What would you like to see be done here?

[LB3]

5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I don't think that you get it.  PPP outposts the other forums by a wide margin which can be important in terms of revenue.  I don't think SDS would have the least bit of concern in terms of shutting down PPP if it amounted to an unwanted appendix.  The other site only appears echo-ey to those who are.................................  It may not have been your mission to shut down PPP for hidden nefarious purposes but it certainly was for others here.

The others just threw chitbombs everywhere. SectionC3 literally thinks everyone that disagrees with him is a Nazi. BillStime posts the same memes nonstop. TBBills is barely literate. GoBuffalo716 is a POS ghoul who asks people to see their loved ones obits. Gary is mentally unstable.

 

Tibs was cool. Crayola64 is a good contributor. Frank Reich offered some good perspective. Transplant engaged. Doc Brown was good. Kay Adams, K9, Jauronimo, Section 122 were all good when they stopped down.

 

Shoshin on the other hand might be the most insufferable crybaby I've ever seen on this site. A stalker evidently too. Let's take a dive in on him. Joined in 2016. Didn't post again until March 2020. He posted damn near exclusively in PPP until recently. Still spends more time in PPP. Cried over and over about how he hates PPP and wants it shut down yet posts here more often than on TSW. After SDS gave an explanation about recent events, he played cheerleader about the banning. Actively trying to prevent discussion. Now he's searching out those members who left and letting everyone know so he can PM them about it. I say this sincerely. Shoshin is a pathetic person. The living embodiment of "taking my ball and going home".

[RochesterRob]

7 minutes ago, SDS said:

This has been said erroneously before. I routinely dump posts from the stadium wall into the archive. I’m not sure I have done that here in 10 years or more if ever. There is something like 8 million posts in our database. 800,000 are here of which of the majority are from a smaller group.

  You're at a crossroads and only you know the full magnitude of your decision.  Either salvage PPP or let it spin into oblivion.  What other direction is there?  People are voting with their time as to where they want to be as I type this response.  Where do you want them to be?

5 minutes ago, LB3 said:

The others just threw chitbombs everywhere. SectionC3 literally thinks everyone that disagrees with him is a Nazi. BillStime posts the same memes nonstop. TBBills is barely literate. GoBuffalo716 is a POS ghoul who asks people to see their loved ones obits. Gary is mentally unstable.

 

Tibs was cool. Crayola64 is a good contributor. Frank Reich offered some good perspective. Transplant engaged. Doc Brown was good. Kay Adams, K9, Jauronimo, Section 122 were all good when they stopped down.

 

Shoshin on the other hand might be the most insufferable crybaby I've ever seen on this site. A stalker evidently too. Let's take a dive in on him. Joined in 2016. Didn't post again until March 2020. He posted damn near exclusively in PPP until recently. Still spends more time in PPP. Cried over and over about how he hates PPP and wants it shut down yet posts here more often than on TSW. After SDS gave an explanation about recent events, he played cheerleader about the banning. Actively trying to prevent discussion. Now he's searching out those members who left and letting everyone know so he can PM them about it. I say this sincerely. Shoshin is a pathetic person. The living embodiment of "taking my ball and going home".

  We will differ on who was a good lefty poster but I agree that there are a few.  I think posters such as Kay would be welcome on the other site as she maintains good manners and decorum.

[LB3]

3 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  You're at a crossroads and only you know the full magnitude of your decision.  Either salvage PPP or let it spin into oblivion.  What other direction is there?  People are voting with their time as to where they want to be as I type this response.  Where do you want them to be?

  We will differ on who was a good lefty poster but I agree that there are a few.  I think posters such as Kay would be welcome on the other site as she maintains good manners and decorum.

I rarely agreed. They just tried to discuss. And Tibs is my guy. He and I never got into it. I respected his ability to hang in here.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

 

Many are not, as you've become aware.  It is for people to sift through that on their own, or be mature enough to stop jumping into the muck.  There IS discussion.  There used to be much more of it.

 

You're the boss, but I think I'd wait until after the election is finalized.  This sub-forum may self-correct.

 

 

 

 

I'm with snafu on his points above and the others he's made in the rest of his posts.   I come to PPP to discuss political issues, and it's hard to have discussions if everybody shares the same views, which I'm afraid might likely happen in the club format.

