Ok, how about something positive......

[Tiberius]

8 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

Interesting that you use the white power hand gesture in your response.  

 

***

 

And, FWIW, Jefferson was a prolific writer on the issue of black inferiority.  Justified racism in that way.  Brilliant man, but also a racist.  

Jefferson also tried to have he Haitian revolution crushed because it was a black republic. 

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

How about this? 

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/grandson-10th-president-john-tyler-dies-180975992/

 

That's an excellent story!   It's amazing that John Tyler who was born 230 years ago and took office 139 years ago still has a living grandson.

Edited October 7, 2020 by SoTier

[RochesterRob]

12 hours ago, SoTier said:

My top three in chronological order:

1. George Washington because he not only set the precedents and institutions for the Executive Branch that continue to this day such as addressing the POTUS as "Mr. President" not "Your Excellency" or some other grand title and the Presidential cabinet; established the supremacy of the federal government to enforce federal law (Whiskey Rebellion 1794); and most importantly, retiring to private life after two terms when he could have easily continued as POTUS for life.  Keep in mind that immediately after the Revolution, there was considerable sentiment, especially among the veterans of the Continental Army, for Washington to take over the government.  Washington refused that.  Then in 1796, he chose again to voluntarily step down.   He set the US on the path to successful republicanism when it had never been done before.
2. Abraham Lincoln because he not only held the country together in its greatest constitutional crisis, but also supported laws that were major contributors to US economic prosperity for the next century, including the Homestead Act, the Morrill Act, and the Pacific Railroad Act.  Although he fully expected to be defeated in the 1864 presidential election, which would mean that the South would have been allowed to leave the Union, Lincoln refused to postpone or otherwise use his office against his opponent, George B. McClellan.
3. Franklin Roosevelt because he successfully dealt with two separate major crises, the Great Depression, the worst economic collapse in US history, and WW II.   His New Deal included seminal legislation that established social security, gave American workers the right to unionize, set a national minimum wage, and limited and regulated child labor. FDR's positive achievements during the Great Depression were somewhat tarnished by his attempt to pack the Supreme Court in the late 1930s.  His leadership during WW II was more problematic.  He failed to take the threat from Japan seriously enough.  The internment of Japanese Amercans, most of whom were US born citizens, was simply stupid war hysteria fed by racism.  FDR's running for election in 1944 was probably a mistake because he was dangerously ill, which was hidden from the American public.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Not a FDR lover but I disagree with your assessment of him not taking the threat from Japan serious enough.  The move of the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor was done at his direction.  FDR was an assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI so he had some insight as to world politics and the projection of military power.  He also had regular contact with Joesph Grew who was US Ambassador to Japan so FDR most likely knew that a move westward by the US Navy to make Midway and Wake Island defendable would be taken as an act of aggression.  Japan held the view that it had rightful claim to those islands.  

 

  As to the rest of the thread.

 

  Theodore Roosevelt.

  Eisenhower.

  Lincoln. 

  Ford.  Let me explain.  He moved the nation off of years of civil disorder by pushing Nixon to the side ASAP.  No small deal given the strife we are seeing today.

  Reagan.  Collapsed the threat from the Soviet Union and released Central and Eastern Europe from its grip.  Just to show you I am not blindly partisan I do consider his deregulation of the credit card industry a very poor decision.  

 

  As to Millard Fillmore.  Came from Cayuga County, NY.  A hotbed of nationally known names such as JD Rockefeller and William Seward (Alaska Purchase by the US) also came from there.

Edited October 7, 2020 by RochesterRob

[SectionC3]

3 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Not a FDR lover but I disagree with your assessment of him not taking the threat from Japan serious enough.  The move of the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor was done at his direction.  FDR was an assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI so he had some insight as to world politics and the projection of military power.  He also had regular contact with Joesph Grew who was US Ambassador to Japan so FDR most likely knew that a move westward by the US Navy to make Midway and Wake Island defendable would be taken as an act of aggression.  Japan held the view that it had rightful claim to those islands.  

 

  As to the rest of the thread.

 

  Theodore Roosevelt.

  Eisenhower.

  Lincoln. 

  Ford.  Let me explain.  He moved the nation off of years of civil disorder by pushing Nixon to the side ASAP.  No small deal given the strife we are seeing today.

  Reagan.  Collapsed the threat from the Soviet Union and released Central and Eastern Europe from its grip.  Just to show you I am not blindly partisan I do consider his deregulation of the credit card industry a very poor decision.  

 

  As to Millard Fillmore.  Came from Cayuga County, NY.  A hotbed of nationally known names as JD Rockefeller and William Seward (Alaska Purchase by the US) also came from there.

