SDS Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 As I have mentioned before, as a Buffalo Bills community, PPP isn't really a main focus, but had remained over the years as other subforms were phased out. I have been thinking for a few years (or sometime after the clubs were a part of the software) that this place would be better served as club than a subforum. I'm shocked it didn't occur organically to be honest. A club owner can name their own moderators and choose an open/closed club. This also moves the forum further away from Bills moderators, which is desirable. None of us really want to be involved in this. I'm open to your thoughts.
SDS Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, RiotAct said: Keep it where it is. Would it make a difference?
New Improved DC Tom Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's badly broken. 14 minutes ago, SDS said: As I have mentioned before, as a Buffalo Bills community, PPP isn't really a main focus, but had remained over the years as other subforms were phased out. I have been thinking for a few years (or sometime after the clubs were a part of the software) that this place would be better served as club than a subforum. I'm shocked it didn't occur organically to be honest. A club owner can name their own moderators and choose an open/closed club. This also moves the forum further away from Bills moderators, which is desirable. None of us really want to be involved in this. I'm open to your thoughts. You should make it a club, for several reasons. Not the least two of which are: it removes much of the responsibility of managing this kindergarten from your shoulders directly, and it creates greater separation between your TBD brand and Trump supporters. The caveat is that you'll end up with multiple exclusive political clubs - at the very least a left-wing club and a right-wing club. That could get messy - how messy for you, I don't know, as I don't know exactly how much interaction as board owner you have with clubs. I suspect the mitigation to that caveat is my first point: it's removed from your direct responsibility, and puts a decent Chinese wall between you (i.e. you personally, and TBD) and the political BS. Ultimately...your philosophy towards PPP has always been "hands off" and let it self-moderate. At this point, a club probably better suits that philosophy than a distinct board.
snafu Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, SDS said: Would it make a difference? Yes, it would make a difference. For some of us, having a diversity of views, no matter how simply or immaturely they are expressed, is actually a good thing. People who want to reside in an echo chamber can go somewhere else. The thing about the most recent PPP turmoil is that posters came into this subforum and tried to change it, rather than adapting or leaving it alone. Transferring PPP to "club" status whereby club moderators can open or close topics off to others isn't really a "dialogue". I understand that people aren't here to have their minds changed or be converted, but it is good to be reminded that others have different views. The long-time moderator here has made it pretty clear with his posts that he's got a fairly conservative take on the world -- but you don't see him banning voices that don't share his world view. That's the way it should be. Edit: is there a way that a moderator can ban a person from a particular sub-forum? Edited October 15, 2020 by snafu 1
SDS Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, snafu said: Yes, it would make a difference. For some of us, having a diversity of views, no matter how simply or immaturely they are expressed, is actually a good thing. People who want to reside in an echo chamber can go somewhere else. The thing about the most recent PPP turmoil is that posters came into this subforum and tried to change it, rather than adapting or leaving it alone. Transferring PPP to "club" status whereby club moderators can open or close topics off to others isn't really a "dialogue". I understand that people aren't here to have their minds changed or be converted, but it is good to be reminded that others have different views. The long-time moderator here has made it pretty clear with his posts that he's got a fairly conservative take on the world -- but you don't see him banning voices that don't share his world view. That's the way it should be. Edit: is there a way that a moderator can ban a person from a particular sub-forum? clubs have their own moderators. It's moving the ownership closer to the source. To me that should be a positive thing.
snafu Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, SDS said: clubs have their own moderators. It's moving the ownership closer to the source. To me that should be a positive thing. Can club moderators hand out warning points or suspensions?
SDS Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, snafu said: Can club moderators hand out warning points or suspensions? you ask a lot of questions. lol I'll check. 1
SoCal Deek Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 What would I like to see done here? I would like to see people be more positive. This site have become infested with left-wing bomb throwers who visit/post every hour or every day for the sole purpose of casting blame across the aisle, while never once offering a single positive suggestion or defense of their hate speech. That alone would be a good first step. 6
RochesterRob Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 I don't think that clubs will work based on my experience belonging to clubs where people meet one another live. Some people want control and that dilutes as the number of members increase. Also, people can be of one political label or another but not agree on every last topic. Sometimes the division can be extreme and in a small circle the temptation to leave most likely will be greater. I've said it before and will say it again that it is my belief there are way too many sock accounts here on an agenda. Admittedly, I know little on the tech side to know how readily socks can be ferreted out to the point of one account/one voice. As a business man I get real perturbed when I think that a party that should be neutral puts their finger on the scale and to me it seems like it goes on here. I've moved on from suppliers who played favorites in my field and no doubt there are others who feel similarly when it comes to chat sites. Sorry to be perhaps a little blunt but I am thinking you want opinions no holds barred.
Sherlock Holmes Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 As long as I'm a moderator I don't care...
SDS Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 28 minutes ago, snafu said: Can club moderators hand out warning points or suspensions? No. They can lock, move, merge, delete. Club owners can move members in/out depending on the club style.
snafu Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: As long as I'm a moderator I don't care... Woah, nellie!!! 1
SDS Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said: As long as I'm a moderator I don't care... sounds reasonable. lol 1
snafu Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 Just now, SDS said: No. They can lock, move, merge, delete. Club owners can move members in/out depending on the club style. I see. Then there would be as many clubs are there are PPP topics in order for moderation to really work.
SectionC3 Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: What would I like to see done here? I would like to see people be more positive. This site have become infested with left-wing bomb throwers who visit/post every hour or every day for the sole purpose of casting blame across the aisle, while never once offering a single positive suggestion or defense of their hate speech. That alone would be a good first step. Can you identify this “hate speech?”
SDS Posted October 15, 2020 Author Posted October 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, snafu said: I see. Then there would be as many clubs are there are PPP topics in order for moderation to really work. I don't think so, club mods and club owners have complete control over a forum. They just can't affect a member's standing in the community as a whole. Obviously, the key here is that an integrated politics club is very difficult. Members have to show they are committed to discussion. 6 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Can you identify this “hate speech?” Nah. I'd like to keep this on-topic. Thanks. 1 1
snafu Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, SDS said: Members have to show they are committed to discussion. Many are not, as you've become aware. It is for people to sift through that on their own, or be mature enough to stop jumping into the muck. There IS discussion. There used to be much more of it. You're the boss, but I think I'd wait until after the election is finalized. This sub-forum may self-correct. 1
SectionC3 Posted October 15, 2020 Posted October 15, 2020 25 minutes ago, SDS said: I don't think so, club mods and club owners have complete control over a forum. They just can't affect a member's standing in the community as a whole. Obviously, the key here is that an integrated politics club is very difficult. Members have to show they are committed to discussion. Nah. I'd like to keep this on-topic. Thanks. But therein lies the problem. Disagree with the dozen or so people who practice far right politics? Be characterized as a purveyor if hate speech. It’s outrageous. The core issue here is that this place probably was a right wing echo chamber that eventually devolved into QAnon culture. Dissenting voices are not tolerated. If the goal is to be a message board form of OAN and an outlet for Q culture, go for it. But it would be better if it was a place where truth and variety of opinion is preferred. 2
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