[SDS]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  You're at a crossroads and only you know the full magnitude of your decision.  Either salvage PPP or let it spin into oblivion.  What other direction is there?  People are voting with their time as to where they want to be as I type this response.  Where do you want them to be?

 

My opinion is this:

 

1. We have the best Bills forum anywhere. Always have. I hope that continues. Right/left/black/white/green are all welcome here. 

2. I have my reservations about PPP and I am not able to fix political discourse. It has morphed into its own club. Usually when they happens, club members get annoyed with others.  It always happens. It has happened before and it will happen again. That's the life cycle of social groups. However, given the evolution as a group to being more clubby than open, I think moving it to a self-contained club makes total sense. It relieves a lot of pain points. I think it gives everyone what they want.

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

I'm with snafu on his points above and the others he's made in the rest of his posts.   I come to PPP to discuss political issues, and it's hard to have discussions if everybody shares the same views, which I'm afraid might likely happen in the club format.

 

Threading that needle, in an open forum, is difficult. 

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

 

My opinion is this:

 

1. We have the best Bills forum anywhere. Always have. I hope that continues. Right/left/black/white/green are all welcome here. 

2. I have my reservations about PPP and I am not able to fix political discourse. It has morphed into its own club. Usually when they happens, club members get annoyed with others.  It always happens. It has happened before and it will happen again. That's the life cycle of social groups. However, given the evolution as a group to being more clubby than open, I think moving it to a self-contained club makes total sense. It relieves a lot of pain points. I think it gives everyone what they want.

  Yes, as I have said previously.  Clubs do deteriorate due to personalities butting heads which means they are not a long term answer.  

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I'm with snafu on his points above and the others he's made in the rest of his posts.   I come to PPP to discuss political issues, and it's hard to have discussions if everybody shares the same views, which I'm afraid might likely happen in the club format.

  Not For Long as Jerry Glanville used to say if a dissenter surfaces in a small club.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

18 minutes ago, LB3 said:

Gary is mentally unstable

 

What the ***** is your problem?

[SDS]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  Yes, as I have said previously.  Clubs do deteriorate due to personalities butting heads which means they are not a long term answer.  

 

I'm not sure what you are saying here. 🤷‍♂️

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

I'm not sure what you are saying here. 🤷‍♂️

  People will cease coming here as their feelings are irreparably hurt with no alternative group plus a desire to find a place to discuss politics.  I've been apart of clubs for well over 25 years and have seen it time and again.  PPP is a semi-neutral zone where someone can maneuver away from an awkward encounter by simply walking away for a few hours or jump into a different topic.  

[shrader]

What exactly is the difference between an open club and what this forum currently is? That’s one thing I’ve never been clear on since you started them here and on sabrespace. I see that they can have their own moderators, but does that mean you and your mods never touch them or can’t touch them (other than you, of course)? I’d have to imagine that if you became aware of something you don’t want on your site, you and probably others have the power to shut that down. 
 

So if that’s the case, is it essentially a sub-forum with an additional moderator or two?

[SDS]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  People will cease coming here as their feelings are irreparably hurt with no alternative group plus a desire to find a place to discuss politics.  I've been apart of clubs for well over 25 years and have seen it time and again.  PPP is a semi-neutral zone where someone can maneuver away from an awkward encounter by simply walking away for a few hours or jump into a different topic.  

 

When I say "clubs" I am talking about the software feature we have. You may not be aware of it.

 

I don't see many people maneuvering away unfortunately. 

2 minutes ago, shrader said:

What exactly is the difference between an open club and what this forum currently is? That’s one thing I’ve never been clear on since you started them here and on sabrespace. I see that they can have their own moderators, but does that mean you and your mods never touch them or can’t touch them (other than you, of course)? I’d have to imagine that if you became aware of something you don’t want on your site, you and probably others have the power to shut that down. 
 

So if that’s the case, is it essentially a sub-forum with an additional moderator or two?

 

A club has like 5 different options - open, closed, read only, invite only... something like that.

 

It makes it unofficial which is nice. Obviously an admin can do anything, but there isn't even a report post function there. The club owner can appoint mods on their own. 

[shoshin]

36 minutes ago, LB3 said:

Now he's searching out those members who left and letting everyone know so he can PM them about it.

