Lets take a breath here and look at this more logically...

[Alphadawg7]

Yes we lost a game.  But we lost to one of the best teams in the AFC who were also undefeated despite not having their #1 WR until yesterday all season.  

 

Why did we lose and is it a long term concern:

1. Self inflicted wounds:  PENALTIES.  We had so many points that we gave up to the Titans and points we left on the field due to mental lapses with poorly timed penalties.  We stop the Titans for a punt, we commit a penalty to give them a first down that eventually becomes a TD.  We make a big play, get a first down or TD and we get an offensive penalty to offset it.  We had 3 false starts on one drive within 5 plays...a drive Allen kept moving the ball despite that.  
   1.  So far this year, penalties have not been as big of an issue as they were last night.  The team just seemed out of sync and maybe all the COVID stuff just had them a little off their game.  Maybe some were thinking about it and worried about playing the Titans.  I dont know, but something was definitely off.  This is a very well disciplined coaching staff and team most the time, I am not that worried about this and for right now chalking that up to one bad night.  
2. Mental lapses:  DROPS.  This was a terrible night for pass catchers on our team...its amazing Josh still completed 63% of his passes given how many drops he had last night, including the early one by Roberts that turned into an INT and gave the Titans a quick TD a couple plays later.  
   1. Our pass catchers have been outstanding all year, I think this was just a game where being out of sync a bit and missing a talent like John Brown just led to an off night.  I am not concerned and expect them to continue being very good group.  
3. Injuries:  4 KEY STARTERS.  One thing we have learned already is how IMPORTANT that Matt Milano is to this defense.  Add in both starting corners, one of which is an elite player to go with a critical weapon for Josh that spreads the offense out, and all 4 players were sorely missed last night.  
   1. We will get healthy, and hopefully soon.  I am quite concerned about DB depth right now and LB depth though.  So far, the next man up has not been getting the job done.  
4. Setting the edge:  OUTSIDE RUNS.  One thing that disturbed me the most last night was our inability to set the edge on defense.  Those outside runs by mostly Tannehill and even that TD by Henry were just wide open.  
   1. Im concerned about this and our lack of consistent pressure.  This is why I have been saying for years that people undervalue Star as a space eater.  All the stat sheet checkers who don't understand his job or value whine about him constantly.  The defense that played last night will give up 40+ to an offense like the Chiefs.  They really need to find away to both get our guys back, and make some adjustments if we want to hang with the big boys consistently.  Our defense has played great in spurts this year and awful at other times and we have yet to put a whole complete game together.  

 

I see a lot of people freaking out about the middle of the DL, but all in all, last night they held Derrick Henry mostly in check.  Even one of his short TD's was one he busted outside.  

 

Bottom line:  Most of the things above are all either temporary, fixable, or easily addressable.  The one lingering concern though has been the inconsistency of the defense and the overall health of key players on the defense.  I also feel like Edmunds is not playing with confidence right now, and I am not sure if its just rust or lingering issues with his injury or if he is just a bit frazzled lately.  But as we all have seen, he isn't yet playing to he level he played last year.  

Edited October 14, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Its very easy to say this shouldn't bother them (and it shouldn't) but all the on again off again, on top of when is the next game against KC being played I'm sure did affect them.  Particularly the events of Sunday.  After two days straight of all things looking like a go, Sunday all we (and likely the team too to some extent) seemed to be hearing was the NFL will be making an announcement.

 

Easy to say not an excuse which is true, but not so easy to say that it might have effected and/or distracted them.

[First Round Bust]

Josh Norman cannot cover a number 1 receiver - nobody on the roster other than 27 can it appears 

Milano - would love to keep him and keep him healthy - but how given our cap and need to pay Josh the massive big contract ?  Also Milano is smallish and has shown some consistent injuries which further cloud the decision to re-sign him

Pass rush - no pressure whatsover from the base rush package and any bliztes were not effective as well.  Addison, Jefferson and Butler were invisible last nite other than the PF for late hite that cost more points.

Run defernse - need Star back to anchor and makes Oliver more effective as Milano does for Edmunds.

