What would you like to see be done here?

[SDS]

14 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

But therein lies the problem.  Disagree with the dozen or so people who practice far right politics?  Be characterized as a purveyor if hate speech.  It’s outrageous.  
 

The core issue here is that this place probably was a right wing echo chamber that eventually devolved into QAnon culture.  Dissenting voices are not tolerated.  If the goal is to be a message board form of OAN and an outlet for Q culture, go for it.  But it would be better if it was a place where truth and variety of opinion is preferred.  

no one is going to talk with anyone who drops Hitler references. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

 

Yes, it would make a difference.

For some of us, having a diversity of views, no matter how simply or immaturely they are expressed, is actually a good thing.  People who want to reside in an echo chamber can go somewhere else.  The thing about the most recent PPP turmoil is that posters came into this subforum and tried to change it, rather than adapting or leaving it alone.  Transferring PPP to "club" status whereby club moderators can open or close topics off to others isn't really a "dialogue".  I understand that people aren't here to have their minds changed or be converted, but it is good to be reminded that others have different views.  The long-time moderator here has made it pretty clear with his posts that he's got a fairly conservative take on the world -- but you don't see him banning voices that don't share his world view.  That's the way it should be.

 

Edit: is there a way that a moderator can ban a person from a particular sub-forum?

 

 

 

 

 

To the edit: yes, at least 1 poster that was banned from PPP back in 43's day was never banned from & stillposts today on TSW.

[shoshin]

The gang who got upset already created their own forum. I won't post the link but happy to share by email if you want it or I can post it if you approve. It's a "Bills" forum where the political posts already appear to be well-outpacing the Bills talk. More or less a recreation of what was happening here but more echo-ey.

 

I'd say that you can spin this out on its own or just let those interested follow the conspiracy crowd over to that place and just shut PPP down. There are a million political outlets now, not the least of which is Twitter.

 

Shutting PPP down or spinning it away from TBD as a club will make TBD a more collegial place. Both make sense to me and I already advocated for it. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by shoshin

[Taro T]

38 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

But therein lies the problem.  Disagree with the dozen or so people who practice far right politics?  Be characterized as a purveyor if hate speech.  It’s outrageous.  
 

The core issue here is that this place probably was a right wing echo chamber that eventually devolved into QAnon culture.  Dissenting voices are not tolerated.  If the goal is to be a message board form of OAN and an outlet for Q culture, go for it.  But it would be better if it was a place where truth and variety of opinion is preferred.  

 

Cool.  Good to see that 2 weeks after you helped get DR banned that you are still on your little passive aggressive woe is me roll. 

[shoshin]

41 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

But therein lies the problem.  Disagree with the dozen or so people who practice far right politics?  Be characterized as a purveyor if hate speech.  It’s outrageous.  
 

The core issue here is that this place probably was a right wing echo chamber that eventually devolved into QAnon culture.  Dissenting voices are not tolerated.  If the goal is to be a message board form of OAN and an outlet for Q culture, go for it.  But it would be better if it was a place where truth and variety of opinion is preferred.  

 

That gang is gone. They drop in here from time to time but they've reconvened elsewhere. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

I see.

Then there would be as many clubs are there are PPP topics in order for moderation to really work.

 

Not following that?  Can have different topics in clubs

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

The gang who got upset already created their own forum. I won't post the link but happy to share by email if you want it or I can post it if you approve. It's a "Bills" forum where the political posts already appear to be well-outpacing the Bills talk, with the banned guy right back on track to post 50 retweets a day. More or less a recreation of what was happening here but more echo-ey.

 

I'd say that you can spin this out on its own or just let those interested follow the conspiracy crowd over to that place and just shut PPP down. There are a million political outlets now, not the least of which is Twitter.

Shutting PPP down or spinning it away from TBD will make TBD a more collegial place.

 

You've won.  But don't let that stop you from pursuing your white whale.

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, shoshin said:

The gang who got upset already created their own forum. I won't post the link but happy to share by email if you want it or I can post it if you approve. It's a "Bills" forum where the political posts already appear to be well-outpacing the Bills talk. More or less a recreation of what was happening here but more echo-ey.

