Right Wing Terrorists Arrested In Kidnaping Plot Of Governor Whitmer

[Unforgiven]

Delaware man charged in Michigan governor kidnap plot was pardoned by Carney last year

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/crime/2020/10/09/last-year-carney-pardoned-bear-man-charged-plot-kidnap-michigan-governor/5935065002/

 

Oh the sweet irony, perp pardoned by a democrat. 

Democrats create problems, then blame everyone else when it's a colossal fail.

Just another in a long line of whack job left lunacy conspiracy theories fizzling like a fart in the wind.

[Capco]

18 hours ago, Cinga said:

 

Where the F*** did you get that idea? He was a f***ing fascist which is the extreme TO THE LEFT! He promised free healthcare and a Volkswagen in  every garage for cripe sake! And what the hell do you think NAZI stands for? National Amazing Zoo Institute? 

No.... it means National Socialist German Workers' Party you IDIOT! Did you get that? SOCIALIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All that crap you list in this post your right, is fascism, but that fascism is all left wing by nature!

 

I really think sometime people need to go back to school, not to learn because so many are beyond that, but to slap their teacher!

 

Hahahahahaha what a simpleton.  Here, let me try to answer pictorially for you.  

 

 

The vast majority of scholars place Nazism and Fascism on the far-right.  

 

https://archive.org/details/germansintonazis00frit

https://archive.org/details/routledgecompani00davi

 

You probably have no idea why the word socialism was even included in the party name, so I'll tell you.  It was because socialism was wildly popular in Europe during the 1920s and the only way the far-right could compete was to veil their platform as an equal alternative to the standard definition of socialism by incorporating left wing organizational tactics and blending them with right wing views.  

 

In Mussolini's own words:  "Fascism, sitting on the right, could also have sat on the mountain of the center.... These words in any case do not have a fixed and unchanged meaning: they do have a variable subject to location, time and spirit. We don't give a damn about these empty terminologies and we despise those who are terrorized by these words"

 

By all means, please find a credible scholarly source that supports the notion that Nazis and Fascists reside on the far left of the political spectrum.  It will be difficult, but have fun trying.  

Edited October 10, 2020 by Capco

[Chef Jim]

54 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Hahahahahaha what a simpleton.  Here, let me try to answer pictorially for you.  

 

 

The vast majority of scholars place Nazism and Fascism on the far-right.  

 

https://archive.org/details/germansintonazis00frit

https://archive.org/details/routledgecompani00davi

 

You probably have no idea why the word socialism was even included in the party name, so I'll tell you.  It was because socialism was wildly popular in Europe during the 1920s and the only way the far-right could compete was to veil their platform as an equal alternative to the standard definition of socialism by incorporating left wing organizational tactics and blending them with right wing views.  

 

In Mussolini's own words:  "Fascism, sitting on the right, could also have sat on the mountain of the center.... These words in any case do not have a fixed and unchanged meaning: they do have a variable subject to location, time and spirit. We don't give a damn about these empty terminologies and we despise those who are terrorized by these words"

 

By all means, please find a credible scholarly source that supports the notion that Nazis and Fascists reside on the far left of the political spectrum.  It will be difficult, but have fun trying.  

So because Fascist and Nazis of 100 years were considered right, conservatives of today are considered Nazis and Fascist?  
 

What ideals that are near and dear to conservatives make them Nazis or Fascists?

 

Now that’s not what I’m accusing you of saying here but many do. 

[Capco]

15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So because Fascist and Nazis of 100 years were considered right, conservatives of today are considered Nazis and Fascist?  
 

What ideals that are near and dear to conservatives make them Nazis or Fascists?

 

Now that’s not what I’m accusing you of saying here but many do. 

 

Thank you for recognizing that that's not at all what I was saying.  I think it's entirely disingenuous to chalk up today's conservatives as Nazis/Fascists (or equally, today's liberals as Marxist-Leninists).  