The draft - given the DE age and Murphy likley leaving the pick of DE esp in the second round with a first-round grade makes sense, but right behind is a CB and LB so that is priority for 2021 draft

Roberts was garbage last nite and so was the coaching - if the defense continues to suck does Frazier get canned (like if we dont make the playoffs after 4-0 start ?)

Edited October 14, 2020 by First Round Bust
sp

[smuvtalker]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yes we lost a game.  But we lost to one of the best teams in the AFC who were also undefeated despite not having their #1 WR until yesterday all season.  

 

Why did we lose and is it a long term concern:

1. Self inflicted wounds:  PENALTIES.  We had so many points that we gave up to the Titans and points we left on the field due to mental lapses with poorly timed penalties.  We stop the Titans for a punt, we commit a penalty to give them a first down that eventually becomes a TD.  We make a big play, get a first down or TD and we get an offensive penalty to offset it.  We had 3 false starts on one drive within 5 plays...a drive Allen kept moving the ball despite that.  
   1.  So far this year, penalties have not been as big of an issue as they were last night.  The team just seemed out of sync and maybe all the COVID stuff just had them a little off their game.  Maybe some were thinking about it and worried about playing the Titans.  I dont know, but something was definitely off.  This is a very well disciplined coaching staff and team most the time, I am not that worried about this and for right now chalking that up to one bad night.  
2. Mental lapses:  DROPS.  This was a terrible night for pass catchers on our team...its amazing Josh still completed 63% of his passes given how many drops he had last night, including the early one by Roberts that turned into an INT and gave the Titans a quick TD a couple plays later.  
   1. Our pass catchers have been outstanding all year, I think this was just a game where being out of sync a bit and missing a talent like John Brown just led to an off night.  I am not concerned and expect them to continue being very good group.  
3. Injuries:  4 KEY STARTERS.  One thing we have learned already is how IMPORTANT that Matt Milano is to this defense.  Add in both starting corners, one of which is an elite player to go with a critical weapon for Josh that spreads the offense out, and all 4 players were sorely missed last night.  
   1. We will get healthy, and hopefully soon.  I am quite concerned about DB depth right now and LB depth though.  So far, the next man up has not been getting the job done.  
4. Setting the edge:  OUTSIDE RUNS.  One thing that disturbed me the most last night was our inability to set the edge on defense.  Those outside runs by mostly Tannehill and even that TD by Henry were just wide open.  
   1. Im concerned about this and our lack of consistent pressure.  This is why I have been saying for years that people undervalue Star as a space eater.  All the stat sheet checkers who don't understand his job or value whine about him constantly.  The defense that played last night will give up 40+ to an offense like the Chiefs.  They really need to find away to both get our guys back, and make some adjustments if we want to hang with the big boys consistently.  Our defense has played great in spurts this year, but yet to put a whole complete game together.  

 

I see a lot of people freaking out about the middle of the DL, but all in all, last night they held Derrick Henry mostly in check.  Even one of his short TD's was one he busted outside.  

 

Bottom line:  Most of the things above are all either temporary, fixable, or easily addressable.  The one lingering concern though has been the inconsistency of the defense and the overall health of key players on the defense.  I also feel like Edmunds is not playing with confidence right now, and I am not sure if its just rust or lingering issues with his injury or if he is just a bit frazzled lately.  But as we all have seen, he isn't yet playing to he level he played last year.  

Spot on on so many points.  I personally underestimated how much the loss of Brown last night would impact the offense, and it did in the worst way.  While Allen and Diggs clearly are developing a great chemistry, Allen already had that with Brown.  And it became clear early on that without Brown in the lineup, he was going to lean extra heavily on Diggs.  Thank God Diggs rose to the occasion, but the Titans were able to focus mainly on Diggs as Allen's primary target, so the catches Diggs made, while they were great, they were mostly harmless. They made sure to keep him in front of them.  Even with Davis and Beasley contributing, it was too apparent Brown wasn't out there.

 

I also agree with you on Edmunds, he does NOT seem to be playing with any confidence.  I'd love to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it's his shoulder that's still holding him back, but week after week it seems to be the same song with him...