 

I'd say that you can spin this out on its own or just let those interested follow the conspiracy crowd over to that place and just shut PPP down. There are a million political outlets now, not the least of which is Twitter.

 

Shutting PPP down or spinning it away from TBD as a club will make TBD a more collegial place. Both make sense to me and I already advocated for it. 

Ironically, they could have created their own closed club. 🤷🏼‍♂️ I hadn’t brought it up in public, but I had suggested it to others to see what they think. 

[snafu]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

To the edit: yes, at least 1 poster that was banned from PPP back in 43's day was never banned from & stillposts today on TSW.

 

See, to me this is important. 

If someone can act civil on the mail board or anywhere else on the site, but they turn into a hater or a troll here in PPP, then it isn’t this sub forum that’s set up wrong, it is the user. 

 

[shoshin]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

You've won.  But don't let that stop you from pursuing your white whale.

 

You've got your place to go.

 

That was always my argument: TBD would be better without PPP and the gang could go hang out anywhere. Looks like Foxx and some others started an invision board. Right now it appears to be a kumbaya fest. 

[snafu]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Not following that?  Can have different topics in clubs

 

Right, but only the “owner” of the club is a true mod.

I was elaborating on my point with @SDS that making PPP into a club won’t fix the issues that apparently exist now.

 

[SDS]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

To the edit: yes, at least 1 poster that was banned from PPP back in 43's day was never banned from & stillposts today on TSW.

It can be done but it is a hassle. 

Just now, snafu said:

 

Right, but only the “owner” of the club is a true mod.

I was elaborating on my point with @SDS that making PPP into a club won’t fix the issues that apparently exist now.

 

The state of political discourse isn’t going to be solved by me or any Bills community.  

[snafu]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

It can be done but it is a hassle. 

The state of political discourse isn’t going to be solved by me or any Bills community.  

 

I get that. I also think this boil will lance itself once the election is over.

 

 

[SDS]

Just now, snafu said:

 

I get that. I also think this boil will lance itself once the election is over.

 

 

One can be hopeful, but I don’t think so. 

[snafu]

Just now, SDS said:

One can be hopeful, but I don’t think so. 

 

In the immortal words of a former dear colleague of mine: “we live in hope and die in despair”. 

No, he was not a Bills fan. Brooklyn Dodgers.

 

 

[shrader]

5 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

You've got your place to go.

 

That was always my argument: TBD would be better without PPP and the gang could go hang out anywhere. Looks like Foxx and some others started an invision board. Right now it appears to be a kumbaya fest. 

I have to say, the stalker-vibe here is a bit creepy. 

[SectionC3]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Cool.  Good to see that 2 weeks after you helped get DR banned that you are still on your little passive aggressive woe is me roll. 

I’m not sure what you’re talking about.  Perhaps, and this is just a guess, his own behavior did him in. 

[RochesterRob]

22 minutes ago, shoshin said:

The gang who got upset already created their own forum. I won't post the link but happy to share by email if you want it or I can post it if you approve. It's a "Bills" forum where the political posts already appear to be well-outpacing the Bills talk. More or less a recreation of what was happening here but more echo-ey.

 

I'd say that you can spin this out on its own or just let those interested follow the conspiracy crowd over to that place and just shut PPP down. There are a million political outlets now, not the least of which is Twitter.

 

Shutting PPP down or spinning it away from TBD as a club will make TBD a more collegial place. Both make sense to me and I already advocated for it. 

  I don't think that you get it.  PPP outposts the other forums by a wide margin which can be important in terms of revenue.  I don't think SDS would have the least bit of concern in terms of shutting down PPP if it amounted to an unwanted appendix.  The other site only appears echo-ey to those who are.................................  It may not have been your mission to shut down PPP for hidden nefarious purposes but it certainly was for others here.

[SDS]

17 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I don't think that you get it.  PPP outposts the other forums by a wide margin which can be important in terms of revenue.  I don't think SDS would have the least bit of concern in terms of shutting down PPP if it amounted to an unwanted appendix.  The other site only appears echo-ey to those who are.................................  It may not have been your mission to shut down PPP for hidden nefarious purposes but it certainly was for others here.

