Rob's House Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, WideNine said: It was dumb of a 17 year old kid to travel to a protest armed with an assault rifle. Like somehow the local trained authorities needed the assistance of armed noobs. I stand by that assessment and the predictable, lethal, and avoidable outcome. This is the very escalation problem folks are pointing out that Trump's irresponsible rhetoric leads to. Please cite the rhetoric that lead to a kid trying to defend businesses from rioters. Please explain how the authorities were successfully defending these establishments. Please explain how, by virtue of the open carrying of a firearm, does one waive his right to self defense and invite mob attacks. You seem to have thought this through and I'd love to hear the reasoning behind your assertions. Thanks in advance. Edit: If, as a bonus, you could define "assault rifle" for me I'd really appreciate it. Edited October 10, 2020 by Rob's House 2 1 1
Golden Goat Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 3 hours ago, WideNine said: Just Google "Trump Tweet Conspiracy" and take your pick. Sure thing. Right after I Google "vast right-wing conspiracy."
WideNine Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Rob's House said: Pot meet kettle. As I said: "Hitler wasn't a socialist even though he described himself as such, but he was "right-wing" because liberals say so." You miss the point. Hitler was not a Fascist because of using the Socialism label, he was a Fascist because he fits the definition of Fascist from his actions. Fascism and Socialism are different things. Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Trump's actions often mirror Fascism, hence the anti-fascist "Anti fa" belief system which Trump often mischaracterizes as a terrorist organization unlike his reluctance to denounce far-right paramilitary groups which pose real risks to public safety. https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-race-and-ethnicity-archive-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e Edited October 10, 2020 by WideNine 1 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, WideNine said: It was dumb of a 17 year old kid to travel to a protest armed with an assault rifle. Like somehow the local trained authorities needed the assistance of armed noobs. I stand by that assessment and the predictable, lethal, and avoidable outcome. This is the very escalation problem folks are pointing out that Trump's irresponsible rhetoric leads to. You’ll get no argument from me that it was dumb for a 17 year old to put himself in the middle of a group of scumbags intent on destroying what other people have sacrificed, sweated and toiled to build. Of course, the local trained authorities aren’t much help when ordered to stand down, and besides, they can’t be trusted I’m told. On a scale of 1-10, trying to assist hard working people in the midst of a scene of total societal breakdown is an 8. The best course of action was to avoid the areas of peaceful arson and righteous looting. A 9 out of 10 would be assaulting with an intent to cause extreme harm to the kid with the rifle in the midst of the turmoil. A 10 out of 10 would be chasing the kid with the rifle down after he’s already engaged with one peaceful assaulter and then trying to beat him to death with a skateboard. As for folks who shout “escalation” long after the buildings have been set ablaze by the angry mob with what would seem to be the approval of the tolerant and benevolent liberal ruling political class, I’d say “Whatevs”. 2
Rob's House Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, WideNine said: You miss the point. Hitler was not a Fascist because of using the Socialism label, he was a Fascist because he fits the definition of Fascist from his actions. Fascism and Socialism are different things. Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Trump's actions often mirror Fascism, hence the anti-fascist "Anti fa" belief system which Trump often mischaracterizes as a terrorist organization unlike his reluctance to denounce far-right paramilitary groups which pose real risks to public safety. https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-race-and-ethnicity-archive-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e If you can make a compelling argument for your position that Trump is a fascist I'll shave my head and sell pictures of you at the airport. 2 1
unbillievable Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, WideNine said: You miss the point. Hitler was not a Fascist because of using the Socialism label, he was a Fascist because he fits the definition of Fascist from his actions. Fascism and Socialism are different things. Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Trump's actions often mirror Fascism, hence the anti-fascist "Anti fa" belief system which Trump often mischaracterizes as a terrorist organization unlike his reluctance to denounce far-right paramilitary groups which pose real risks to public safety. https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-race-and-ethnicity-archive-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e 1)Dictatorial power: Trump has repeatedly avoided assuming any new powers... even when pressed to do so. 2)Suppression of opposition: Trump did the opposite; called out Social Media companies for censorship 3)Regimentation of society and economy: Trump has removed government regulations and reduced taxes. By your definition, Trump is not fascist. Ironically, Antifa is Fascist. 19 minutes ago, WideNine said: Trump's actions often mirror Fascism, hence the anti-fascist "Anti fa" belief system which Trump often mischaracterizes as a terrorist organization unlike his reluctance to denounce far-right paramilitary groups which pose real risks to public safety. The left has been rioting for 100+ days, but the real risk to public safety are far-right groups.... Edited October 10, 2020 by unbillievable 3
Dub Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 43 minutes ago, Rob's House said: Please cite the rhetoric that lead to a kid trying to defend businesses from rioters. Please explain how the authorities were successfully defending these establishments. Please explain how, by virtue of the open carrying of a firearm, does one waive his right to self defense and invite mob attacks. You seem to have thought this through and I'd love to hear the reasoning behind your assertions. Thanks in advance. Edit: If, as a bonus, you could define "assault rifle" for me I'd really appreciate it. Exactly what I was trying to get from him earlier !