 

Last night's loss has me hurting, I can't lie.  I'm praying McDermott and Allen have an angry fire burning inside of them, and Monday night we come out swinging, and (hopefully) firing on all cylinders.  We are banged up beyond measure, but as you pointed out, yesterday's beatdown was more about us playing sloppily as I've seen us play in AGES.  As much as I hate to say it, we deserved to lose yesterday.  Here's to quickly putting it behind us, getting a little healthier, cleaning up some simple issues, and being ready to roll Monday night.  Lucky for us, Josh lives for these type games, and I just don't see him playing like he did last night two PRIMETIME games in a row.  

Edited October 14, 2020 by smuvtalker

[Greg S]

While nobody wants to see the Bills get their asses kicked, these are types of losses that are easy to get over as a fan IMHO. Its the close losses that bother me. The Super Bowl loss to the Giants will always be the most painful loss up to this point in Bills history. The losses to Washington and Dallas (1st one) I was over real fast as those were blowouts from the beginning.

[MJS]

We also need to remember that we have gotten blown out in games the past couple years and McDermott usually responds and makes the necessary adjustments to get things turned around.

 

Maybe that won't happen this year, but it might, and we have precedent for it.

 

Let's get healthy and let's see what McDermott does to turn things around. The season is far from over.

[NewEra]

23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yes we lost a game.  But we lost to one of the best teams in the AFC who were also undefeated despite not having their #1 WR until yesterday all season.  

 

Why did we lose and is it a long term concern:

1. Self inflicted wounds:  PENALTIES.  We had so many points that we gave up to the Titans and points we left on the field due to mental lapses with poorly timed penalties.  We stop the Titans for a punt, we commit a penalty to give them a first down that eventually becomes a TD.  We make a big play, get a first down or TD and we get an offensive penalty to offset it.  We had 3 false starts on one drive within 5 plays...a drive Allen kept moving the ball despite that.  
   1.  So far this year, penalties have not been as big of an issue as they were last night.  The team just seemed out of sync and maybe all the COVID stuff just had them a little off their game.  Maybe some were thinking about it and worried about playing the Titans.  I dont know, but something was definitely off.  This is a very well disciplined coaching staff and team most the time, I am not that worried about this and for right now chalking that up to one bad night.  
2. Mental lapses:  DROPS.  This was a terrible night for pass catchers on our team...its amazing Josh still completed 63% of his passes given how many drops he had last night, including the early one by Roberts that turned into an INT and gave the Titans a quick TD a couple plays later.  
   1. Our pass catchers have been outstanding all year, I think this was just a game where being out of sync a bit and missing a talent like John Brown just led to an off night.  I am not concerned and expect them to continue being very good group.  
3. Injuries:  4 KEY STARTERS.  One thing we have learned already is how IMPORTANT that Matt Milano is to this defense.  Add in both starting corners, one of which is an elite player to go with a critical weapon for Josh that spreads the offense out, and all 4 players were sorely missed last night.  
   1. We will get healthy, and hopefully soon.  I am quite concerned about DB depth right now and LB depth though.  So far, the next man up has not been getting the job done.  
4. Setting the edge:  OUTSIDE RUNS.  One thing that disturbed me the most last night was our inability to set the edge on defense.  Those outside runs by mostly Tannehill and even that TD by Henry were just wide open.  
   1. Im concerned about this and our lack of consistent pressure.  This is why I have been saying for years that people undervalue Star as a space eater.  All the stat sheet checkers who don't understand his job or value whine about him constantly.  The defense that played last night will give up 40+ to an offense like the Chiefs.  They really need to find away to both get our guys back, and make some adjustments if we want to hang with the big boys consistently.  Our defense has played great in spurts this year and awful at other times and we have yet to put a whole complete game together.  

 

I see a lot of people freaking out about the middle of the DL, but all in all, last night they held Derrick Henry mostly in check.  Even one of his short TD's was one he busted outside.  

