iinii Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 So when offensive skill guys got to camp, they hit the ground running and were progressively ahead of the defensive guys. And that edge may still be holding up now. It also plays into what another exec raised to me—offensive rookies are contributing more right now than defensive rookies are. Which, if those guys were taking part in those spring camps right after they were drafted, makes sense. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2020/10/08/tennessee-titans-nfl-league-office-covid-19-protocols seems a lot of coaches are on to this. The above quote is one of many on why scoring is up.
Doc Brown Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 19 hours ago, Nihilarian said: To be honest the Bills are still not running the right offense to compliment the defense. This current Buffalo Bills fast, high scoring passing offense is exactly what hurts the defense as they now need to spend more time on the field. The Bills would be better off with that same high powered offense but also with a ground and pound run game to eat the clock when needed. Add that Titans run game to the Bills offense and it would truly be perfect. When they face a team like the Ravens who had Josh Allen under constant pressure all game last season by blitzing 50-65%. The Bills could start by pounding the ball and wearing them out and then open up that high scoring passing attack. JMO We're 7th in the league in time of possession. Constantly moving the chains even if you do it quickly will give the defense more rest. It's the back to back three and outs by an offense that are killers and the Bills have for the most part prevented that this year. The motto of this offense so far has been pass first until you can prove you can cover us. It should remain that way and we should go for the kill at the end of games. The long touchdown pass in that Miami game on a 3rd and one to Brown up four in the 4th would have been a HB dive to Gore last year. It iced the game. 1
GunnerBill Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Nihilarian said: You are thinking last years defense in which the Bills were 4th in passing yards allowed, 2nd in TDs allowed. The 2020 Bills defense so far is no where near as good as last season. The 2020 Buffalo Bills are currently 17th in points allowed, 20th in yards allowed and an unbelievable 27th in passing yards allowed. 19th in yards allowed per pass attempt. Buffalo has been very lucky this season as Josh Allen is tearing it up! A lot on his own too. Think that Rams comeback on 3rd and 22. Besides, the Bills will need that power run game come winter in the wind, blowing snow...home playoff games would be great. Remember that 2017 Dec 10th game game against the Colts where neither team had 100 yards passing for the game? It was shady McCoy with 32 rushes for 156 yards and 1 TD that won that OT game. Just saying, that the Bills need to work that power run game more often this season. After all Singletary is averaging 4.3 yards per rush attempt and that could be higher with more touches. Man you are obsessed with us running the ball. And yes I do remember the snow game. It was barely watchable football.
Paulus Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 OP, please consider what you type before you type it.
Thurman#1 Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Marty-ball used to be not-so-secret code for conservative football.........especially in the playoffs where Marty coached his usually much more talented teams into surprisingly close games and put them in unnecessarily pressure packed situations where they were then more worried about losing than focused on winning. It eventually took on a life of it's own with the Chargers where his teams just panicked in the playoffs. I am not sure that McD will continue to fall into that trap............I think the lessons learned and analytics gathered from decades of guys like Marty and Cowher and even Andy Reid having teams underachieve in the playoffs should and will serve as motivation for McD to not coach his team into unfavorable circutmstances. I hope anyway. Marty's teams were NOT usually the most talented teams. Player by players they were generally considerably less talented, but Marty got so much out of them that he could coach rosters that had no business being there into the playoffs. He had a lot of mediocre QBs through the years to work with and that didn't encourage him to open up the offense. The time he did have good personnel was that young Chargers team, and they lost to the Pats in the playoffs. Remember that awful play, the interception in the 4th quarter by SanDiego and the defender then fumbled during the runback and the Pats then continued the drive and scored a TD? Jeez. That was a very good Pats team, though they were outscored by the Colts in the Conference championship that year. What you saw again and again with Marty is that he'd inherit a team that wasn't good, with few wins, immediately start winning more, and when he'd leave the next year the team would immediately regress. Marty is undervalued. And yeah, Cowher underachieved in the playoffs. Remind me how he did when they were able to draft Roethlisberger? A little better than when he was forced to use that endless stream of guys like Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Charlie Batch, Jim Miller, Bubby Brister, Kent Graham, Mike Tomczak and Tommy Maddox. The problem for those guys wasn't so much conservative play as it was bad quarterbacking and in Schotty's case, lesser talent on the roster.
