Tonight exposed again we need a no1 back

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I really like Singletary but it hasn’t really been taking off this year for him. I think it’s a lack of a FB and just the formations we are running out of but that’s not going to change. I have been saying Yeldon needed to be active every week since early last season. He’s a good player. I’m not sure why more people don’t agree. The guy can catch the ball out of the backfield as good as any back in the league. He also has pretty good size and is plenty fast. I think he deserves a lot more of the load. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he became our most productive back. It just sucks that this coaching staff doesn’t trust him. I’m not even sure why he was carried all year last season. They were dressing a completely ineffective, done Frank Gore over him. Inexcusable. Please give Yeldon a legit shot here and see what he can do. At this stage in their career, he’s not far off of what Bell can do. And no that’s not a joke and unfortunately it will probably never be allowed to be proven.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[DJB]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:51 PM, 78thealltimegreat said:

If defenses are at the point now where they respect Josh not to play us man...and are going to run basically a cover 2 shell and force us to nickel and dime the way down the field...we need a running game more then ever...love Motor but he’s ideally a no2 hopefully Moss or Yeldon get more touches 

 

We had our chance. Chose a skinny DE over future super stud JK Dobbins .

 

I'm still angry about it

Edited October 16, 2020 by DJB

[John from Riverside]

Blow it up.....we lost a game

[Coach Tuesday]

6 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I really like Singletary but it hasn’t really been taking off this year for him. I think it’s a lack of a FB and just the formations we are running out of but that’s not going to change. I have been saying Yeldon needed to be active every week since early last season. He’s a good player. I’m not sure why more people don’t agree. The guy can catch the ball out of the backfield as good as any back in the league. He also has pretty good size and is plenty fast. I think he deserves a lot more of the load. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he became our most productive back. It just sucks that this coaching staff doesn’t trust him. I’m not even sure why he was carried all year last season. They were dressing a completely ineffective, done Frank Gore over him. Inexcusable. Please give Yeldon a legit shot here and see what he can do. At this stage in their career, he’s not far off of what Bell can do. And no that’s not a joke and unfortunately it will probably never be allowed to be proven.

IMO Singletary is very good at reading the defense’s leverage on the fly and using it against defenders.  But he needs to get going first and that’s where he struggles - he doesn’t start the play fast in the backfield.  Not sure if it’s a lack of initial burst or a mental thing or both.  Get him the ball in space and he’s really good.  He needs to work on his initial acceleration.

[hemma]

I'd probably look at the run blocking/gross assignment misses first.

 

Just a thought.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/14/2020 at 6:37 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

And the Bills QB was averaging 9 yards per attempt and the Titans were down Adoree Jackson at CB and their best DL.    

 

Daboll played away from the Bills offensive strength when he certainly didn't need to.

 

And he seemingly failed to take into account that the Bills defense was beleaguered coming into the game and really needed a night of just rushing the passer and keeping pass plays in front of them.   You do that by putting points on the board, not trying to execute 12 play drives.

 

Just a stupid and out of touch gameplan.    Like I said.........reminiscent of the Thursday night game versus the Jets in 2017.   These mid-week games are something that McD and company have to figure out.  

 

I'm honestly unclear on exactly what you mean by this.  It seems like you feel Daboll got away from the deep passing game when he didn't need to?

 

I think that's incorrect.  Clearly the Bills have had a lot of early success with the deep passing game, but that depended on how defenses were playing us.   The Titans took a different defensive approach.   The Titans defensive game plan seemed designed to take away the deep stuff, and daring Allen to decode their coverage and take the short yardage stuff.

 

We were also missing one of our legit deep threats, John Brown.

 

Seems to me that when Allen was trying to force the deeper stuff and getting incompletions (and a few passes he's damned lucky weren't picked) we stalled.  When he accepted "OK I'll take the dink and dunk stuff" and started hitting Beas, we moved the ball - until he got a bit greedy and forced the INT on his pass to Davis. 

 

Allen also left yards on the field early on because the Titans were giving his checkdowns so much cushion.  There were a couple plays where I screamed "What are you doing?  Beasley was open!" as Allen threw into double or once at least, triple coverage.  And at least one where I yelled "Motor has so much cushion he could construct patio furniture!"

 

FWIW, Cover1 and Jim Kubiak have a pretty similar conclusion, minus the theory on patio furniture construction. 