 

Bottom line:  Most of the things above are all either temporary, fixable, or easily addressable.  The one lingering concern though has been the inconsistency of the defense and the overall health of key players on the defense.  I also feel like Edmunds is not playing with confidence right now, and I am not sure if its just rust or lingering issues with his injury or if he is just a bit frazzled lately.  But as we all have seen, he isn't yet playing to he level he played last year.  

this, this and more of this.  Thanks for saving me the time. 👍🏻👍🏻
 

perfectly stated 

 

if John brown wasn’t out, Roberts never would’ve been able to drop the pass that led to the int and 7-0 titans.  He wouldn’t have been in the game.  It was a HUGE play.  Allen loves Smoke.  Allen needs Smoke.  Hopefully that’s the last game he misses all season.

Edited October 14, 2020 by NewEra

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Its very easy to say this shouldn't bother them (and it shouldn't) but all the on again off again, on top of when is the next game against KC being played I'm sure did affect them.  Particularly the events of Sunday.  After two days straight of all things looking like a go, Sunday all we (and likely the team too to some extent) seemed to be hearing was the NFL will be making an announcement.

 

Easy to say not an excuse which is true, but not so easy to say that it might have effected and/or distracted them.

 

Yeah, I think its fair to assume it had to have had some impact on them.  Caused some frustration, even distraction.  And while Titans were in the same limbo, their side of it was a little different.  I mean they were chomping at the bit to play, probably pissed off so many people wanted to give them a forfeit, and had all that extra rest and time to prepare for the Bills game too, at least in terms of things like film study and game planning.  Not to mention they had home field advantage with fans in the stands.  

 

Its definitely not an excuse, Bills were just out played, sloppy, and flat in just about ever facet of the game yesterday.  

 

One thing I will say is this...we are a very well coached team overall and we have a very fiery and competitive leader in Josh Allen, and also guys like Diggs too.  A game like this can also be one of those humbling games that brings them back down to earth and lights that pissed off fire in them.  

 

I still think we are going to play the Chiefs tough and I am not expecting the same kind of mental lapses and self inflicted wounds that whole game either.  

[Greg S]

If they do lose to the Chiefs then I expect the Bills to absolutely destroy the Jets at MetLife the following week. I see the Bills either 6-1(hopefully) or worst case 5-2 going into that first game against the Pats.

[muppy]

***Obeying the thread title.....breathing Innnnnnn through the nostrils...Outtttttttt through the mouth*****

 

I DO feel better thanks Alpha....;-p

[smuvtalker]

5 minutes ago, Greg S said:

While nobody wants to see the Bills get their asses kicked, these are types of losses that are easy to get over as a fan IMHO. Its the close losses that bother me. The Super Bowl loss to the Giants will always be the most painful loss up to this point in Bills history. The losses to Washington and Dallas (1st one) I was over real fast as those were blowouts from the beginning.

The SB loss to the Giants by far hurts the worst, but for me, the 2nd worse is the 89 playoff loss to the Browns, where Ronnie Harmon dropped the sure TD in the EZ, then a play or two later, Kelly throws the pick to Matthews....that sh*t still bothers me to this day.

[CommonCents]

Drive me bonkers, Dede Westbrook is riding the bench in Jacksonville and teams trot out punt returners as their 4th wideout. Granted until Brown missed a game the WR look good but blahhhh. 

 

Throw them a 6th and bolster the group. Cole is also banged up. 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, Muppy said:

***Obeying the thread title.....breathing Innnnnnn through the nostrils...Outtttttttt through the mouth*****

 

I DO feel better thanks Alpha....;-p

 

Haha no problem 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, I think its fair to assume it had to have had some impact on them.  Caused some frustration, even distraction.  And while Titans were in the same limbo, their side of it was a little different.  I mean they were chomping at the bit to play, probably pissed off so many people wanted to give them a forfeit, and had all that extra rest and time to prepare for the Bills game too, at least in terms of things like film study and game planning.  Not to mention they had home field advantage with fans in the stands.  

 

Its definitely not an excuse, Bills were just out played, sloppy, and flat in just about ever facet of the game yesterday.  

 

One thing I will say is this...we are a very well coached team overall and we have a very fiery and competitive leader in Josh Allen, and also guys like Diggs too.  A game like this can also be one of those humbling games that brings them back down to earth and lights that pissed off fire in them.  