 

However, in modern times the right has shifted further to the right, and the left has shifted further to the left within the US.  Therefore, the number of true conservatives and liberals has, imo, started to diminish.  In short, modern politics is polarized and continuing along that trend for the foreseeable future.  

 

That's why I think you see an uptick of those kinds of comments.  Jmo, though.  

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, Capco said:

 

Thank you for recognizing that that's not at all what I was saying.  I think it's entirely disingenuous to chalk up today's conservatives as Nazis/Fascists (or equally, today's liberals as Marxist-Leninists).  

 

However, in modern times the right has shifted further to the right, and the left has shifted further to the left within the US.  Therefore, the number of true conservatives and liberals has, imo, started to diminish.  In short, modern politics is polarized and continuing along that trend for the foreseeable future.  

 

That's why I think you see an uptick of those kinds of comments.  Jmo, though.  

Just out of curiosity what would you consider the most important and most common ideals of the “typical” true conservative?  
 

While I agree that the extremes are going further away from center I feel the left is going further in larger numbers.  Perfect example. We have several well known politicians (the squad for instance) that have gone pretty far left and are gaining lots of support. We had a very social Democrat (Sanders) perform well in the primaries. What far right groups have done that well?  Look what happened to the Tea Party. 

[WideNine]

13 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I’ll skip the OpEds and handwringing over the likes of Vindmann who suffered no greater indignation than getting bounced to the curb, the fact that DJT spearheaded efforts for the American people that offered greater opportunity for employment and money in their pocket, and the fact that BO famously lead an assault on independent news organization Fox News, and the like. 
 

I’ll leave you with:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/09/pelosi-pushes-25th-amendment-bill-to-evaluate-trumps-health/

 

This will be the third time (Russia, Impeachment, 25th) in four short years the tolerant and independent left showed their version of what a free electorate might look like.  Pelosi’s maskless visit time a closed hair salon was a humorous incident revealing the abject hypocrisy of the overlords of the tolerant and benevolent left, but certainly a sign of things to come when you’re boy Biden rules the land. 
 

 

 

Not a fan of Pelosi, but that does not remove my utter disdain for Trump, his stupidity, and his epic mismanagement of this nation.

 

I also am supportive of more conservative justices to balance the bevy of liberal justices, but I am leary of justices that have undermined democratic principles such as campaign finance integrity, and equal access to voting, and am not fully on board with Constitutional Literalist as they often lose site of context.

 

Such is my more narrow view of the 2nd ammendment that aligns with the late Scalia's balanced approach in his majority opinion on the matter that most people incorrectly reference as if he advocated carte blanche unfettered guns for all.

 

As with most things there is a balance between literal Constitutional translation and the complete twisting of intent as in Citizens United.

 

Of course, Jefferson said it better:

and hanging inference on inference, from heaven to earth, like Jacob’s ladder? such an intention was impossible, and such a licentiousness of construction and inference, if exercised by both governments, as may be done with equal right, would equally authorize both to claim all powers, general and particular, and break up the foundations of the Union. laws are made for men of ordinary understanding, and should therfore be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. 

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

20 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Not a fan of Pelosi, but that does not remove my utter disdain for Trump, his stupidity, and his epic mismanagement of this nation.

 

I also am supportive of more conservative justices to balance the bevy of liberal justices, but I am leary of justices that have undermined democratic principles such as campaign finance integrity, and equal access to voting, and am not fully on board with Constitutional Literalist as they often lose site of context.

 

Such is my more narrow view of the 2nd ammendment that aligns with the late Scalia's balanced approach in his majority opinion on the matter that most people incorrectly reference as if he advocated carte blanche unfettered guns for all.

 

As with most things there is a balance between literal Constitutional translation and the complete twisting of intent as in Citizens United.

