2016 Election vs 2020 Election

[H2o]

This is the first thread I've ever started in PPP. It's basically posing a few questions to all of those who say the Joe/Kamala ticket is basically a shoe-in, as well as expecting a larger "Blue Wave" to take over the Senate also. I'm not here to bash anyone or anything like that. I'm an adult and can agree to disagree. I myself am a conservative person so I vote Red across the board. I have many friends who are not and it doesn't matter to me either way, even if I can tell that sometimes my opinions or stances bother them. 

 

In 2016, I didn't really see it coming. I knew Trump had support, but I didn't foresee him blasting Hillary the way he did in the Electoral College. To me, personally, it was great. I have never been able to stand Hillary Clinton. I always thought she was as corrupt as they come and, symbolically, everything wrong with the Government structure. I live in VA and leading up to the 2016 election I saw Hillary/Kaine signs or stickers all over in various places. I mean they were everywhere. All of the mainstream media outlets were putting out their poll numbers talking about her comfortable lead. Everyone in the msm, Obama, Hollywood, entertainment industry, Congressmen/women, and the like were all saying there was basically no way in hell she would lose. Even in the "exit polls" that evening they were telling you the same. Then the numbers started to roll in. Red state, after red state, after red state, after red state, oh there's a blue, after red state. In 2016 Trump crushed the hopes and dreams of liberals everywhere. The TDS was so bad that some campuses cancelled classes, some employers gave their people days off, and people were crying all over. Well, the ones they wanted you to see on the news anyway. 

 

In 2020 it's the exact opposite. Even with an absolutely biased, liberal MSM I see Trump supporters everywhere. Caravans, boat parades, rallies, people walking through the streets, stickers on cars, signs in yards, Trump supporters showing up to greet Joe Biden in areas where he is going to supposedly campaign, I see it everywhere. There are more people out now for Trump, even more so than in 2016. In 2016 it was the "silent majority" that won Trump the election. Well, either they aren't as silent anymore or his support has grown over the last 4 years despite what the MSM is trying to portray. In either instance that does not bode well for the Democratic Party. In 2016 Hillary would have enormous gatherings of people in various places showing support. I am yet to see a single Biden/Harris gathering of any kind outside of like a 15 car parade I stumbled across on Twitter with about 20 people standing on the sides of the road. And don't give me the 'Rona excuse either because that hasn't stopped people being out protesting, rioting, looting, and burning. In my travels this year I have only seen literally a handful of Biden signs (maybe 5, tops) and maybe two stickers in windows, but the MSM still claims he is comfortably ahead in the polls and he's bringing this one home for the Democrats. 

 

My questions are these:

 

Where do you actually believe that Trump has lost the votes he had in 2016, an election where he won easily?

If the MSM was lying through their teeth in 2016 about Hillary/Kaine then what actually leads you to believe they are not doing the same now with Biden/Harris?

Do you honestly, I mean honestly, believe that the "silent majority" is for Biden/Harris? 

 

Answer away my friends and fellow Bills fans. Everyone please try to keep it civil with your neighbors. 

 

 

 

[DFT]

26 minutes ago, H2o said:

This is the first thread I've ever started in PPP. It's basically posing a few questions to all of those who say the Joe/Kamala ticket is basically a shoe-in, as well as expecting a larger "Blue Wave" to take over the Senate also. I'm not here to bash anyone or anything like that. I'm an adult and can agree to disagree. I myself am a conservative person so I vote Red across the board. I have many friends who are not and it doesn't matter to me either way, even if I can tell that sometimes my opinions or stances bother them. 

 

In 2016, I didn't really see it coming. I knew Trump had support, but I didn't foresee him blasting Hillary the way he did in the Electoral College. To me, personally, it was great. I have never been able to stand Hillary Clinton. I always thought she was as corrupt as they come and, symbolically, everything wrong with the Government structure. I live in VA and leading up to the 2016 election I saw Hillary/Kaine signs or stickers all over in various places. I mean they were everywhere. All of the mainstream media outlets were putting out their poll numbers talking about her comfortable lead. Everyone in the msm, Obama, Hollywood, entertainment industry, Congressmen/women, and the like were all saying there was basically no way in hell she would lose. Even in the "exit polls" that evening they were telling you the same. Then the numbers started to roll in. Red state, after red state, after red state, after red state, oh there's a blue, after red state. In 2016 Trump crushed the hopes and dreams of liberals everywhere. The TDS was so bad that some campuses cancelled classes, some employers gave their people days off, and people were crying all over. Well, the ones they wanted you to see on the news anyway. 

