wnyguy Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, BeerLeagueHockey said: So what is this new hip place called that many people flocked to?? Yeah, what is this new site?
GG Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 9 hours ago, SDS said: I know... We are still here... 22 years later. Everyone has always been welcome regardless where you came from, BBI, BZ, BBMB, wherever. This encapsulates the answer you're looking for, as well as other posts in various threads, specifically Former's spotlight vs floodlight analogy. You should also ask yourself why have you been brought into this corner of the site that you've historically avoided, and are trying to figure out what happened. So in summary, this place has existed (with bumps along the way) for 20+ years, and has developed a pretty decent system of raw survival of the fittest posting style. The rules were pretty simple - open dialogue and rude exchanges were common, but among people with tough skins. There's a reason many people don't like to visit these lands, because to many, the discourse is too rough. Those people stayed away, and left the proverbial jailhouse yard to the inmates. Things changed at the start of the year with an influx of people who were intent on taking the site down. I argued they were bots, you disagreed. But that's really immaterial to these posters' agenda. They don't come here to converse. They come to disrupt. That has also happened before, but the self-policing that's existed here over the decades drove them away. The other major difference this time is a handful of new whiners who openly state that they don't like this site, despite continuing to post, and run to mommy for help. Yeah, Greggy stepped over the line. But that's like flagging Jerry Hughes for a visible personal foul, but ignoring his facemask being pulled for the 10 previous plays. That's why you were called into this mess, when you have more pressing things. So to recap - why did this site suddenly become an issue over the last 6 months, when it's handled its own issues pretty well before? Is it really the posters who've been a consistent presence here for years, decades? Answering these questions honestly will go a long way to getting the solution that you seek. 6 4 3
The Frankish Reich Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, GG said: So to recap - why did this site suddenly become an issue over the last 6 months, when it's handled its own issues pretty well before? Is it really the posters who've been a consistent presence here for years, decades? Answering these questions honestly will go a long way to getting the solution that you seek. No denying I'm new to PPP. I don't think I ever posted here until this summer. My understanding is that it started out with a diversity of opinions and what we could call spirited arguments. More recently it became dominated by posters of a certain political philosophy or mindset. Those with different opinions were considered interlopers and typically were shot down. In other words, over time PPP began to function not as an open forum, but as a club -- effectively invitation only because disagreement was not tolerated. If it is a club in practice, then it might as well become a club in name and in structure. Me? I have no interest in communicating only with people who think like me. So I have no interest in a club. 6 1
bdutton Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: No denying I'm new to PPP. I don't think I ever posted here until this summer. My understanding is that it started out with a diversity of opinions and what we could call spirited arguments. More recently it became dominated by posters of a certain political philosophy or mindset. Those with different opinions were considered interlopers and typically were shot down. In other words, over time PPP began to function not as an open forum, but as a club -- effectively invitation only because disagreement was not tolerated. If it is a club in practice, then it might as well become a club in name and in structure. Me? I have no interest in communicating only with people who think like me. So I have no interest in a club. There were a number of new posters that posted childish memes and repetitive mindless arguments that was the equivalent of spam and not interesting or compelling content. Edited October 16, 2020 by bdutton 1
shoshin Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, bdutton said: There were a number of new posters that posted childish memes and repetitive mindless arguments that was the equivalent of spam and not interesting or compelling content. Posting memes, retweets, and videos unrelated to the topic being discussed predates anything that happened 6 months ago. It's just that some new people came in posting the other side's nonsense. 1
bdutton Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 I say we should leave it as it is. But moderation of the members posting here should be very limited. Banning from the site should come only after an extreme violation of the TOS. Members should make use of the ignore function if there are members content they want to avoid.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 Harping back to a question asked previously, if we were to start a club as the alternative: - Are you able to move forum posts to a club? If not, will politically charged threads that were previously moved here now just be removed altogether? - If a club is open - I assume a PPP alternative should be - and a club moderator boots someone, can they just rejoin?
SDS Posted October 16, 2020 Author Posted October 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Harping back to a question asked previously, if we were to start a club as the alternative: - Are you able to move forum posts to a club? If not, will politically charged threads that were previously moved here now just be removed altogether? - If a club is open - I assume a PPP alternative should be - and a club moderator boots someone, can they just rejoin? lots of posts to respond to this morning, I just happen to be responding to this one since it’s easiest. LOL 1. I can move all posts into a club 2. A club can be set up in multiple ways. Anyone can join, only approved members can be join, or only invited members can join. Clubs only makes sense if there is a critical mass of people who want it to happen though. 2
daz28 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 A club by definition is just that. It wouldn't be about politics, it'd be about reaffirming what you already believe. The whole principle of politics is to have varying opinions. Clubs are basically the inverse of politics. I, like Frankish have no need or interest in a club, because I get my own news, which is pretty much all a club would be good for. I'd maybe browse it, and occasionally add to someone's point. I've learned some things from people with opposing views here, but rarely post, because people are too coarse. 2
Tiberius Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, bdutton said: There were a number of new posters that posted childish memes and repetitive mindless arguments that was the equivalent of spam and not interesting or compelling content. BMan? 1 1
shoshin Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, daz28 said: A club by definition is just that. It wouldn't be about politics, it'd be about reaffirming what you already believe. The whole principle of politics is to have varying opinions. Clubs are basically the inverse of politics. I, like Frankish have no need or interest in a club, because I get my own news, which is pretty much all a club would be good for. I'd maybe browse it, and occasionally add to someone's point. I've learned some things from people with opposing views here, but rarely post, because people are too coarse. 100% agree. The issue here is not multiple views under one roof. Lots of people including me want that. The issue was civility, which is on the rise recently. Edited October 16, 2020 by shoshin 1
Tiberius Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 Used to be the right wingers would just shout down everyone here. Now it gets more fair and its suddenly a problem. Unreal 3 2
Teddy KGB Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, shoshin said: The issue was civility, which is on the rise recently. Are you Mary Poppins ?