Ford is an interesting and very intelligent choice.  Well done. 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, RochesterRob said:

 

 

  As to Millard Fillmore.  Came from Cayuga County, NY.  A hotbed of nationally known names as JD Rockefeller and William Seward (Alaska Purchase by the US) also came from there.

Yes, he and Seward led opposite wings of the Whig Party in NY after the Fugitive Slave Law divided the party. Fillmore was labeled a "Compromise" Whig and Seward a "Conscience" Whig and the Party drifted towards a breakup in the 1850's 

[shoshin]

5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

 

 

  Theodore Roosevelt.

 

 

I am a huge fan of the person Teddy Roosevelt and his awesome life, and in a time of more turmoil, he could have been a top 3 president. But not a lot happened on his watch as president compared to many others. 

 

I think he gets overly credited as president for having such an interesting life. 

[Westside]

24 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That's an excellent story!   It's amazing that John Tyler who was born 230 years ago and took office 139 years ago still has a living grandson.

I know, it's hard to believe, but it's pretty cool.

[RochesterRob]

36 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

I am a huge fan of the person Teddy Roosevelt and his awesome life, and in a time of more turmoil, he could have been a top 3 president. But not a lot happened on his watch as president compared to many others. 

 

I think he gets overly credited as president for having such an interesting life. 

  I consider TR's Presidency big in terms of events.  The Great White Fleet was extremely important especially if you believe in the Monroe Doctrine.  He also understood the concept of world politics as the Panama Canal allowed for projection of the US Navy into Eastern Asia as most of it was stationed on the US East Coast.  He received a Nobel Peace Prize for his negotiation that ended the war between Russia and Japan.

Edited October 7, 2020 by RochesterRob

[Bray Wyatt]

28 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I consider TR's Presidency big in terms of events.  The Great White Fleet was extremely important especially if you believe in the Monroe Doctrine.  He also understood the concept of world politics as the Panama Canal allowed for projection of the US Navy into Eastern Asia as most of it was stationed on the US East Coast.  He received a Nobel Peace Prize for his negotiation that ended the war between Russia and Japan.

 

Not to mention his conservation efforts and the trust busting 

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  I consider TR's Presidency big in terms of events.  The Great White Fleet was extremely important especially if you believe in the Monroe Doctrine.  He also understood the concept of world politics as the Panama Canal allowed for projection of the US Navy into Eastern Asia as most of it was stationed on the US East Coast.  He received a Nobel Peace Prize for his negotiation that ended the war between Russia and Japan.

 

I'm not disputing that he was a good president but that he's overvalued by many because of he was such an impressive guy.

 

If you look at presidents in roughly quartiles, the top 10 presidents undergo quite a drop from the top 2 to the next 8 and even within that 8, you will see a substantial drop from the guys vying for #3 like Jefferson/FDR/TR to whoever is at #10: the likes of Johnson/JFK/Madison. Beyond that, you can relegate some to the disaster bin and there are a lot in the middle who are not particularly distinguished.

 

For all the bluster of "this is the most important election ever" every 4 years, we do not tend to elect the best and most memorable folks!

Edited October 7, 2020 by shoshin

[keepthefaith]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

That's an excellent story!   It's amazing that John Tyler who was born 230 years ago and took office 139 years ago still has a living grandson.

 

What most of us never think about is if you have an 80 year old relative (or if you're 80-ish yourself 😀), that person has been alive for about one-third of our history as a nation.  Think about that. 

[SoTier]

5 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Not a FDR lover but I disagree with your assessment of him not taking the threat from Japan serious enough.  The move of the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor was done at his direction.  FDR was an assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI so he had some insight as to world politics and the projection of military power.  He also had regular contact with Joesph Grew who was US Ambassador to Japan so FDR most likely knew that a move westward by the US Navy to make Midway and Wake Island defendable would be taken as an act of aggression.  Japan held the view that it had rightful claim to those islands.  

 

  As to the rest of the thread.

 

  Theodore Roosevelt.

  Eisenhower.

  Lincoln. 

  Ford.  Let me explain.  He moved the nation off of years of civil disorder by pushing Nixon to the side ASAP.  No small deal given the strife we are seeing today.

  Reagan.  Collapsed the threat from the Soviet Union and released Central and Eastern Europe from its grip.  Just to show you I am not blindly partisan I do consider his deregulation of the credit card industry a very poor decision.  

 

  As to Millard Fillmore.  Came from Cayuga County, NY.  A hotbed of nationally known names such as JD Rockefeller and William Seward (Alaska Purchase by the US) also came from there.

 

Good post. 