 

WTF? I got a link to that site and went over and looked and told some people about it, just like others told me. 

 

Trust me: I'm not stalking anyone but based on all your research about me, I'd nominate you as stalker. I posted almost exclusively in the Covid discussion because, well, it is kind of a headline. And then got drawn into the discussion DR started about the merits of PPP. You guys didn't like my opinion and literally couldn't even handle my suggestion so you all went ape and attacked me. I didn't report anyone (though many of you accused me of running DR off). I don't have some purpose-driven reason to shut down PPP or close it off as a club as SDS suggests. I just gave my thoughts, which was too much for some folks.

 

You guys go enjoy the alternative. It's exactly what I suggested could happen. 

 

And by the way, thanks for casting your judgment on a bunch of people. Nice of you. I commented on DR because so many made him the the topic du jour a few weeks ago. He's gone. Life goes on. 

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  I don't think that you get it.  PPP outposts the other forums by a wide margin which can be important in terms of revenue.  I don't think SDS would have the least bit of concern in terms of shutting down PPP if it amounted to an unwanted appendix.  The other site only appears echo-ey to those who are.................................  It may not have been your mission to shut down PPP for hidden nefarious purposes but it certainly was for others here.

 

I had no nefarious purpose. I was open about why I thought PPP was a problem. A lot of people didn't like my opinion and LB3 has been so kind as to start researching my deeper life, which is not weird at all. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by shoshin

[SDS]

1 hour ago, DFT said:

But I hope that with impartial moderation, PPP can someday flourish.

 

The moderation here has almost been non-existent., so it certainly wasn't biased. DR had 55k posts in here. C'mon, man.

 

I am not aware of a single person whose viewpoint was suppressed. I personally acted on member v. member events. Any other suggestion isn't true. 

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

The moderation here has almost been non-existent., so it certainly wasn't biased. DR had 55k posts in here. C'mon, man.

 

I am not aware of a single person whose viewpoint was suppressed. I personally acted on member v. member events. Any other suggestion isn't true. 

 

You banned one guy and people lost their mind. Oh well. 

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

You banned one guy and people lost their mind. Oh well. 

  Far from being the cause for the exodus.

[LB3]

40 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

WTF? I got a link to that site and went over and looked and told some people about it, just like others told me. 

 

Trust me: I'm not stalking anyone but based on all your research about me, I'd nominate you as stalker. I posted almost exclusively in the Covid discussion because, well, it is kind of a headline. And then got drawn into the discussion DR started about the merits of PPP. You guys didn't like my opinion and literally couldn't even handle my suggestion so you all went ape and attacked me. I didn't report anyone (though many of you accused me of running DR off). I don't have some purpose-driven reason to shut down PPP or close it off as a club as SDS suggests. I just gave my thoughts, which was too much for some folks.

 

You guys go enjoy the alternative. It's exactly what I suggested could happen. 

 

And by the way, thanks for casting your judgment on a bunch of people. Nice of you. I commented on DR because so many made him the the topic du jour a few weeks ago. He's gone. Life goes on. 

 

I had no nefarious purpose. I was open about why I thought PPP was a problem. A lot of people didn't like my opinion and LB3 has been so kind as to start researching my deeper life, which is not weird at all. 

Keep crying. I literally looked at your posting history for 10 minutes. Like you did with DR. "Deeper life." 🤣

 

I'll now comment on your deeper life. I bet you have a fainting couch.

[SDS]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  Far from being the cause for the exodus.

 

But let's be clear, no one's opinion was being suppressed. No biased moderators were acting on left/right biases. I hope that you would agree that is a fair statement. If it wasn't fair, the list of individual grievances would be a mile long.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

 

But let's be clear, no one's opinion was being suppressed. No biased moderators were acting on left/right biases. I hope that you would agree that is a fair statement. If it wasn't fair, the list of individual grievances would be a mile long.

  You need to revisit C3's Nobody Stood Up thread.  He starts with a premise that people are starting to stand up to Trump as though Trump is attempting to imitate Hitler.  There is so much wrong with that so it is insulting to a thinking person's intellect.  Hitler almost immediately eliminated a free press.  The American media is free to savage Trump 24/7.  Hitler took away guns from the average German citizen.  Trump supports the Second Amendment.  C3 does not support his argument that Trump is a modern day Hitler by any stretch of the imagination.  The thread is inaccurate as to premise and is inflammatory.  This goes on nearly everyday here as of late.

