All_Pro_Bills Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) What's most peculiar about Joe Biden's ascent to the Democratic nomination is how little his historical and current views and positions align with ideals and objectives of the "core" constituents of the party in 2020. Which at this point is a very left leaning agenda. Very little Biden has stated and supported during the campaign provides any evidence that he personally supports many of these positions or plans on pursuing them if elected. So either the potential Presidents positions needs to be modified or the expectations of the left need to move to center. Otherwise something just isn't right here. A cynical person might suspect the Party is running a Trojan Horse campaign with a moderate candidate to bamboozle the electorate into giving the far left power as being "honest" about their true intentions would likely lead to defeat. Note that Pelosi is pushing a 25th Amendment legislation designed to give the Congress powers that the 25th Amendment restricts to the Executive branch. Powers to remove the President if the legislature deems him/her as "unfit" to hold office. She herself has stated this is not intended to be used against Trump but in future situations where it might be necessary. Such legislation removes the need for a change to be "voluntary". So might it be necessary in the case of a President Biden? Which brings us to the topic of a potential Harris presidency. I expect by the Summer of 2021 this will be reality. Edited October 16, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills
Doc Brown Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Backintheday544 said: SOTU was really good. I don't think it's the best political platform to jump out of. In football context, the convention is Monday night football with all eyes on you. SOTU response from the majority party is like an 8 am Sunday London game. I think the election will highly favor the Dems this year. If it does, does that signal a strict refusal of Trump-ian politics? Maybe. If GA and TX are even close, I think the Republican establishment will distance itself as far from Trump as possible. Who does that leave for 2024? Romney? I think Romney has set himself up great as a post-Trump Republican. Ted Cruz? Maybe. As a personal aside... My wife used to work at a republican restaurant that was a little costly. During Obama era when there was a shut down, Cruz led most of the people away from that restaurant to a cheaper place called T Coast to hold his meetings during the shut down. If the election is close, do we see someone like Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz, etc take up the 2024 role? Jim Jordan though is probably DOA due to his Ohio State issues. It's a good question although I think there's still a 50/50 shot Trump gets reelected. My guess is f the Republicans have a really bad November then Trump will be seen as the major problem and it won't be any of the sychophants of Trump you mentioned (Jordan, Gaetz, Cruz). To lose the House, Senate, and presidency in four years should be a massive red flag that they need to switch strategy to a more moderate Republican. It will likely be Haley or somebody from outside Washington. I think there's too much ill will towards Romney for his impeachment vote of Trump and the fact he lost a presidential election already so I doubt he even runs. If it's a narrow defeat then Republicans will just blame it as bad timing with covid and a Trump like figure is more likely to win. MAGA politicians and hardline conservatives will likely run and draw the most support (Donald Trump Jr., Gaetz, Krenshaw, Jordan, Cruz, Cotton, etc.). It's a long way off though so who knows.
Backintheday544 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: It's a good question although I think there's still a 50/50 shot Trump gets reelected. My guess is f the Republicans have a really bad November then Trump will be seen as the major problem and it won't be any of the sychophants of Trump you mentioned (Jordan, Gaetz, Cruz). To lose the House, Senate, and presidency in four years should be a massive red flag that they need to switch strategy to a more moderate Republican. It will likely be Haley or somebody from outside Washington. I think there's too much ill will towards Romney for his impeachment vote of Trump and the fact he lost a presidential election already so I doubt he even runs. If it's a narrow defeat then Republicans will just blame it as bad timing with covid and a Trump like figure is more likely to win. MAGA politicians and hardline conservatives will likely run and draw the most support (Donald Trump Jr., Gaetz, Krenshaw, Jordan, Cruz, Cotton, etc.). It's a long way off though so who knows. That's one thing I'm worried about is a close election. In my opinion this Trump politics is toxic. Looking at guys like Crenshaw and Gaetz. A close election would get chalked up to being it wasn't out of policy but it was COVID. I just don't know who is mainstream enough in the Republicans 4 years from now. Maybe one of their governors? On the Dem side if I were to pick anyone it would be Corey Booker. However since he won a seat in Congress, he's become less of a person I'd support. Edited October 16, 2020 by Backintheday544
Kemp Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: I just don't know who is mainstream enough in the Republicans 4 years from now. Maybe one of their governors? I don't think the Republican Party of 4 years ago even exists, anymore. I'm not even sure it will ever return. It is now a Party ruled by Trump supporters, which means conspiracy theorists and deniers of facts. Qanon nominees have already infiltrated and they are more likely to increase in numbers, no matter who wins the Presidency. If Trump wins, they will be emboldened. If he loses, he will create a new media empire and drive Fox out of business, with people like Hannitty, Carlson, and Ingraham jumping ship, which will in turn create a truly nutjob network. Obviously just an opinion.