Kubiak: "Titans coach Mike Vrabel’s defensive philosophy was designed to challenge Allen to be patient and dink-and-dunk the ball down the field. It was a successful calculation as Allen could not resist big-play temptations......(1Q summary) Allen was consistently overlooking open receivers underneath for deeper routes. A great illustration of this mentality: Cole Beasley was not targeted until the third quarter."
 

I can't see how that translates as "Daboll played away from the Bills offensive strength when he certainly didn't need to".  I'm not sure if it was Daboll's play design or Allen's reads/preferences which had him trying to take deep shots early, but I hope they both get their heads around "take what the defense gives you" because pretty sure KC, NE (x2) and the Steelers will be doing the exact same thing.

 

 

 

[SCBills]

I’m all on board with starting Yeldon, and using Singletary as the complimentary back.  
 

Yeldon just hits the hole different and gets us 3 yards where Singletary dances for no gain.  
 

Add to the fact that in our offense, his pass catching ability can be heavily utilized.  
 

DS still has a role.  He’s a good player.  But from what I’ve seen from Yeldon, he’s earned playing time.  

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm honestly unclear on exactly what you mean by this.  It seems like you feel Daboll got away from the deep passing game when he didn't need to?

 

I think that's incorrect.  Clearly the Bills have had a lot of early success with the deep passing game, but that depended on how defenses were playing us.   The Titans took a different defensive approach.   The Titans defensive game plan seemed designed to take away the deep stuff, and daring Allen to decode their coverage and take the short yardage stuff.

 

We were also missing one of our legit deep threats, John Brown.

 

Seems to me that when Allen was trying to force the deeper stuff and getting incompletions (and a few passes he's damned lucky weren't picked) we stalled.  When he accepted "OK I'll take the dink and dunk stuff" and started hitting Beas, we moved the ball - until he got a bit greedy and forced the INT on his pass to Davis. 

 

Allen also left yards on the field early on because the Titans were giving his checkdowns so much cushion.  There were a couple plays where I screamed "What are you doing?  Beasley was open!" as Allen threw into double or once at least, triple coverage.  And at least one where I yelled "Motor has so much cushion he could construct patio furniture!"

 

FWIW, Cover1 and Jim Kubiak have a pretty similar conclusion, minus the theory on patio furniture construction. 

Kubiak: "Titans coach Mike Vrabel’s defensive philosophy was designed to challenge Allen to be patient and dink-and-dunk the ball down the field. It was a successful calculation as Allen could not resist big-play temptations......(1Q summary) Allen was consistently overlooking open receivers underneath for deeper routes. A great illustration of this mentality: Cole Beasley was not targeted until the third quarter."
 

I can't see how that translates as "Daboll played away from the Bills offensive strength when he certainly didn't need to".  I'm not sure if it was Daboll's play design or Allen's reads/preferences which had him trying to take deep shots early, but I hope they both get their heads around "take what the defense gives you" because pretty sure KC, NE (x2) and the Steelers will be doing the exact same thing.

 

 

 

 

 

I think I've made my opinion very clear........they came out too focused on running the ball.   Which is their offensive weakness.   

 

On the first series they ran ineffectively twice and then on a then obvious 3rd and 4 passing down Allen was called on to throw his first pass and promptly made a slightly off throw to the 4th receiver option that resulted in a pic which set up a layup touchdown for Tennessee.

 

On the third series they ran twice and then got a penalty that effectively snuffed the drive.

 

I am one who wants to see Josh Allen be given some easy throws and/or a designed run to get him in a rhythm physically.    That wasn't done.......7-0 Titans.

 

This isn't hindsight.........I watch every game as if I were calling the plays and there are things I want to see done early against specific opponents that I think matter. 

 

Daboll didn't think he needed to get Josh going.........he felt it was important to establish the run...........I disagreed on both counts.

 

And starts of games obviously matter more against some opponents and in some situations than others.

 

They started the game facing the potential of TN getting back-to-back posessions to end and start the halves and then promptly handed away two more possessions in the first 3 series.

 

Jumping out to a lead quickly allowed TN to be patient and execute THEIR gameplan........they had ultimately won the turnover battle just 3 plays into the game and were up 7-0 just a few plays later.

 

I guess since people assume that football is now a serve and volley sport that scoring first doesn't matter,  but there is a reason that Bill Walsh started the trend of scripting offensive series.

 

Traditionally teams that score first win about 2/3 of their games.    In closer matchups that number could be higher.   Last year in the playoffs 7 of the first 8 games were won by the team that scored first(the Bills being the exception!).    