This has been said erroneously before. I routinely dump posts from the stadium wall into the archive. I’m not sure I have done that here in 10 years or more if ever. There is something like 8 million posts in our database. 800,000 are here of which of the majority are from a smaller group.

[DFT]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

As I have mentioned before, as a Buffalo Bills community, PPP isn't really a main focus, but had remained over the years as other subforms were phased out.

 

I have been thinking for a few years (or sometime after the clubs were a part of the software) that this place would be better served as club than a subforum. I'm shocked it didn't occur organically to be honest. A club owner can name their own moderators and choose an open/closed club. This also moves the forum further away from Bills moderators, which is desirable. None of us really want to be involved in this.

 

I'm open to your thoughts.

SDS,

 

First, I want to thank you for your hard work to bring this forum to life.  I’m relatively new here, but in my brief time up until just recently, I’ve enjoyed it.  I have tremendous respect for your moderator team, as well.  
 

Being new and in relative good standing, I do want to say that what was just 6 months ago, a very solid place for people like me to speak freely about political beliefs, has turned quickly into a chaotic, antagonistic breeding ground for trolling.  In all fairness, I don’t have the history to know what transpired before I arrived.  But since arriving, I’ve seen firsthand, that the decent conversations had between opposing viewpoints are MASSIVELY and intentionally derailed by (my guess), the same trolls that derailed and forced a very tough decision in closing BBMB.  It’s unfortunate.  
 

I’ve tried on many, many occasions to have civil conversations with these folks, but their intentions and interests aren’t discussions, but rather attempts at causing disruption.  It’s become so bad, that it absolutely has caused good posters to succumb to their human instinct and react to them.  DR was a phenomenal contributor, who like many of us, grew tired of the nonstop antagonistic, multi-username trolling.  I say that not through a conservative lens, but an honest and ethical viewpoint having watched it all, personally.  
 

What’s worse, is the conversations that were allowed to transpire after he could no longer defend himself, both publicly on the forum and ESPECIALLY in the shout box.  It’s very unfortunate.  I don’t fault any one person, but I do suggest a non-partial moderator for this forum (and unfortunately based on my observations, that does not currently exist with all due and sincere respect).  I’ve seen some ugliness on the shoutbox from two of your mods (regarding faith and politics) that in my opinion rivals anything I’ve found offensive on PPP.  It was disappointing for me to read and I believe honestly that Mods should be held to an impartial standard where they’re not censored, but are expected to hold back the extreme sides of their viewpoints.  
 

I do believe PPP will be a shadow of what it once was and could’ve been, as many of the serious, faithful and every day contributors (myself included) have moved on to what is perceived as more impartial forums.  I don’t share that to chastise and I hope you can see my respect towards you and your team in my wording.  I share it because any effort made now after what’s transpired will most likely be moot.  But I hope that with impartial moderation, PPP can someday flourish.

 

My apologies for the lengthy response, but I appreciate the platform to do so.  I myself have personally moved on, so I would caution any stock you put in my thoughts on the trolling and how you lead your mod squad.  But as a once-major contributor at BBMB (both on the forum and behind the scenes), I hope you’ll put stock in the special moderator suggestion.  I also would again suggest refraining from some of the moderator conversations on the shout box that give your posters a glimpse at what some may feel is an intolerance towards opposing political viewpoints or the concept of faith.  Referring to a Christian, Muslim, Hindi or any faith-based individual as “delusional, crazy and stupid”, as I recall seeing is just bad form in my honest opinion.  It creates the proverbial spark that burns the forest, IMHO.  

 

I say this with tremendous gratitude for having had the chance to contribute here.  I wish everyone well and most importantly, health and wellness that extends far-beyond your usernames and into who you are personally.  Thank you SDS and all I had the pleasure to speak civilly with.  I enjoyed my time here.  I leave with no hard feelings whatsoever, and am hopeful that what I’ve shared can help bring in good change that all can share and enjoy.  Take care and God bless!

 

 

Dolphinflavoredtuna out.  🍻