RochesterRob Posted October 16, 2020 Author Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kemp said: I don't think the Republican Party of 4 years ago even exists, anymore. I'm not even sure it will ever return. It is now a Party ruled by Trump supporters, which means conspiracy theorists and deniers of facts. Qanon nominees have already infiltrated and they are more likely to increase in numbers, no matter who wins the Presidency. If Trump wins, they will be emboldened. If he loses, he will create a new media empire and drive Fox out of business, with people like Hannitty, Carlson, and Ingraham jumping ship, which will in turn create a truly nutjob network. Obviously just an opinion. A rather poor opinion at that.
Backintheday544 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: A rather poor opinion at that. What's your opinion?
RochesterRob Posted October 16, 2020 Author Posted October 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: What's your opinion? 32 minutes ago, Kemp said: I don't think the Republican Party of 4 years ago even exists, anymore. I'm not even sure it will ever return. It is now a Party ruled by Trump supporters, which means conspiracy theorists and deniers of facts. Qanon nominees have already infiltrated and they are more likely to increase in numbers, no matter who wins the Presidency. If Trump wins, they will be emboldened. If he loses, he will create a new media empire and drive Fox out of business, with people like Hannitty, Carlson, and Ingraham jumping ship, which will in turn create a truly nutjob network. Obviously just an opinion. The Republican Party will still be around. I fail to see how the disintegration will occur in terms of Kemp's assessment.
Backintheday544 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: The Republican Party will still be around. I fail to see how the disintegration will occur in terms of Kemp's assessment. Where will the Republican party be 4 years from now? What values will they have? Will they be different than today?
realtruelove Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Where will the Republican party be 4 years from now? What values will they have? Will they be different than today? Values are timeless.
Backintheday544 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, realtruelove said: Values are timeless. What are these timeless values? I edited this to make this convo quicker. When I asked what are your timeless values, you'll most some things. I'll read them and be like Trump is the opposite of those so I'll respond and say that. So let's skip a couple messages. What are the timeless values of the Republican party and how has Trump upheld them? Edited October 17, 2020 by Backintheday544
realtruelove Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: What are these timeless values? I edited this to make this convo quicker. When I asked what are your timeless values, you'll most some things. I'll read them and be like Trump is the opposite of those so I'll respond and say that. So let's skip a couple messages. What are the timeless values of the Republican party and how has Trump upheld them? Sometimes you should think before you respond. 1
Backintheday544 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, realtruelove said: Sometimes you should think before you respond. Yea, I did... I'd love to hear your answers.
realtruelove Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said: Yea, I did... I'd love to hear your answers. Trustworthy, Honest, Fair, Demanding
Backintheday544 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, realtruelove said: Trustworthy, Honest, Fair, Demanding And you think those are the values of the current Republican party?
The Frankish Reich Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Backintheday544 said: Where will the Republican party be 4 years from now? What values will they have? Will they be different than today? It's amazing how quickly parties can pivot. But they've got to take an electoral thrashing to do it. Britain: Jeremy Corbin's Labour Party was a disaster. No sooner did they get crushed in an election than it pivoted back hard to the center. USA: George McGovern's Democratic Party was a disaster. Lost 49 of 50 states. 4 years later Jimmy Carter won the election. My take: the current coalitions that form the Democratic and Republican parties are inherently unstable. Democrats: the party of POC, + highly educated/higher income whites Republicans: the party of evangelical Christians, wealthy older whites, and poorly educated younger whites. There really isn't a lot of unity of interest in these coalitions other than they hate the other side. That's typically not sustainable. Edited October 17, 2020 by The Frankish Reich 1
Backintheday544 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, realtruelove said: There are no parties, only values. And your values...Trustworthy, Honest, Fair, Demanding.... Who encompasses that?
Backintheday544 Posted October 17, 2020 Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, realtruelove said: What are you worried about? Nothing. I'm asking for your opinions. I'm interested to hear what you have to say.
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