Rob's House Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 Just now, Dub said: Exactly what I was trying to get from him earlier ! You'll never get it out of him. He only has conclusions with no explanation for how he arrived at them.
unbillievable Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Rob's House said: You'll never get it out of him. He only has conclusions with no explanation for how he arrived at them. I've had this discussion many times and every liberal always tells me to go look it up myself, because they know they are right. When I tell them I have looked it up, and brought back proof that the mainstream media is lying to them, they tell me that I can't believe what I find on the internet... ...very frustrating. Edited October 10, 2020 by unbillievable 2 1
Rob's House Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, unbillievable said: I've had this discussion many times and every liberal always tells me to go look it up myself, because they know they are right. When I tell them I have looked it up, and brought back proof that the mainstream media is lying to them, they tell me that I can't believe what I find on the internet... ...very frustrating. I work with a guy who believes in the "fine people on both sides" hoax. I pulled up the transcript on Politico and let him read it word for word. He still wasn't convinced. Never underestimate the power of denial. 2
unbillievable Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Rob's House said: I work with a guy who believes in the "fine people on both sides" hoax. I pulled up the transcript on Politico and let him read it word for word. He still wasn't convinced. Never underestimate the power of denial. I did the same, but my co-worker agreed with me after reading it. A month later he was back to repeating the hoax, even more convinced that he was right the first time. 1
Rob's House Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 1 minute ago, unbillievable said: I did the same, but my co-worker agreed with me after reading it. A month later he was back to repeating the hoax, even more convinced that he was right the first time. But you're the one who's in a cult.
WideNine Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 42 minutes ago, Rob's House said: If you can make a compelling argument for your position that Trump is a fascist I'll shave my head and sell pictures of you at the airport. Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Authoritarian: So what do authoritarians in the US believe? In surveys I found that American authoritarians, compared with non-authoritarians, are more likely to agree that our country should be governed by a strong leader who doesn’t have to bother with Congress or elections. They are more likely to support limiting the freedom of the press and agree that the media is the enemy of the people rather than a valuable independent institution. They are also more likely to think the president should have the power to limit the voice and vote of opposition parties, while believing that those who disagree with them are a threat to our country—a concerning trend as we head to the polls this year. Let me be clear: Our fellow Americans, including our authoritarian neighbors, are not the enemy. The enemies of democracy are self-interested men and women who exploit fear to secure and expand their power. Fear activates the reservoir of intolerance that resides across ideological and partisan divides. And it dupes some of us into demanding uniformity over diversity, denigrating our neighbors, and turning our back on the very motto inscribed on the Great Seal of our Republic in 1782: e pluribus unum. Democracy is fragile. As John Quincy Adams wrote in 1814, “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.” In November, we have a choice: freedom or fear. Ultranationalism: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/22/trump-nationalist-926745 Dictatorial Power: Trump's attacks on Independent Media, independent Inspector Generals, whistle blowers, and attempt to use executive order to censor Internet media. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/voter-advocacy-orgs-sue-trump-administration-executive-order-threatening-social-media https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/14/trump-absolute-power-conservative-backlash-186887 Forcible Supression of Opposition: "If there’s one word to describe the post-impeachment chapter of Donald Trump’s presidency, it’s purge. Just two days removed from his acquittal by the Republican-controlled Senate, Trump retaliated against those he has determined were disloyal to him because they complied with legal subpoenas related to the House’s impeachment investigation. On Friday, Trump recalled Gordon Sondland, his ambassador to the European Union, and removed Amry Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman from his post on the National Security Council staff. Adding insult to injury, the commander in chief also ousted Vindman’s twin brother, Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman, an Army officer who also worked on the NSC staff who was not a part of the impeachment proceedings. The Friday night massacre could be just the opening act of Trump’s revenge quest. The Washington Post, citing unnamed administration officials, reports that Trump may also remove Michael Atkinson, the inspector general of the intelligence community, who shared the whistleblower report with Congress as required by law." Strong Regimentation of Society: Military leaders push back on Trump's calls for State Governors to take measures to "dominate" their streets or he would use the US military. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-generals-event-1.5599407 That covers it, but if folks are blind at this stage it is likely wasted effort trying to get them to see the danger. The good news is hopefully I won't have to worry about him screwing things up anymore than he already has after folks vote his fascist incompetent *** out of office in November. 2 1
dubs Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Rob's House said: I work with a guy who believes in the "fine people on both sides" hoax. I pulled up the transcript on Politico and let him read it word for word. He still wasn't convinced. Never underestimate the power of denial. I literally copy and pasted the link to the video to my liberal friends and they still buy into the fine people on both sides narrative. It’s pure insanity.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 7 hours ago, unbillievable said: I've had this discussion many times and every liberal always tells me to go look it up myself, because they know they are right. When I tell them I have looked it up, and brought back proof that the mainstream media is lying to them, they tell me that I can't believe what I find on the internet... ...very frustrating. ...LOL BG...you must know my relatives.......staunch, dyed in the wool, "CNN IS gospel" Dems......EVER voting for ANY Republican is blasphemy and treason....they love to goad you into a conversation so they can use their standard line, "let me explain this for you", laced with condescending and arrogant drool....."quarantined" myself from them for 12 years and counting...SMH..........