 

Ultimately it's my position that Daboll did not have a good gameplan nor did he have his finger on the pulse of this game early on.

 

If you think it was a good gameplan by BD that was for no good reason poorly executed then I strongly disagree.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 hours ago, SCBills said:

I’m all on board with starting Yeldon, and using Singletary as the complimentary back.  
 

Yeldon just hits the hole different and gets us 3 yards where Singletary dances for no gain.  
 

Add to the fact that in our offense, his pass catching ability can be heavily utilized.  
 

DS still has a role.  He’s a good player.  But from what I’ve seen from Yeldon, he’s earned playing time.  

 

he had a bad game for sure.  Wondering if he is dinged up. Several times the first guy got him down. 
 

im not sure where he got that spin move, it didn’t seem to work that well. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Ethan in Cleveland]

14 hours ago, DJB said:

 

We had our chance. Chose a skinny DE over future super stud JK Dobbins .

 

I'm still angry about it

Yup. While I wanted a pass rusher when Dobbins was on the board he should have been the pick.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Yeldon was better than Gore last year and he is better than Moss too. 

Singletary should still start and get the bulk of the work. The run game is about the line than anything else.

Also Gilliam should sit. Lee Smith is more valuable as a blocker.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 10/14/2020 at 12:29 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

Singletary isn’t the issue though. He proved himself last year. Our run blocking has taken 4 steps backwards this year. 

 
just dawned on me... downside of 10 personnel? 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think I've made my opinion very clear........they came out too focused on running the ball.   Which is their offensive weakness.   

 

On the first series they ran ineffectively twice and then on a then obvious 3rd and 4 passing down Allen was called on to throw his first pass and promptly made a slightly off throw to the 4th receiver option that resulted in a pic which set up a layup touchdown for Tennessee.

 

On the third series they ran twice and then got a penalty that effectively snuffed the drive.

 

I am one who wants to see Josh Allen be given some easy throws and/or a designed run to get him in a rhythm physically.    That wasn't done.......7-0 Titans.

 

This isn't hindsight.........I watch every game as if I were calling the plays and there are things I want to see done early against specific opponents that I think matter. 

 

Daboll didn't think he needed to get Josh going.........he felt it was important to establish the run...........I disagreed on both counts.

 

And starts of games obviously matter more against some opponents and in some situations than others.

 

They started the game facing the potential of TN getting back-to-back posessions to end and start the halves and then promptly handed away two more possessions in the first 3 series.

 

Jumping out to a lead quickly allowed TN to be patient and execute THEIR gameplan........they had ultimately won the turnover battle just 3 plays into the game and were up 7-0 just a few plays later.

 

I guess since people assume that football is now a serve and volley sport that scoring first doesn't matter,  but there is a reason that Bill Walsh started the trend of scripting offensive series.

 

Traditionally teams that score first win about 2/3 of their games.    In closer matchups that number could be higher.   Last year in the playoffs 7 of the first 8 games were won by the team that scored first(the Bills being the exception!).    

 

Ultimately it's my position that Daboll did not have a good gameplan nor did he have his finger on the pulse of this game early on.

 

If you think it was a good gameplan by BD that was for no good reason poorly executed then I strongly disagree.

I understand your take, but I think we should expect to be able to have success on the ground against one of the worst rushing defenses in football. 
 

It wasn’t poorly executed for no good reason, it was poorly executed because the players on the interior OL played like *****.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I understand your take, but I think we should expect to be able to have success on the ground against one of the worst rushing defenses in football. 
 

It wasn’t poorly executed for no good reason, it was poorly executed because the players on the interior OL played like *****.

 

I am a path of least resistance kinda' person myself.

 

So while I agree that they should be better running the ball..........they aren't.........and they weren't in the prior 4 games.........so expecting them to be was a fundamentally bad decision.  

 

Regardless of the opponent.  

 

Josh Allen literally came into that game averaging 9.0 yards per pass attempt.  

 

The Bills are averaging 3.8 yards per rush attempt.

 

You can't pass the ball every single down but the math is OVERWHELMINGLY simple..........in a game you expect to be tightly contested it never makes sense to lead with your weakness.

 

Trust me...........I can go on because their early approach to this game was ***** on many levels and practically every statistical outcome for the game backs that up.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[Coach Tuesday]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I am a path of least resistance kinda' person myself.