 

Of course, Jefferson said it better:

and hanging inference on inference, from heaven to earth, like Jacob’s ladder? such an intention was impossible, and such a licentiousness of construction and inference, if exercised by both governments, as may be done with equal right, would equally authorize both to claim all powers, general and particular, and break up the foundations of the Union. laws are made for men of ordinary understanding, and should therfore be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. 

 

 

 

It’s obviously an emotional issue for you, that much is clear.  It strikes me as odd given your passion for the country that your feelings about Pelosi and her plans for partisan tribunals to bypass the will of the people is about the same as mine is toward salmon—I’m not a fan.  
 

 

[WideNine]

21 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

It’s obviously an emotional issue for you, that much is clear.  It strikes me as odd given your passion for the country that your feelings about Pelosi and her plans for partisan tribunals to bypass the will of the people is about the same as mine is toward salmon—I’m not a fan.  
 

 

 

Not really that odd...I vote and stand behind the individual based on their actions more than the party.

 

Pelosi, to me, is cut from the opposite end of the same cloth as McConnell. I feel they both would sacrifice democratic principle and their responsibility to actually govern this nation in the name of partisan politics. 

 

To me they both represent a large part of what I find wrong about our government.

 

 

 

[Westside]

1 minute ago, WideNine said:

 

Not really that odd...I vote and stand behind the individual based on their actions more than the party.

 

Pelosi, to me, is cut from the opposite end of the same cloth as McConnell. I feel they both would sacrifice democratic principle and their responsibility to actually govern this nation in the name of partisan politics. 

 

To me they both represent a large part of what I find wrong about our government.

 

 

 

We actually agree on something. How do you feel about term limits for all politicians? 

[Chef Jim]

31 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

It’s obviously an emotional issue for you, that much is clear.  It strikes me as odd given your passion for the country that your feelings about Pelosi and her plans for partisan tribunals to bypass the will of the people is about the same as mine is toward salmon—I’m not a fan.  
 

 

You’re not doing it right. 
 

Oh, and I’m talking about the Salmon not Pelosi. 

[WideNine]

Just now, westside2 said:

We actually agree on something. How do you feel about term limits for all politicians? 

 

Very much in favor of it. Particularly those living dead creatures in our Senate. 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

23 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

You’re not doing it right. 
 

Oh, and I’m talking about the Salmon not Pelosi. 

I want to like salmon, but I just can’t wrap my head around it. And...lobster. All that cracking apart, it’s barbaric...I do like Swedish Fish though, delicious and I hear the schools are open. 
 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

32 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Not really that odd...I vote and stand behind the individual based on their actions more than the party.

 

Pelosi, to me, is cut from the opposite end of the same cloth as McConnell. I feel they both would sacrifice democratic principle and their responsibility to actually govern this nation in the name of partisan politics. 

 

To me they both represent a large part of what I find wrong about our government.

 

 

 

We agree in principle, though to be fair, I said it was odd to me, not odd in general. My general feeling is that when someone feels as passionately about something (in this case, politics and  DJT), a shameless power grab if the sort Pelosi is about would be met with....well, passion, not “meh”.  
 

In this case, a play of this nature made by other Washington elites with R on their business card would be just as troubling to me. 
 

 

 

[Capco]

7 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Just out of curiosity what would you consider the most important and most common ideals of the “typical” true conservative?  
 

While I agree that the extremes are going further away from center I feel the left is going further in larger numbers.  Perfect example. We have several well known politicians (the squad for instance) that have gone pretty far left and are gaining lots of support. We had a very social Democrat (Sanders) perform well in the primaries. What far right groups have done that well?  Look what happened to the Tea Party. 

 

To answer your second paragraph first, examine this graphic:

 

 

That is where the two party platforms lie when compared to the platforms of the median parties from the various democracies.  In short, the Democrats are much closer the median than the Republicans are.  Any Republicans who go even further to the right of the party probably aren't successful because of how extreme they are (i.e. it's pretty hard to get any more extreme than the Republicans currently are).  On the other hand, there is considerable room to the left of the median for the Democratic party to move to, at least by comparison to the Republican party.  