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 7 hours ago, WideNine said: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Authoritarian: So what do authoritarians in the US believe? In surveys I found that American authoritarians, compared with non-authoritarians, are more likely to agree that our country should be governed by a strong leader who doesn’t have to bother with Congress or elections. They are more likely to support limiting the freedom of the press and agree that the media is the enemy of the people rather than a valuable independent institution. They are also more likely to think the president should have the power to limit the voice and vote of opposition parties, while believing that those who disagree with them are a threat to our country—a concerning trend as we head to the polls this year. Let me be clear: Our fellow Americans, including our authoritarian neighbors, are not the enemy. The enemies of democracy are self-interested men and women who exploit fear to secure and expand their power. Fear activates the reservoir of intolerance that resides across ideological and partisan divides. And it dupes some of us into demanding uniformity over diversity, denigrating our neighbors, and turning our back on the very motto inscribed on the Great Seal of our Republic in 1782: e pluribus unum. Democracy is fragile. As John Quincy Adams wrote in 1814, “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.” In November, we have a choice: freedom or fear. Ultranationalism: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/22/trump-nationalist-926745 Dictatorial Power: Trump's attacks on Independent Media, independent Inspector Generals, whistle blowers, and attempt to use executive order to censor Internet media. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/voter-advocacy-orgs-sue-trump-administration-executive-order-threatening-social-media https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/14/trump-absolute-power-conservative-backlash-186887 Forcible Supression of Opposition: "If there’s one word to describe the post-impeachment chapter of Donald Trump’s presidency, it’s purge. Just two days removed from his acquittal by the Republican-controlled Senate, Trump retaliated against those he has determined were disloyal to him because they complied with legal subpoenas related to the House’s impeachment investigation. On Friday, Trump recalled Gordon Sondland, his ambassador to the European Union, and removed Amry Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman from his post on the National Security Council staff. Adding insult to injury, the commander in chief also ousted Vindman’s twin brother, Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman, an Army officer who also worked on the NSC staff who was not a part of the impeachment proceedings. The Friday night massacre could be just the opening act of Trump’s revenge quest. The Washington Post, citing unnamed administration officials, reports that Trump may also remove Michael Atkinson, the inspector general of the intelligence community, who shared the whistleblower report with Congress as required by law." Strong Regimentation of Society: Military leaders push back on Trump's calls for State Governors to take measures to "dominate" their streets or he would use the US military. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-generals-event-1.5599407 That covers it, but if folks are blind at this stage it is likely wasted effort trying to get them to see the danger. The good news is hopefully I won't have to worry about him screwing things up anymore than he already has after folks vote his fascist incompetent *** out of office in November. I’ll skip the OpEds and handwringing over the likes of Vindmann who suffered no greater indignation than getting bounced to the curb, the fact that DJT spearheaded efforts for the American people that offered greater opportunity for employment and money in their pocket, and the fact that BO famously lead an assault on independent news organization Fox News, and the like. I’ll leave you with: https://nypost.com/2020/10/09/pelosi-pushes-25th-amendment-bill-to-evaluate-trumps-health/ This will be the third time (Russia, Impeachment, 25th) in four short years the tolerant and independent left showed their version of what a free electorate might look like. Pelosi’s maskless visit time a closed hair salon was a humorous incident revealing the abject hypocrisy of the overlords of the tolerant and benevolent left, but certainly a sign of things to come when you’re boy Biden rules the land. 1
Dragoon Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 11 hours ago, WideNine said: Trump's actions often mirror Fascism, hence the anti-fascist "Anti fa" belief system which Trump often mischaracterizes as a terrorist organization unlike his reluctance to denounce far-right paramilitary groups which pose real risks to public safety. https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-race-and-ethnicity-archive-bdd3b6078e9efadcfcd0be4b65f2362e K, sir, this might sting a bit because I’m going to make a mockery out of your “Anti fa” nonsense, but please don’t consider it a personal attack as that’s not my flavor. Y’all see what this dude did?😂 This dude is like ‘1st, Trump is obviously Hitler. Since Trump is clearly a fascist, there’s a group of benevolent people out there who are “anti” to Trump’s “fa.” Their being named “Antifa” is irrefutable proof that they’re good people, fighting for good things!’ ....bro, if I form a gang called “the very respectable gentleman” and we start a racketeering scheme, would you be like ‘those chaps are great, they’re “very respectable gentleman!”’ It’s so ridiculous that when liberals deflect Antifa criticism, how often they go to the “dude, they’re name is Antifa which means anti fascist, thus proving they did nothing wrong.” Do you not see how ridiculous that is? 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 ....so what does Whoa Joe have to say about governance in his home (OWNED) state?.......just curious..... Delaware suspect in Whitmer plot was pardoned last year By RANDALL CHASEUpdated: October 09, 2020 04:40 PM Created: October 09, 2020 04:15 PM DOVER, Del. (AP) - The Delaware man charged in federal court with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer has a long criminal history and was pardoned just last year by Delaware's governor for crimes dating to 1994, according to state records. Barry G. Croft Jr., 44, was taken into custody this week after being arrested by the FBI in Swedesboro, New Jersey. Croft made an initial appearance before a federal magistrate in Wilmington on Thursday. Croft was being held Friday at a state prison in Wilmington. A hearing on his continued detention and removal to Michigan is scheduled for Tuesday. Five other men, all from Michigan, were charged in the alleged scheme that involved months of planning and even rehearsals to ***** Whitmer from her vacation home. https://www.whec.com/national/delaware-suspect-in-whitmer-plot-was-pardoned-last-year/5889395/
Rob's House Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 10 hours ago, WideNine said: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Authoritarian: So what do authoritarians in the US believe? In surveys I found that American authoritarians, compared with non-authoritarians, are more likely to agree that our country should be governed by a strong leader who doesn’t have to bother with Congress or elections. They are more likely to support limiting the freedom of the press and agree that the media is the enemy of the people rather than a valuable independent institution. They are also more likely to think the president should have the power to limit the voice and vote of opposition parties, while believing that those who disagree with them are a threat to our country—a concerning trend as we head to the polls this year. Let me be clear: Our fellow Americans, including our authoritarian neighbors, are not the enemy. The enemies of democracy are self-interested men and women who exploit fear to secure and expand their power. Fear activates the reservoir of intolerance that resides across ideological and partisan divides. And it dupes some of us into demanding uniformity over diversity, denigrating our neighbors, and turning our back on the very motto inscribed on the Great Seal of our Republic in 1782: e pluribus unum. Democracy is fragile. As John Quincy Adams wrote in 1814, “Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.” In November, we have a choice: freedom or fear. Ultranationalism: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/22/trump-nationalist-926745 Dictatorial Power: Trump's attacks on Independent Media, independent Inspector Generals, whistle blowers, and attempt to use executive order to censor Internet media. https://www.eff.org/press/releases/voter-advocacy-orgs-sue-trump-administration-executive-order-threatening-social-media https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/14/trump-absolute-power-conservative-backlash-186887 Forcible Supression of Opposition: "If there’s one word to describe the post-impeachment chapter of Donald Trump’s presidency, it’s purge. Just two days removed from his acquittal by the Republican-controlled Senate, Trump retaliated against those he has determined were disloyal to him because they complied with legal subpoenas related to the House’s impeachment investigation. On Friday, Trump recalled Gordon Sondland, his ambassador to the European Union, and removed Amry Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman from his post on the National Security Council staff. Adding insult to injury, the commander in chief also ousted Vindman’s twin brother, Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman, an Army officer who also worked on the NSC staff who was not a part of the impeachment proceedings. The Friday night massacre could be just the opening act of Trump’s revenge quest. The Washington Post, citing unnamed administration officials, reports that Trump may also remove Michael Atkinson, the inspector general of the intelligence community, who shared the whistleblower report with Congress as required by law." Strong Regimentation of Society: Military leaders push back on Trump's calls for State Governors to take measures to "dominate" their streets or he would use the US military. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-generals-event-1.5599407 That covers it, but if folks are blind at this stage it is likely wasted effort trying to get them to see the danger. The good news is hopefully I won't have to worry about him screwing things up anymore than he already has after folks vote his fascist incompetent *** out of office in November. When you were typing that did you feel like you were trying really hard to rationalize the absurd, or did you still think you had a plausible case for your position?
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