[KD in CA]

14 minutes ago, DFT said:

Being new and in relative good standing, I do want to say that what was just 6 months ago, a very solid place for people like me to speak freely about political beliefs, has turned quickly into a chaotic, antagonistic breeding ground for trolling.  In all fairness, I don’t have the history to know what transpired before I arrived.  But since arriving, I’ve seen firsthand, that the decent conversations had between opposing viewpoints are MASSIVELY and intentionally derailed by (my guess), the same trolls that derailed and forced a very tough decision in closing BBMB.  It’s unfortunate.  
 

I’ve tried on many, many occasions to have civil conversations with these folks, but their intentions and interests aren’t discussions, but rather attempts at causing disruption.  It’s become so bad, that it absolutely has caused good posters to succumb to their human instinct and react to them.  DR was a phenomenal contributor, who like many of us, grew tired of the nonstop antagonistic, multi-username trolling.  I say that not through a conservative lens, but an honest and ethical viewpoint having watched it all, personally.  
What’s worse, is the conversations that were allowed to transpire after he could no longer defend himself, both publicly on the forum and ESPECIALLY in the shout box.  It’s very unfortunate.  I don’t fault any one person, but I do suggest a non-partial moderator for this forum (and unfortunately based on my observations, that does not currently exist with all due and sincere respect).  I’ve seen some ugliness on the shoutbox from two of your mods (regarding faith and politics) that in my opinion rivals anything I’ve found offensive on PPP.  It was disappointing for me to read and I believe honestly that Mods should be held to an impartial standard where they’re not censored, but are expected to hold back the extreme sides of their viewpoints.  

Solid summary.   Regarding the shoutbox ugliness referred to, I have seen more moderation based on personal opinions than recall in the past.  Will leave it at that.  Maybe not directly on this forum, but overall observation.

 

19 minutes ago, LB3 said:

The others just threw chitbombs everywhere. SectionC3 literally thinks everyone that disagrees with him is a Nazi. BillStime posts the same memes nonstop. TBBills is barely literate. GoBuffalo716 is a POS ghoul who asks people to see their loved ones obits. Gary is mentally unstable.

 

Tibs was cool. Crayola64 is a good contributor. Frank Reich offered some good perspective. Transplant engaged. Doc Brown was good. Kay Adams, K9, Jauronimo, Section 122 were all good when they stopped down.

 

Shoshin on the other hand might be the most insufferable crybaby I've ever seen on this site. A stalker evidently too. Let's take a dive in on him. Joined in 2016. Didn't post again until March 2020. He posted damn near exclusively in PPP until recently. Still spends more time in PPP. Cried over and over about how he hates PPP and wants it shut down yet posts here more often than on TSW. After SDS gave an explanation about recent events, he played cheerleader about the banning. Actively trying to prevent discussion. Now he's searching out those members who left and letting everyone know so he can PM them about it. I say this sincerely. Shoshin is a pathetic person. The living embodiment of "taking my ball and going home".

Accurate.  Want to start fixing this forum?  Ban the trolls listed in the first paragraph.  Somehow this place lasted for 20 years before everything went off the rails a few months ago.  Sooo....what changed?  It worked for so long because the established posters (on both sides of the political aisle) didn't tolerate idiots who started ten different "xxx = HITLER!!" threads.   But now that's the accepted norm.  Oh well.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

  You need to revisit C3's Nobody Stood Up thread.  He starts with a premise that people are starting to stand up to Trump as though Trump is attempting to imitate Hitler.  There is so much wrong with that so it is insulting to a thinking person's intellect.  Hitler almost immediately eliminated a free press.  The American media is free to savage Trump 24/7.  Hitler took away guns from the average German citizen.  Trump supports the Second Amendment.  C3 does not support his argument that Trump is a modern day Hitler by any stretch of the imagination.  The thread is inaccurate as to premise and is inflammatory.  This goes on nearly everyday here as of late.

 

Do you think I could find something as offensive as that from someone else? If I looked up socialism/Russia/communism/etc... I wouldn't find hyperbole?

 

Regardless, my point is - no one has been going through imposing their biases on others. I was hoping we could agree on that.