Nihilarian Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Doc Brown said: We're 7th in the league in time of possession. Constantly moving the chains even if you do it quickly will give the defense more rest. It's the back to back three and outs by an offense that are killers and the Bills have for the most part prevented that this year. The motto of this offense so far has been pass first until you can prove you can cover us. It should remain that way and we should go for the kill at the end of games. The long touchdown pass in that Miami game on a 3rd and one to Brown up four in the 4th would have been a HB dive to Gore last year. It iced the game. Okay Doc, Let's look at that #7 in the league in ToP. NY Jets, 18:43-Bills 41:17 Dolphins, 31:05-Bills 28:55 Rams, 32:12-Bills 27:48 Raiders, 31:42-Bills 28:18 Looking at those numbers I'd say the Bills destroyed the Jets in ToP to give a misleading overall stat. However, I agree that quick three and out by the offense are killers. Alas, quick strike offenses can also put a ton of pressure on a defense and keep them on the field far, far too long. I do love the Bills passing offense so far this season with Allen becoming that long dreamed of franchise QB we have all wanted since Kelly. Again, just saying that there will come times when the Bills will need to work that power run game. And, if they find it they will become a complete unstoppable offense.
Thurman#1 Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: Actually I'm giddy about the first 4 weeks. I'm very happy with McD & the coaching staff. Just saying I was so frustrated prior and wonder if it could have happened sooner. Waiting for the first person to say "THE PROCESS".....😜 If you're wondering whether it could have happened sooner, the answer is pretty much "No." I did a study of serious rebuilds a few years back, looking particularly at rebuilds that had been successful. I especially looked at how long success took. And somewhere around 15% became successful in the third year. None sooner. By far the most common year for success was the fourth year. And all of the teams that were successful in the third year had picked up a QB in the first year, not the second. So, the bottom line is that no, it couldn't have happened earlier. Fans who don't quite get it want instant gratification. Rebuilds guarantee the opposite, a long painful road. This was the least painful rebuild I've ever seen, two playoffs in the first three years. Yes, the offense was poor for quite a while. That was simply the way it was going to go when you look at the resources they threw at offense those first two years. They put a bunch of resources into Allen and beyond that they simply hadn't spent much on the offense till last year. Other than Allen, they'd used two 2nd round picks and traded a 3rd for Benjamin (certainly a bad move, though we don't make the playoffs in 2017 without him), with no high-level, hell, no mid-level FAs. It wasn't going to happen that year. Last year Allen had a good OL and decent WRs in Brown and Beasley and he wasn't able to take advantage of it. So, no. When your OL puts Vlad Ducasse, Russell Bodine, John Miller and Jordan Mills on the field as starters, conservative play-calling is not your biggest problem or even close. Edited October 9, 2020 by Thurman#1
Billsfan1972 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, Paulus said: OP, please consider what you type before you type it. Yep I have been incredibly critical of the McD's defense first & foremost obsession since hired. I knew very little about him and actions speak louder then words. They completely dismantled the offense as soon as he arrived (actually very early in training camp) and made year one very little attempt to address it. Zay Jones was drafted year 1 & a bust by all accounts Year two they draft Allen & McD's offensive acumen decides Peterman is his man to start the year. Here are the drafts & while good on defense, woefully negligent & not good to start on Offense. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/draft.htm So please tell me what I have said that is factually incorrect and anything more then one person's opinion about the team he follows, watches every game and until this year has been pretty much .500 with an offense under McD that was 30th, 29th & 24th ranked? 7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: If you're wondering whether it could have happened sooner, the answer is pretty much "No." I did a study of serious rebuilds a few years back, looking particularly at rebuilds that had been successful. I especially looked at how long success took. And somewhere around 15% became successful in the third year. None sooner. By far the most common year for success was the fourth year. And all of the teams that were successful in the third year had picked up a QB in the first year, not the second. So, the bottom line is that no, it couldn't have happened earlier. Fans who don't quite get it want instant gratification. Rebuilds guarantee the opposite, a long painful road. This was the least painful rebuild I've ever seen, two playoffs in the first three years. Yes, the offense was poor for quite a while. That was simply the way it was going to go when you look at the resources they threw at offense those first two years. They put a bunch of resources into Allen and beyond that they simply hadn't spent much on the offense till last year. Other than Allen, they'd used two 2nd round picks and traded a 3rd for Benjamin (certainly a bad move, though we don't make the playoffs in 2017 without him), with no high-level, hell, no mid-level FAs. It wasn't going to happen that year. Last year Allen had a good OL and decent WRs in Brown and Beasley and he wasn't able to take advantage of it. So, no. When your OL puts Vlad Ducasse, Russell Bodine, John Miller and Jordan Mills on the field as starters, conservative play-calling is not your biggest problem or even close. And again, the team was 24-24 the three years prior to McD & 25-23 in his three years. Yes I know cap hell & other comments to be posted...... I just look at the record.