 

In 2020 it's the exact opposite. Even with an absolutely biased, liberal MSM I see Trump supporters everywhere. Caravans, boat parades, rallies, people walking through the streets, stickers on cars, signs in yards, Trump supporters showing up to greet Joe Biden in areas where he is going to supposedly campaign, I see it everywhere. There are more people out now for Trump, even more so than in 2016. In 2016 it was the "silent majority" that won Trump the election. Well, either they aren't as silent anymore or his support has grown over the last 4 years despite what the MSM is trying to portray. In either instance that does not bode well for the Democratic Party. In 2016 Hillary would have enormous gatherings of people in various places showing support. I am yet to see a single Biden/Harris gathering of any kind outside of like a 15 car parade I stumbled across on Twitter with about 20 people standing on the sides of the road. And don't give me the 'Rona excuse either because that hasn't stopped people being out protesting, rioting, looting, and burning. In my travels this year I have only seen literally a handful of Biden signs (maybe 5, tops) and maybe two stickers in windows, but the MSM still claims he is comfortably ahead in the polls and he's bringing this one home for the Democrats. 

 

My questions are these:

 

Where do you actually believe that Trump has lost the votes he had in 2016, an election where he won easily?

If the MSM was lying through their teeth in 2016 about Hillary/Kaine then what actually leads you to believe they are not doing the same now with Biden/Harris?

Do you honestly, I mean honestly, believe that the "silent majority" is for Biden/Harris? 

 

Answer away my friends and fellow Bills fans. Everyone please try to keep it civil with your neighbors. 

 

 

 

Personally, I can’t see any demographic where Trump has lost his base, or the silent conservative majority.  I haven’t seen Biden/ Harris signs in any of my travels.  In any other election year, I’d call this a landslide from what I’ve seen alone.  But what’s even crazier, is there’s a “me”, watching things from the other side, and saying the exact opposite.

 

Translation:  Truth is in the eye of the beholder.  We may have all moved well-beyond the objectivity we challenge others to display.  

[Tiberius]

51 minutes ago, H2o said:

 

 

My questions are these:

 

Where do you actually believe that Trump has lost the votes he had in 2016, an election where he won easily?

 

 

 

 

Elderly voters

Women 

So many new voters 

Educated voters 

Many working class people who see Trump is not their friend 

People that don't want to lose their health care 

53 minutes ago, H2o said:

 

 

 

If the MSM was lying through their teeth in 2016 about Hillary/Kaine then what actually leads you to believe they are not doing the same now with Biden/Harris?

 

 

 

 

 

 

What in the world would make you think this? What were they lying about? 

 

Can I ask? Do you think the media is united in this country? Like it's a conspiracy or something? Buffalo takes its marching orders from the Washington Post or something? 

[H2o]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Elderly voters

Women 

So many new voters 

Educated voters 

Many working class people who see Trump is not their friend 

People that don't want to lose their health care 

New voters, I can see that and understand that they could swing either way. The "educated voters" thing? I don't understand if you are trying to say that people who vote conservative are dumb or if you are meaning they have somehow gathered specific information that sways them left? But why on the rest? Why the elderly? Why have women left Trump/Pence to vote  Biden/Harris? I am a working class individual raising two kids on my own and I am voting conservative. What makes you think others are opposed to him now that were for him in 2016? Who is going to lose their healthcare (and use something other than that Joe Biden statement from the debate because it's already been shown to be misleading/false)?  Like I said, I'm just asking questions and looking for logical explanations. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

New voters, I can see that and understand that they could swing either way. The "educated voters" thing? I don't understand if you are trying to say that people who vote conservative are dumb or if you are meaning they have somehow gathered specific information that sways them left? But why on the rest? Why the elderly? Why have women left Trump/Pence to vote  Biden/Harris? I am a working class individual raising two kids on my own and I am voting conservative. What makes you think others are opposed to him now that were for him in 2016? Who is going to lose their healthcare (and use something other than that Joe Biden statement from the debate because it's already been shown to be misleading/false)?  Like I said, I'm just asking questions and looking for logical explanations. 