 

I still think we are going to play the Chiefs tough and I am not expecting the same kind of mental lapses and self inflicted wounds that whole game either.  

I don't actually think the pass rush is fixable with the talent they have. If they had two shut-down corners, then yes, they could gamble a little more, but whenever they blitz now someone is wide open quickly. Mario Addison has had success in recent years, but he's not enough. Hughes is their starting RDE - the premier pass rushing position - and has 0 sacks right now. 

[mannc]

Anyone know what happened to the WR we drafted out of Oregon State, Hodgkins?  Is he on the roster?  Practice squad?  I’d much rather have him out there than Roberts.

[Greg S]

4 minutes ago, smuvtalker said:

The SB loss to the Giants by far hurts the worst, but for me, the 2nd worse is the 89 playoff loss to the Browns, where Ronnie Harmon dropped the sure TD in the EZ, then a play or two later, Kelly throws the pick to Matthews....that sh*t still bothers me to this day.

 

That was another close loss. A close loss in the playoffs hurts more than anything. If the Bills would have lost 17-16 then I would have be pissed/annoyed but 42-16 I give the Titans credit and say it wasn't the Bills night.

[DD4Bills]

My overly-simplistic take:

 

- Uncharacteristic performance by the offense. Multiple drops (I count the 1INT as a drop even though it was a smidge behind the WR), undisciplined penalties, and some Josh plays that we haven't seen all year (Q3 int and several others that should/could have been). The only characteristic part of the O's performance was unfortunately the continued complete lack of a running game.

 

- Characteristic, unfortunately, performance by the defense. That unit has given up an average of over 28 points a game.

 

It's clear to me that this team goes only as far as its offense will take it. When the O has an off game, the D is nowhere near good enough to make up the difference.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't actually think the pass rush is fixable with the talent they have. If they had two shut-down corners, then yes, they could gamble a little more, but whenever they blitz now someone is wide open quickly. Mario Addison has had success in recent years, but he's not enough. Hughes is their starting RDE - the premier pass rushing position - and has 0 sacks right now. 

 

I think its a combination of things though.  For the pass rush to get home, it needs coverage to be in place.  You can't sack a guy if he has an open receiver so early he can fire it to.  So don't underestimate the impact missing guys like Tre, Wallace, Milano, and Edmunds have had during parts of the season on getting pressure on the QB.  

 

Also, the loss of Star as a space eater is something a lot of people under estimated around here too.  But I still think once Milano and Tre come back (hoping for this week) it will make things at least a little easier on our pass rushers.  

 

 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think its a combination of things though.  For the pass rush to get home, it needs coverage to be in place.  You can't sack a guy if he has an open receiver so early he can fire it to.  So don't underestimate the impact missing guys like Tre, Wallace, Milano, and Edmunds have had during parts of the season on getting pressure on the QB.  

 

Also, the loss of Star as a space eater is something a lot of people under estimated around here too.  But I still think once Milano and Tre come back (hoping for this week) it will make things at least a little easier on our pass rushers.  

 

 

I agree, but it bears mentioning that roughly 1/3 of the way through the season, they are on the way to having the worst pass defense in team history (103.6 passer rating for opponents; and tied for a record-low pace in sacks -- just 8 through 5 games). It's a problem.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, I think its fair to assume it had to have had some impact on them.  Caused some frustration, even distraction.  And while Titans were in the same limbo, their side of it was a little different.  I mean they were chomping at the bit to play, probably pissed off so many people wanted to give them a forfeit, and had all that extra rest and time to prepare for the Bills game too, at least in terms of things like film study and game planning.  Not to mention they had home field advantage with fans in the stands.  

 

Its definitely not an excuse, Bills were just out played, sloppy, and flat in just about ever facet of the game yesterday.  

 

One thing I will say is this...we are a very well coached team overall and we have a very fiery and competitive leader in Josh Allen, and also guys like Diggs too.  A game like this can also be one of those humbling games that brings them back down to earth and lights that pissed off fire in them.  

 

I still think we are going to play the Chiefs tough and I am not expecting the same kind of mental lapses and self inflicted wounds that whole game either.  

 

Big question there will be who is available to play or still injured