Thurman#1 Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: Here we go again about McD is smarter then all the rest and that this was al;ways the plan and he's had it mapped out since Day 1...... I admit he is growing on me and doing some very good things, but I will not get off that regardless of two WC appearences, the team's record going into this year was 25-23 under him. I will also state that he has held Allen back and this could have been accelerated too. Look at how quick Burrows & Herbert are adapting and Josh to me was hamstrung to some extent years 1 & 2. Conversely we quickly could make a decision on Rosen & probably know where Mayfield stands and shortly too with Darnold, Murray & Jones..... Without Allen & if the Bills played Offense like they did in 2019, they are at best 2-2. Yes, 23 - 25. But as has been pointed out a million times ... that's what rebuilds look like. In fact, that's a rebuild with more wins than usual. And comparing Allen to Burrows is butt-stupid. Allen was always ... always ... considered a developmental guy and many if not most of the pundits said he might need two years on the bench rather than one. Burrows and Herbert didn't go JUCO and Wyoming, and they did step on the QB camp carousel very early, which is totally unlike Josh. The comparison is ridiculous. 57 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: And again, the team was 24-24 the three years prior to McD & 25-23 in his three years. Yes I know cap hell & other comments to be posted...... I just look at the record. You just look at the record? Well, that does indeed explain why you're missing the point. Which is that rebuild suck for a few years, because they involve a lot of losing at first. Edited October 9, 2020 by Thurman#1
Billsfan1972 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Yes, 23 - 25. But as has been pointed out a million times ... that's what rebuilds look like. In fact, that's a rebuild with more wins than usual. And comparing Allen to Burrows is butt-stupid. Allen was always ... always ... considered a developmental guy and many if not most of the pundits said he might need two years on the bench rather than one. Burrows and Herbert didn't go JUCO and Wyoming, and they did step on the QB camp carousel very early, which is totally unlike Josh. The comparison is ridiculous. You just look at the record? Well, that does indeed explain why you're missing the point. Which is that rebuild suck, because they involve a lot of losing. Good you drank the Koolaid...... Good for you..... Please name me other coaches taking over .500 clubs, who then explained to the fan base that theyt were going to regress from there? Maybe Mike McCarthy went to Dallas and sold Jerry Jones on that? The Bills according to many were in utter disarray under Rex Ryan, however they were a .500 team. Sorry that some "stoopid" fans expect the new coach to come in and improve a team record. ANd yes the Bills have made the playoffs twice, but their play on the field particularly the offensive side was lousy 2017-19.
CLTbills Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 23 hours ago, GunnerBill said: McDermott coaches to his talent. He is one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL outside the obvious big name Superbowl winners - Belichick, Reid, Payton, Harbaugh, Carroll. He will want to get some of the issues ironed out on defense and I'm sure he will, but he has always won games the way his talent allows him to. I don't think there is a better coach in the NFL as far as getting the most out of the talent that he has/getting a team to overachieve for their talent level. The team that broke the drought had no business being 9-7, and the horrid team the next year that we had shed all of the bad contracts had no business being anything more than a 3-13/4-12 team, yet he somehow got them to 6 wins.