 

As far the "typical" true conservative... it's been so long since I've seen one be successful in the Republican party of today, since they aren't far enough to the right.  If I had to give an example of a conservative that I highly respect and one that is representative of what I think true conservatism is, I would offer George Will or William F. Buckley.  

[Westside]

1 hour ago, Capco said:

 

To answer your second paragraph first, examine this graphic:

 

 

That is where the two party platforms lie when compared to the platforms of the median parties from the various democracies.  In short, the Democrats are much closer the median than the Republicans are.  Any Republicans who go even further to the right of the party probably aren't successful because of how extreme they are (i.e. it's pretty hard to get any more extreme than the Republicans currently are).  On the other hand, there is considerable room to the left of the median for the Democratic party to move to, at least by comparison to the Republican party.  

 

As far the "typical" true conservative... it's been so long since I've seen one be successful in the Republican party of today, since they aren't far enough to the right.  If I had to give an example of a conservative that I highly respect and one that is representative of what I think true conservatism is, I would offer George Will or William F. Buckley.  

Hoax. That is nonsense. I'm not even a Republican yet I can see this is garbage. 

[Buddo]

2 hours ago, westside2 said:

Hoax. That is nonsense. I'm not even a Republican yet I can see this is garbage. 

 

Personally, I think that graphical representation is fairly accurate. I live, and was brought up in the UK, and where they have the various parties slotted there, looks about right to me, which is a good indicator that the rest of the representation would be correct.

 

Currently, the Conservative Party in the UK, is actually moving further to the right in many respects. About the only thing stopping it moving quicker, is the Covid pandemic.

 

In Europe generally, the view held here of the Democrats as being left wing is a matter of some amusement. In relation to the political leanings of parties in Europe, at best they would be considered 'center left', and no doubt many would still characterize them as being 'center right'.

 

There would be no doubt in the average European mind, that the Republicans are currently a 'right wing' party, and a fair way over, as well.

[Teddy KGB]

@Tiberius you gonna change the thread title or what ?   
 

what’s the hold up ? 

[dubs]

41 minutes ago, Buddo said:

 

Personally, I think that graphical representation is fairly accurate. I live, and was brought up in the UK, and where they have the various parties slotted there, looks about right to me, which is a good indicator that the rest of the representation would be correct.

 

Currently, the Conservative Party in the UK, is actually moving further to the right in many respects. About the only thing stopping it moving quicker, is the Covid pandemic.

 

In Europe generally, the view held here of the Democrats as being left wing is a matter of some amusement. In relation to the political leanings of parties in Europe, at best they would be considered 'center left', and no doubt many would still characterize them as being 'center right'.

 

There would be no doubt in the average European mind, that the Republicans are currently a 'right wing' party, and a fair way over, as well.

that’s the problem. European political spectrums have no use in the United States. 
 

I don’t care what scholars or anyone says in reference to the question someone posed above. 
 

In the United States, we were formed as a Constitutional Republic. Limited enumerated powers given to the federal government, maximum liberty to the individual. That’s the starting point and the center for our political spectrum. Anything more toward centralization of power in the hands of the federal government is a move to the left. That includes the most extreme versions of that, socialism and ultimately fascism, and communism. There is no other pole that’s natural extreme is also total authoritarian rule. The other extreme is no federal government, then maybe no government period. 
 

here endeth the lesson 

Edited October 11, 2020 by dubs

[Chef Jim]

8 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I want to like salmon, but I just can’t wrap my head around it. And...lobster. All that cracking apart, it’s barbaric...I do like Swedish Fish though, delicious and I hear the schools are open. 
 

Barbaric things are often worth it.  Like shooting a deer in the head, ripping it’s hide off and scooping out its guts?  👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Barbaric things are often worth it.  Like shooting a deer in the head, ripping it’s hide off and scooping out its guts?  👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Also not on my bucket list.