 

So while I agree that they should be better running the ball..........they aren't.........and they weren't in the prior 4 games.........so expecting them to be was a fundamentally bad decision.  

 

Regardless of the opponent.  

 

Josh Allen literally came into that game averaging 9.0 yards per pass attempt.  

 

The Bills are averaging 3.8 yards per rush attempt.

 

You can't pass the ball every single down but the math is OVERWHELMINGLY simple..........in a game you expect to be tightly contested it never makes sense to lead with your weakness.

 

Trust me...........I can go on because their early approach to this game was ***** on many levels and practically every statistical outcome for the game backs that up.

 

You can probably go even simpler - the Titans are not built to play from behind, and were missing healthy players in the secondary.  A ball control game plan played right into their hands.  Should’ve just come out in 11 personnel and made Tennessee chase all night.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You can probably go even simpler - the Titans are not built to play from behind, and were missing healthy players in the secondary.  A ball control game plan played right into their hands.  Should’ve just come out in 11 personnel and made Tennessee chase all night.

 

 

That was actually the original premise that I presented.

 

I don't think there was any surprise from Daboll about how the Titans defensed the Bills..........I think Daboll knew what they were likely to do but apparently had some notion that in that case he would maybe just try to out-Titans the Titans.  But the fact that Adoree Jackson and their best DL were out should have just made it even more inviting to do what they do best........throw the ball.......more specifically on early downs with play action.........even if they rarely intended to run the ball.

 

That should have been enough...........but people gotta' pick nits.   

 

Unfortunately for their arguments it just so happens that statistics support the fact that poor early starts tend to lead to losses considerably more often than not.

 

The NFL isn't actually basketball on turf where you just have to tune in for the last 3 minutes of the game.    Every series counts in big games..........hopefully now that the Bills are playing in some of those types of game that fact becomes less a point of contention and more of a point we all can agree on.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Think we already have him, a guy by the name of Moss, but hurt right now.

 

But also agree more important things to worry about than RB.

[BrainwashedBillsFan]

Anyone have information when they expect mango to return?

[FireChans]

On 10/16/2020 at 5:52 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I am a path of least resistance kinda' person myself.

 

So while I agree that they should be better running the ball..........they aren't.........and they weren't in the prior 4 games.........so expecting them to be was a fundamentally bad decision.  

 

Regardless of the opponent.  

 

Josh Allen literally came into that game averaging 9.0 yards per pass attempt.  

 

The Bills are averaging 3.8 yards per rush attempt.

 

You can't pass the ball every single down but the math is OVERWHELMINGLY simple..........in a game you expect to be tightly contested it never makes sense to lead with your weakness.

 

Trust me...........I can go on because their early approach to this game was ***** on many levels and practically every statistical outcome for the game backs that up.

 

Not a single team in the NFL makes that decision in a vacuum disregarding their opponent. The Bills rush defense has been pretty piss poor and the Titans haven't been great rushing the ball (25th in YPA) and they still came out with a heavy dose of the ground attack.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Not a single team in the NFL makes that decision in a vacuum disregarding their opponent. The Bills rush defense has been pretty piss poor and the Titans haven't been great rushing the ball (25th in YPA) and they still came out with a heavy dose of the ground attack.

 

You are wrong about that........teams don't just lead with their own weakness just because an opponent has shown a weakness in that area.      

 

This isn't like the Roman Bills who averaged 5.8 net yards per pass attempt versus 5.3 yards per rush.

 

This Bills team entered the game with an 8.4 net yards per pass attempt against just 3.8 yards per rush.

 

That is an enormous disparity.

 

Lead with your strength.

 

In many regards the 1990's Bills weren't among the better coached teams in the NFL.........but one thing they were good at was imposing their will with what they were good at.   Running counter against teams even when they were selling out to stop it.  Or running screen passes non-stop all day against the Dolphins in the 1992 AFC Championship game.

 

Daboll outsmarted himself.   

 

Hopefully this nipped in the bud any notion he might have that he is so smart that he can significantly change the offensive focus from week to week.

 

The Bills personnel isn't assembled like the Patriots have been.........they can't bounce from scatbacks to power backs or run 2 TE effectively.

 

 They are an 11 personnel team with some 5 wide versatility and they should just focus on getting better at what they can already do effectively and let Josh Allen take care of the rest.   

 

If you are willing to sacrifice drives trying to force the run just to get better at it then do it against teams the Jets and Broncos not teams you know will be tightly contested games.