wnyguy Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, shoshin said: 100% agree. The issue here is not multiple views under one roof. Lots of people including me want that. The issue was civility, which is on the rise recently. Says you, you sniveling twit. I blow my nose at you. J/K couldn't resist 1
Tiberius Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, wnyguy said: Says you, you sniveling twit. I blow my nose at you. J/K couldn't resist During a pandemic!!! 1
Reality Check Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 People need to lighten up and approach conflict with humor and some silliness. There is a little too much seriousness sometimes in terms of people just needing to walk away from each other voluntarily. Name calling and throwing labels around never ends well. Ridicule can be a little more creative and abstract sometimes, and if for nothing else, have something to laugh about. This pandemic has destroyed many people's sense of humor, and if we lose that, then all the more reason for us to kick it on PPP. People have to laugh at their own BS every now and then. If you encounter hateful people, ignoring them is the only option. It's a great feature. I apologize for speaking like a hard core right wing Nazi for suggesting humor when things get to heated. Live long, and prosper... 1
Taro T Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 9 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Yep. Not much real football going on, an extremely heated political season (and let's face it, politics talk is kind of a substitute for sports talk), and work at home is why I started poking around here after years of ignoring it. I tend to be interested in polls and political analysis -- punditry I guess -- and some posters here have interesting perspectives and expertise in areas I'm not so well versed in. So that's fun. If PPP were gone I don't think I'd go looking for a substitute as perhaps some defectors from TBD will do. That just strikes me as weird. PPP is here as an adjunct to a football fan site -- a really good one by the way -- so it's easy to move between football and politics. But I understand that PPP kind of sprung up organically rather than as some kind of grand plan that the combination Football Talk + Politics Talk is some kind of aging guy's nirvana (there are a few younger posters, but my sense is the median age here is higher than even I care to admit). So to answer SDS's question: great if you can keep it and keep it reasonably under control. If not, well, I'll survive. Final thought: all of the people here agitating about repealing Section 230 -- what exactly do you think would happen if 230 were gone and the owners of a website could be sued for, oh, I don't know, some poster accusing a prominent person (or even a fellow poster) of being a pedophile with no evidence whatsoever? If you think outrageous/fringey thoughts are being stifled by Twitter/FB/Google, just wait to see how much they'll be stifled by a flurry of lawsuits against owners of web forums ... For the most part, the talk of "repealing" Section 230 isn't about doing away with section 230, but rather clarifying how/whether the social media companies should continue to recieve exemption from libel liability as if they were ISPs when they now are effecting editorial policies as if they are publishers which do not enjoy an exception from libel liability. Right now, they are having it both ways. They claim they are merely conduits but also they now effect editorial control. That's not right. And Paj has said they will be promulgating new regulations based upon existing laws. 1
The Frankish Reich Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 20 minutes ago, Reality Check said: People need to lighten up and approach conflict with humor and some silliness. There is a little too much seriousness sometimes in terms of people just needing to walk away from each other voluntarily. Name calling and throwing labels around never ends well. Ridicule can be a little more creative and abstract sometimes, and if for nothing else, have something to laugh about. This pandemic has destroyed many people's sense of humor, and if we lose that, then all the more reason for us to kick it on PPP. People have to laugh at their own BS every now and then. If you encounter hateful people, ignoring them is the only option. It's a great feature. I apologize for speaking like a hard core right wing Nazi for suggesting humor when things get to heated. Live long, and prosper... You know what? I'd actually like to say thanks. Humor has it's place. Folks need to have a thick skin in these days. 1 1
RochesterRob Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 Reading through the most recent responses SDS wants a low effort and painless solution to his problem and there is not one.
snafu Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: No denying I'm new to PPP. I don't think I ever posted here until this summer. My understanding is that it started out with a diversity of opinions and what we could call spirited arguments. More recently it became dominated by posters of a certain political philosophy or mindset. Those with different opinions were considered interlopers and typically were shot down. In other words, over time PPP began to function not as an open forum, but as a club -- effectively invitation only because disagreement was not tolerated. If it is a club in practice, then it might as well become a club in name and in structure. Me? I have no interest in communicating only with people who think like me. So I have no interest in a club. I disagree with your premise. There are people posting from all different perspectives. The difference between how they're treated is how they approach a dialogue. I admit that there are some flamethrowers, but the flames die down quickly if they're not fed. Simple -- act like an adult. If someone annoys you, ignore them by either ignoring their posts, or putting them on "ignore". 2
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