Revisting 2019 Draft - D.K. Metcalf?

[DJB]

49 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And Claypool went a few picks before Epanesa but trading up for him seems like it would’ve been the play.  He’s even more versatile than Metcalf (scored on an end-around yesterday plus 3 receiving TDs and another one wiped out by a BS OPI call).  Espanesa looks five times smaller than he did last year and can’t get off blocks - he’s Maybin without the speed right now...

 

Gabe Davis has been solid but yeah Claypool has looked outstanding.

 

If we could redo picks id have gone DK like I wanted too over Ford and I wanted JK Dobbins over Espanesa

[bobobonators]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And Claypool went a few picks before Epanesa but trading up for him seems like it would’ve been the play.  He’s even more versatile than Metcalf (scored on an end-around yesterday plus 3 receiving TDs and another one wiped out by a BS OPI call).  Espanesa looks five times smaller than he did last year and can’t get off blocks - he’s Maybin without the speed right now...

This point catches the spirit of what many people here talk about with revisionist history. We can look at any single draft and pinpoint 20-30 players where any fan of any team but one can say “why didnt we draft that guy” 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Did they give Wilson time to throw.  It takes a team to win a game.

Yes and people wanted Rosen because he was the "right Josh"

I can’t speak fur everyone, but I wanted Rosen because I felt he was more NFL ready and was a quintessential pocket passer.  I wasn’t positive that he was going to be a star.  I can’t recall many bust proof players in my lifetime.  
 

I can recall not wanting allen because I thought he was a big goofy kid.  Turned out to be 100% right in that regard.  Watching his tape, I couldn’t put a grade on his heart.  So glad I was wrong, 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Kudos to those who realized none of that mattered. lol, cone drill.

 

Kid would be lighting it up with JA right now.  No reason to believe otherwise.

He would be. What would be be doing with the Jets?

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And Claypool went a few picks before Epanesa but trading up for him seems like it would’ve been the play.  He’s even more versatile than Metcalf (scored on an end-around yesterday plus 3 receiving TDs and another one wiped out by a BS OPI call).  Espanesa looks five times smaller than he did last year and can’t get off blocks - he’s Maybin without the speed right now...

 

 

I really wouldn't have minded them doubling down on WR in round 2 at all...........WR is one of those key positions now and especially with the way defenses are playing so poorly in 2020.  In general, when you have a draft that is loaded with talent at a key position.........go with the strength of that draft.    I think they did well with Davis where they got him, though.

 

I think in hindsight the Moss pick was probably the wrong call.   Even if he were healthy.  Going back-to-back third round picks on RB's is too much capital in a position that's still easy to fill.   People hate to hear that because some backs make great plays,  breaking and avoiding tackles........and you tend to think that someone else couldn't have.........but you can get the same yardage so much easier in the pass game.  Vegas knows what I'm talking about.   The line basically doesn't move at all based on RB availability.   EVER.      

 

As for Epanesa..........I think he is just one of those guys who really struggles initially and then once he gets comfortable in his setting he will become a good player.......probably better than Shaq because of his hand use and angular frame.    He struggled early at Iowa too.   It's almost like he has too much deference for the older kids out there and once he realizes he is one of them he can take the next step.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I really wouldn't have minded them doubling down on WR in round 2 at all...........WR is one of those key positions now and especially with the way defenses are playing so poorly in 2020.  In general, when you have a draft that is loaded with talent at a key position.........go with the strength of that draft.    I think they did well with Davis where they got him, though.

 

I think in hindsight the Moss pick was probably the wrong call.   Even if he were healthy.  Going back-to-back third round picks on RB's is too much capital in a position that's still easy to fill.   People hate to hear that because some backs make great plays,  breaking and avoiding tackles........and you tend to think that someone else couldn't have.........but you can get the same yardage so much easier in the pass game.  Vegas knows what I'm talking about.   The line basically doesn't move at all based on RB availability.   EVER.      

 

As for Epanesa..........I think he is just one of those guys who really struggles initially and then once he gets comfortable in his setting he will become a good player.......probably better than Shaq because of his hand use and angular frame.    He struggled early at Iowa too.   It's almost like he has too much deference for the older kids out there and once he realizes he is one of them he can take the next step.