I'm just telling you what I saw in the polls. Educated voters going away from Trump, elderly in a big way, women in a big way, but I take it you think the polls are lying? 

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I'm just telling you what I saw in the polls. Educated voters going away from Trump, elderly in a big way, women in a big way, but I take it you think the polls are lying? 

Yes my friend, but these are polls from that same mainstream media that lied to us all in 2016. 

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, H2o said:

Yes my friend, but these are polls from that same mainstream media that lied to us all in 2016. 

How did they lie? 

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

How did they lie? 

Did you not read the entire first post where I outlined everything going on in 2016?

 

I'll edit just to summarize: It was the same types of things they, the MSM, were claiming with their "polls" in 2016. Even up to the "exit polls" on election night. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by H2o

[Tiberius]

4 minutes ago, H2o said:

Did you not read the entire first post where I outlined everything going on in 2016?

 

I'll edit just to summarize: It was the same types of things they, the MSM, were claiming with their "polls" in 2016. Even up to the "exit polls" on election night. 

No, the polls were different, Hillary's lead was not as big and the polls were pretty accurate anyway. She did win by about two percent. 

 

Or are you saying that Trump was right and he won the popular vote, too? You understand the polls measure popular vote not Electoral College? 

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

No, the polls were different, Hillary's lead was not as big and the polls were pretty accurate anyway. She did win by about two percent. 

 

Or are you saying that Trump was right and he won the popular vote, too? You understand the polls measure popular vote not Electoral College? 

https://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-biggest-lead-donald-trump-2016-8

 

Yes, I understand a poll. They also try to use it as a basis to project and portray an overall lie. That is what I am telling you. I put absolutely no stock in the MSM, nor do I watch any of the channels themselves. It's all propaganda straight out of a George Orwell book written in 1948. Al Gore also won the "popular vote" if my memory does not fail me and the President who beat him in the Electoral College also went on to win a 2nd term. His approval rating has also been steadily climbing since early June back near the 49% it was at previously this year(same as Obama at his midterm landslide re-election in 2012) and that is with a completely biased, liberal MSM standing against him at every turn where Obama had a completely biased, liberal media standing at his back.   

[WEATHER DOT COM]

Not saying you are one of them, but many people who are anti main stream media are the same people that get excited about Fox being the most watched news channel.

 

Media is most biased toward profit, not party.

Edited October 8, 2020 by wAcKy ZeBrA

[H2o]

9 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

Not saying you are one of them, but many people who are anti main stream media are the same people that get excited about Fox being the most watched news channel.

 

Media is most biased toward profit, not party.

Yeah, definitely not one of those my friend. I don't watch FOX, CNN, MSNBC, ABCN, CBSN, any of them. I couldn't even tell you the last time I spent a moment glancing at any of them outside of just to see what the Dow was doing on a particular day real quick. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

3 minutes ago, H2o said:

Yeah, definitely not one of those my friend. I don't watch FOX, CNN, MSNBC, ABCN, CBSN, any of them. I couldn't even tell you the last time I spent a moment glancing at any of them outside of just to see what the Dow was doing on a particular day real quick. 

 

hmmm

 

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Well, either they aren't as silent anymore or his support has grown over the last 4 years despite what the MSM is trying to portray....  but the MSM still claims he is comfortably ahead in the polls and he's bringing this one home for the Democrats. 

 

You seem to know a lot about what is shown on MSM, though.

[H2o]

Just now, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

hmmm

 

 

You seem to know a lot about what is shown on MSM, though.

Information is always out there without having to watch the actual channels my friend. We live in the information age you know, in all of it's glorious and wonderful forms. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

Information is always out there without having to watch the actual channels my friend. We live in the information age you know, in all of it's glorious and wonderful forms. 

 

Do you trust non mainstream sources to tell you what the MSM is saying?

 

How do you know they are trustworthy?

[SoCal Deek]

Oh yes. Get your ‘information’ from the internet! That’s generally accurate. 😂😉😉

[H2o]

14 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Do you trust non mainstream sources to tell you what the MSM is saying?

 

How do you know they are trustworthy?