Thurman#1 Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Good you drank the Koolaid...... Good for you..... Please name me other coaches taking over .500 clubs, who then explained to the fan base that theyt were going to regress from there? Maybe Mike McCarthy went to Dallas and sold Jerry Jones on that? The Bills according to many were in utter disarray under Rex Ryan, however they were a .500 team. Sorry that some "stoopid" fans expect the new coach to come in and improve a team record. ANd yes the Bills have made the playoffs twice, but their play on the field particularly the offensive side was lousy 2017-19.r The Kool-Aid I drunk is sugar and water and nothing else. It's fans who didn't get that a rebuild was coming who got the drugged batch. And, um, let me help you out with your math ... 7-9 isn't .500. And a team that has not made the playoffs in 17 years is NOT a team that should think, "Hey, we're 7-9, it's almost 8-8, hell, let's just reload and keep going the way we have been. We'll be fine long-term with Tyrod at QB. We don't need to make a big stir, things are going fine." As many fans do, you're mixing up reloading (that's what McCarthy is doing in Dallas, which makes sense when you've got Dak Prescott) and rebuilding. And yeah, rebuilds suck.They're painful and soul-draining. The only thing more soul-draining is reloading to continue a seventeen year cycle when you aren't good enough to compete but aren't bad enough to get a pick high enough to maximize your chances of drafting a good QB (and then getting a higher pick in every round after that as well). And yeah, fans who hear the coach come in and explain that his goal is not winning this year but becoming a team that can compete consistently for championships ... and doesn't get that a rebuild is coming ... yeah, those poor fans are missing the point by a few county lines. And to repeat the point - you keep saying that the offense hasn't been good, and I repeatedly don't disagree but explain why that was so ..... they were rebuilding. Rebuilds mean pain. That's the way things go. Fans of rebuilding teams have to put their big boy pants on and look down the line and say, "We'd better be good four years from now." And we are. Edited October 9, 2020 by Thurman#1 1
CLTbills Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Yes, 23 - 25. But as has been pointed out a million times ... that's what rebuilds look like. In fact, that's a rebuild with more wins than usual. And comparing Allen to Burrows is butt-stupid. Allen was always ... always ... considered a developmental guy and many if not most of the pundits said he might need two years on the bench rather than one. Burrows and Herbert didn't go JUCO and Wyoming, and they did step on the QB camp carousel very early, which is totally unlike Josh. The comparison is ridiculous. You just look at the record? Well, that does indeed explain why you're missing the point. Which is that rebuild suck, because they involve a lot of losing. And Josh actually spent one half of one game on the bench, instead of the year or two he probably needed. And he has still turned out to be a star.
Royale with Cheese Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 10 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: He however did not practise what he preached. That Pittsburgh game (yes a win) embodied everything I loathed about the Bills offensive philosophy. Only the fact they were playing maybe the worst QB in the league saved them. Yep. Doesn’t practice what he preached but in the last two offseasons....signed like 15 new offensive players. You just can’t grasp that Allen taking another step has been the biggest reason for our improved offense. Its mind blowing.
Thurman#1 Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: Good you drank the Koolaid...... Good for you..... And just to look at the Kool-Aid thing again ... who's the guy who is drinking Kool-Aid? The guy who saw the new coach come in and make it clear that they were rebuilding, and then said, "Welp, they're rebuilding, this is going to be years of pain. This is going to suck. At least at the end of three or four years we'll hopefully have a QB who can be a franchise guy and a team that will support him, ... remembering that not all rebuilds succeed." And was correct, watching years of pain, enduring losses and sucky football, but saw them pick up a guy who at least had a chance to be a franchise QB. Was that guy, the one who knew pain was coming and weathered it, (really a large large group of realistic Bills fans who understood the mechanics of a rebuild), were they the Kool-Aid drinkers? Or was the Kool-Aid drinker the guy who thought that we didn't need a rebuild since we had the world's first 7-9 .500 team, QB'd by Tyrod Taylor and so we should just soar our way to offensive excellence immediately? The guy who was surprised that a rebuild sucked? The guy who still doesn't get what happened and still thinks things should have been much better than they were? Which guy was the Kool-Aid drinker? The guy who knew what was going to happen and watched it happen, hoping the end would be good, knowing it would take a long time? Or the guy who thought everything should be fine and dandy immediately, was puzzled by the fact that a developmental quarterback needed development, and who still won't accept what actually happened? The guy who looks at a new regime come in to a team that hasn't gone to the playoffs in 17 years and has Tyrod Taylor as their starter, sees that new regime build up a Super Bowl competitor in their fourth year and says that in his world things should have gone much better? Which is the Kool-Aid drinker? That answer will be obvious to nearly everyone who's a serious Bills fan and understands what drinking Kool-Aid is actually a metaphor for. Edited October 9, 2020 by Thurman#1
Royale with Cheese Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 16 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: So McD told the Pegula's when hired that he will build a #1 defense, draft a project QB @ #7 year 2, bring him along really slow and turn the 24-24 record we had in 2014-16 to 25-23 with one of the worst offenses in the NFL, but come 2020 a Pandemic will hit the world & that QB we selected and babied for 2 years will be an MVP candidate and the Offense will be one of the most potent in the NFL. Is that what believe happened? How is this so complicated for you? I mean seriously. Do you really think its that the Front Office wasn’t expecting any jump in play as a player develops.....especially a guy going into his 3rd year? They go out and trade a 1st round pick for Diggs to be the missing piece in this offense and when they get the results....you make it as if this plan was far fetched? How is this so hard??