 

Agree on Epenesa. Think he will end up similar to Shaq's last year but might get there more quickly. 

 

On Moss not only positionally was it a questionable decision but just in roster makeup I didn't love the pick. If they were going to take a running back I really think they should have gone for a speed guy. I don't think we really need a thumper. Allen is a sneak threat from anywhere inside 2 yards. Get a guy who hits the hole and is off to the races. For Moss to be off to the races he would have to have bought a ticket for the Kentucky Derby.

[Coach Tuesday]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree on Epenesa. Think he will end up similar to Shaq's last year but might get there more quickly. 

 

On Moss not only positionally was it a questionable decision but just in roster makeup I didn't love the pick. If they were going to take a running back I really think they should have gone for a speed guy. I don't think we really need a thumper. Allen is a sneak threat from anywhere inside 2 yards. Get a guy who hits the hole and is off to the races. For Moss to be off to the races he would have to have bought a ticket for the Kentucky Derby.

I agree re speed and I wonder if Moss was drafted for the wrong offense.  And maybe the line was built for the wrong offense.  Now that they see what Allen is capable of doing with an up-tempo downfield passing game, they may have to quickly shift personnel away from the power running scheme they seem designed for.  

[DasNootz]

Hindsight:

 

keep Gilmore, draft Patrick Mahomes, maybe move for Nelson at guard instead of drafting Allen, take DK in last year’s second and have Justin Jefferson last year or CEH.  

fwiw - I didn’t like Gilmore, i didn’t want Mahomes, I wanted DK but am happy where we are. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by DasNootz

[Coach Tuesday]

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As for Epanesa..........I think he is just one of those guys who really struggles initially and then once he gets comfortable in his setting he will become a good player.......probably better than Shaq because of his hand use and angular frame.    He struggled early at Iowa too.   It's almost like he has too much deference for the older kids out there and once he realizes he is one of them he can take the next step.

I really hope you’re right.  He looks like a different guy physically than what you saw on film at Iowa, like Super Mario when the mushroom wears off and he shrinks.  I was shocked when I saw him trot out there for the first time a few weeks ago after being inactive.  His power is gone.

[Nextmanup]

On 10/9/2020 at 2:13 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

It made sense to go with Oliver when they did.

 

It made no sense to pass on Metcalf for Cody Ford.

 

Might have seen a big jump in Josh's passing LAST year had they taken DK.

 

Also Ford being used as a guard last summer helped push Wyatt Teller off the roster.........so there is that.

 

I understand people who say that is all hindsight but when you reach for needs early in the draft...........especially at positions of modest $ value like guard or even right tackle........sh*t happens.

 

At least he is better than Cyrus Koundjio I guess.

Yeah, but that's why you should never be reaching for needs in drafts.

 

Any more than you should ever be trading up.  

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I can’t speak fur everyone, but I wanted Rosen because I felt he was more NFL ready and was a quintessential pocket passer.  I wasn’t positive that he was going to be a star.  I can’t recall many bust proof players in my lifetime.  
 

I can recall not wanting allen because I thought he was a big goofy kid.  Turned out to be 100% right in that regard.  Watching his tape, I couldn’t put a grade on his heart.  So glad I was wrong, 

He would be. What would be be doing with the Jets?

 

Doesn't matter.

 

[Albany,n.y.]

40 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

Hindsight:

 

keep Gilmore, draft Patrick Mahomes, maybe move for Nelson at guard instead of drafting Allen, take DK in last year’s second and have Justin Jefferson last year or CEH.  

fwiw - I didn’t like Gilmore, i didn’t want Mahomes, I wanted DK but am happy where we are. 

Here's some problems: 1) Gilmore wanted out & he was gone the second the Bills didn't franchise him.  2) Drafting Mahomes looks obvious now, but the Bills weren't about to saddle a new GM with a QB he didn't pick 3) Nobody would start at 21, move up to 12 & then still have to trade 2 1st rounders and a 2nd to pick a guard.  Nelson went #6, the Bills deal with Denver was for the draft choices I just mentioned-just look at the complaints about taking Ford to play G in the 2nd & you want to move up above 5 for Nelson.  Sorry not feasible.  