You can watch general clips anywhere from what they are saying in the MSM without having to watch entire shows on their channels and you can search local news outlets in any area to find stories, which tend to be more accurate and less skewed than the mainstream variety. Like you said, MSM is for profit, but we'll have to disagree on the thought about them being biased towards particular individuals or parties. It's what made me stop watching all of them in the first place. 

13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Oh yes. Get your ‘information’ from the internet! That’s generally accurate. 😂😉😉

You actually can find reliable info on the internet outside of what the MSM is trying to feed you. Sorry is that goes against your inhibitions. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

55 minutes ago, H2o said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-biggest-lead-donald-trump-2016-8

 

Yes, I understand a poll. They also try to use it as a basis to project and portray an overall lie. That is what I am telling you. I put absolutely no stock in the MSM, nor do I watch any of the channels themselves. It's all propaganda straight out of a George Orwell book written in 1948. Al Gore also won the "popular vote" if my memory does not fail me and the President who beat him in the Electoral College also went on to win a 2nd term. His approval rating has also been steadily climbing since early June back near the 49% it was at previously this year(same as Obama at his midterm landslide re-election in 2012) and that is with a completely biased, liberal MSM standing against him at every turn where Obama had a completely biased, liberal media standing at his back.   

You obviously know nothing about Orwell or 1984. Did you read the book? 

 

Trump's lies, constantly changing rational, re-writing of history and use of state power to glorify the individual are much more in line with Orwell's warnings 

[Backintheday544]

Your questions:

 

1. Where do you actually believe that Trump has lost the votes he had in 2016, an election where he won easily?

2. If the MSM was lying through their teeth in 2016 about Hillary/Kaine then what actually leads you to believe they are not doing the same now with Biden/Harris?

3. Do you honestly, I mean honestly, believe that the "silent majority" is for Biden/Harris? 

 

1. He did not win easily. MI, WI and PA were all very close races. That's 46 electoral votes.

 

WI was 20,000 votes with over 106,000 going to a 3rd party.

MI was 11,000 votes with over 172,000 going to a 3rd party

Pa was 44,000 votes with over 146,000 going to a 3rd party.

 

So, it was far from an election that he won easily.

 

This time there is no strong 3rd party candidate that is getting strong support from the left like Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. If anything the libertarian Jo Jorgenson (?) is more likely to take right votes.

 

There's a reason Republican lawyers were trying to help Kanye West get on ballots in places like WI. 

 

2. They were not lying through their teeth. They reported polls and the polls had leads for Trump. Polls fluctuated a ton during that election. Every couple days there was a new bombshell that changed polls. Close to the election we had the Comey bombshell so polls from September wouldn't have adjusted for that.

 

Here's polling averages for 2016:

 

 

Polls are nowhere this crazy in 2020. Polls have basically stayed the same since Biden was announced:

 

 

Another main issue with the polls is undecides broke nearly 3 to 1 for Trump in 2016. The undecides in 2016 were much larger than now. In 2020 undecides are about 4 percent.

 

In addition, the 2018 polls all showed a blue tsunami and it happened.

 

If you look at average poll results by state, the final polls were all pretty close to what happened except for in IA and WI where there were large changes.

 

You can see polling average vs final result here: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016StateFinalResults.html

 

Other issue too Biden has polling polling over 50 percent, something Hilary never did.

 

3. By definition the majority is the group of more people. Hilary won the popular vote by 3,000,000+ people so the Democrats may or may not be silent, but they are the majority.

 

You can see here, 538 projects even if Biden wins the popular vote, it still doesn't give him close to a 100 percent chance of winning:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1301190941110341632

[H2o]

57 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

You obviously know nothing about Orwell or 1984. Did you read the book? 

 

Trump's lies, constantly changing rational, re-writing of history and use of state power to glorify the individual are much more in line with Orwell's warnings 

Yep, read the book. And if that is your stance on Trump that is fine. I have no qualms with that. My original questions however were:

 

Where do you actually believe that Trump has lost the votes he had in 2016, an election where he won easily?

If the MSM was lying through their teeth in 2016 about Hillary/Kaine then what actually leads you to believe they are not doing the same now with Biden/Harris?

Do you honestly, I mean honestly, believe that the "silent majority" is for Biden/Harris? 

 

Then I asked what the basis was for your answer and you claimed "polls". Here we are.