Billsfan1972 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yep. Doesn’t practice what he preached but in the last two offseasons....signed like 15 new offensive players. You just can’t grasp that Allen taking another step has been the biggest reason for our improved offense. Its mind blowing. I saw this coming with Allen & read my 100's of posts saying so. Thus I guess I was right.....🤣 And much of Allen's improvement to me is better playcalling, sure hands, Diggs and a commitment to trust Allen & score points. The Pittsburgh game juxtaposes the difference between 2019 & 2020. And yes the last draft, Allen Singleterry & Knox..... Just now, Royale with Cheese said: How is this so complicated for you? I mean seriously. Do you really think its that the Front Office wasn’t expecting any jump in play as a player develops.....especially a guy going into his 3rd year? They go out and trade a 1st round pick for Diggs to be the missing piece in this offense and when they get the results....you make it as if this plan was far fetched? How is this so hard?? And you can't grasp that my opinion (yes just an opinion) is that Allen was almost there last year and hamstrung by the playcalling and lack of confidence in him.
Royale with Cheese Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Nihilarian said: You are thinking last years defense in which the Bills were 4th in passing yards allowed, 2nd in TDs allowed. The 2020 Bills defense so far is no where near as good as last season. The 2020 Buffalo Bills are currently 17th in points allowed, 20th in yards allowed and an unbelievable 27th in passing yards allowed. 19th in yards allowed per pass attempt. Buffalo has been very lucky this season as Josh Allen is tearing it up! A lot on his own too. Think that Rams comeback on 3rd and 22. Besides, the Bills will need that power run game come winter in the wind, blowing snow...home playoff games would be great. Remember that 2017 Dec 10th game game against the Colts where neither team had 100 yards passing for the game? It was shady McCoy with 32 rushes for 156 yards and 1 TD that won that OT game. Just saying, that the Bills need to work that power run game more often this season. After all Singletary is averaging 4.3 yards per rush attempt and that could be higher with more touches. You are basing us having to work on the power run game because of a bad weather game 3 years ago? The Bills have probably had 5-7 snow games in the last 15 years. You keep throwing the ball if you’re good throwing the ball.
GunnerBill Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: And you can't grasp that my opinion (yes just an opinion) is that Allen was almost there last year and hamstrung by the playcalling and lack of confidence in him. I can't grasp what this opinion is based on. It violently contradicts what I saw with my eyes. 6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: You are basing us having to work on the power run game because of a bad weather game 3 years ago? The Bills have probably had 5-7 snow games in the last 15 years. You keep throwing the ball if you’re good throwing the ball. I don't even think it is that many. In the last decade there has been Indianapolis and there was the game vs the Jets that got moved because of snow to Detroit but was played in perfect conditions in the end..... maybe I am missing one other?
Billsfan1972 Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I can't grasp what this opinion is based on. It violently contradicts what I saw with my eyes. I don't even think it is that many. In the last decade there has been Indianapolis and there was the game vs the Jets that got moved because of snow to Detroit but was played in perfect conditions in the end..... maybe I am missing one other? Obviously I saw different. You & PFF saw the same thing. I saw dropped balls, receivers seldom making a contested or difficult catch, undersized receivers, bad play calling putting Allen in difficult situations..... Read my 100+ posts thinking Allen would flourish with good coaching & playcalling. Yep through four weeks in 2020, I am RIGHT!!!!!!
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