 

I'll pass on making a statement on your WR suggestions because too many things have happened by the time it was time to use their 2020 1st rounder.  

[Albany,n.y.]

42 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Yeah, but that's why you should never be reaching for needs in drafts.

 

Any more than you should ever be trading up.  

We traded up for our franchise QB & LT.  You trade up for a player you strongly believe in.  One of the best trade ups in NFL history was for Jerry Rice.

 

I prefer trade ups better than trade downs.  You know the player you're getting in a trade up.  A trade down is buying a pig in a poke.

 

[Chicken Boo]

I don't take anyone seriously that mentions that damn 3-cone.  Like Watson only throwing 49mph or whatever the number was.  It's just stupid.  

 

Use your eyes!

 

I was all in on DK and Myles Gaskin.  Not saying that I never miss, but I was on it that draft.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Chicken Boo

[K-9]

I wonder; are the fans of the 30 other teams that didn’t select Metcalf so full of regret as well? The simple fact is that the vast majority of great players are never gonna play for your favorite team and constantly lamenting that fact just makes it that much more difficult to enjoy your own team. We can appreciate and marvel at the amazing players we didn’t take all the same. 

[starrymessenger]

No doubt in any do over of the Bills draft DK gets selected before Ford. Ford has an option on becoming a good guard. DK gives every indication of being not only an elite WR, but the kind of rare elite talent that can single handedly dominate and determine the course of action and results of a contest. DK is like TO in his prime ( except he’s not crazy). If the draft were held today DK would be taken somewhere in the top five. So lots of teams, including the Seahawks, passed on him.

I was expecting DK to go in Ford’s spot, partly because the Bill’s brain-trust had shown a tendency to pick the raw but clearly extraordinary athlete - Edmunds, Allen. In fact Allen is sort of the DK Metcalfe of quarterbacks. A guy with unparalleled athleticism whose game has proven to be capable of the refinement required to excel at playing the position.

Edited October 12, 2020 by starrymessenger

[Pete]

People were pounding the table for Metcalf at draft time.  It’s hardly hindsight 

[Hebert19]

Moss will be just fine.  Wow.  You guys are tough.  

[Uncle Joe]

1 hour ago, Hebert19 said:

Moss will be just fine.  Wow.  You guys are tough.  

He looked good at Utah. I'm not giving up on him after 4 games.
Also, I think Epenesa will be comparable to Shaq the edge setter. Shaq missed games his rookie year to the shoulder cleanup. It took a while for his game to improve.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Uncle Joe

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I really hope you’re right.  He looks like a different guy physically than what you saw on film at Iowa, like Super Mario when the mushroom wears off and he shrinks.  I was shocked when I saw him trot out there for the first time a few weeks ago after being inactive.  His power is gone.

 

 

Yeah one of the reasons I never saw him as a 1st rounder is because he seemed to be slow to adapt to the college game.   He showed up as a very rare 5 star recruit at Iowa and really couldn't distinguish himself.    Then in his last two years he was really quite dominant.   I figured whoever got him was probably only going to get 2 good years out of his first deal.      

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Moss will be just fine.  Wow.  You guys are tough.  

 

 

We really need a "strawman" emoji for posts like this.

 

He could run for 1200 yards next year..........it doesn't change the fact that individual RB's ultimately don't move the needle much in terms of team success.

 

It's basically a math problem.

 

The difference in yards per carry between a highly productive RB and a below average one is 5 ypa versus 4 ypa.

 

Josh Allen is passing for 9 ypa.   Patrick Mahomes has averaged 8.4 ypa for his career.

 

Those RB numbers are just so low compared to the option of passing the ball that really the running game is basically just a "keep you honest" aspect of a good offense and whether that's 4 or 5 yards per carry on average really just doesn't matter much.

 

Last nights game was a prime example of the modern NFL reality...........the Vikings totally dominated the clock and the game on the ground...........and the Seahawks just flung the ball at DK Metcalf a half dozen times on the last drive and relatively easily went 94 yards to beat them.