It's not even a point of discussion. When healthy, Edmunds has produced very well indeed. Again, you're correct that "extraordinary" would be an overstatement, but he's been a very solid producer, one of the three or so best players on a defense that was terrific the past two years.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Thurman#1

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

100% agreed.

 

It must have seemed like Bizarro World to the defense. "We've defensed three drives. We've allowed a total of 62 yards on those three drives, and we're down 14-7. Something's not right."

 

 

 

 

I think that's fair enough. Edmunds is not extraordinary yet.

 

So far just very very good when healthy.

 

 

The problem appears to be that even hurt he's better than his healthy backup. That's why he's playing.

yeah.....but that’s the problem.  The guy is hurt and risking getting hurt even more because he’d be better than his backup?  How about we let the guy heal so he can actually be 💯 at some point this year.  You say that he’s “very good” when healthy..... so why not try and get him healthy?  Answering:  because he’s better than his backup, doesn’t make any sense with regards to trying to get him 💯.  That should be our priority with him imo.  We need “very good” Tremaine.  “Injured and crappy” Tremaine is a waste imo.  
 

my theory is based on:  when Tremaine is injured, he sucks.  When Tremaine is healthy, he’s very good.  Priority should be getting him healthy ASAP instead of wallowing in the middle of healthy and hurt.  Being in no mans land isn’t a good place for Tremaine from my observation