 

I guess I'm saying that FDR concentrated too much on Germany while not giving Japan enough credit for trouble making.  He thought Germany much more dangerous than Japan, and some historians have attributed this to Americans' general racist attitudes towards Asians.  Moreover, the US was involved in an undeclared war with Germany in the North Atlantic because it was providing military escort for the US ships carrying war supplies to Great Britain, and that's where FDR and his advisors believed fighting would start.  Meanwhile, Japan was fighting in China and threatening parts of eastern Asia like Vietnam and the Dutch East Indies.   The US imposed an oil embargo and some other sanctions but misjudged what the Japanese would dare.

 

I agree that Ford deserves an honorable mention for handling the "Nixon problem".    Nixon was a polarizing figure over the Vietnam war coupled with an administration repeatedly embarrassed by scandals (Nixon's first VP, Spiro Agnew, resigned after being indicted for graft and later found guilty and served prison time).  Ford had to pick up the pieces of the mess Nixon left behind, including an economy that was mired in "stagflation".

[BuffaloHokie13]

I was the president of my engineering fraternity and I generally don't like other people, so the choice is obvious. I'm going with me.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  Not a FDR lover but I disagree with your assessment of him not taking the threat from Japan serious enough.  The move of the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor was done at his direction.  FDR was an assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI so he had some insight as to world politics and the projection of military power.  He also had regular contact with Joesph Grew who was US Ambassador to Japan so FDR most likely knew that a move westward by the US Navy to make Midway and Wake Island defendable would be taken as an act of aggression.  Japan held the view that it had rightful claim to those islands.  

 

  As to the rest of the thread.

 

  Theodore Roosevelt.

  Eisenhower.

  Lincoln. 

  Ford.  Let me explain.  He moved the nation off of years of civil disorder by pushing Nixon to the side ASAP.  No small deal given the strife we are seeing today.

  Reagan.  Collapsed the threat from the Soviet Union and released Central and Eastern Europe from its grip.  Just to show you I am not blindly partisan I do consider his deregulation of the credit card industry a very poor decision.  

 

  As to Millard Fillmore.  Came from Cayuga County, NY.  A hotbed of nationally known names such as JD Rockefeller and William Seward (Alaska Purchase by the US) also came from there.

 

...nice work...Ford was the calming influence after the Nixon debacle......Reagan's accomplishment on the world stage as well as cleaning up the financial and military weakness on Carter's watch.....think I'd also add in Bush Sr......he and FLOTUS Barbara brought credibility to the country......I'm steering clear of the more recents which are a major source of foment and vitriol here......I like to view this more as a historical evaluation....

[RochesterRob]

30 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Good post. 

 

I guess I'm saying that FDR concentrated too much on Germany while not giving Japan enough credit for trouble making.  He thought Germany much more dangerous than Japan, and some historians have attributed this to Americans' general racist attitudes towards Asians.  Moreover, the US was involved in an undeclared war with Germany in the North Atlantic because it was providing military escort for the US ships carrying war supplies to Great Britain, and that's where FDR and his advisors believed fighting would start.  Meanwhile, Japan was fighting in China and threatening parts of eastern Asia like Vietnam and the Dutch East Indies.   The US imposed an oil embargo and some other sanctions but misjudged what the Japanese would dare.

 

I agree that Ford deserves an honorable mention for handling the "Nixon problem".    Nixon was a polarizing figure over the Vietnam war coupled with an administration repeatedly embarrassed by scandals (Nixon's first VP, Spiro Agnew, resigned after being indicted for graft and later found guilty and served prison time).  Ford had to pick up the pieces of the mess Nixon left behind, including an economy that was mired in "stagflation".

  Americans during the late 1930's did not favor war in Europe nor the Pacific.  Germany's actions by 1941 opened the door for the US to do Lend/Lease as a measure to counter Hitler.  But that was not enough to get the US into direct war until war against the US was declared by Japan and its allies following Pearl Harbor.  I don't know what else Roosevelt could have done other than the oil and raw material embargoes.

 

  I think Ford's action rates higher than an honorable mention given the brief time he served.  I would have to check but I think he signed some accords for long range missile deployment that the groundwork was laid under Nixon.  Also, the stage was set for stagflation as early as 1967 with the conflict between Israel and its neighbors with the culmination being the 1973 war and the resulting Arab Oil Embargo.  Drought in Russia during the early 1970's compounded things with its need to import US wheat which impacted food prices.  I think Carter deserves most of the blame on rising interest rates as it was thought that would combat inflation.  The impact reached high in the US economy then as International Harvester which was a DOW top 30 stock was pushed into failure due to a heavy recession that started off the 1980's hitting key sales areas for it.

[Uncle Joe]

9 hours ago, Kemp said:

<snip>

 

And while he is almost universally reviled, Carter was the most moral man to hold the office in my lifetime.

 

6 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

<Snip>

  Ford.  Let me explain.  He moved the nation off of years of civil disorder by pushing Nixon to the side ASAP.  No small deal given the strife we are seeing today.

  Reagan.  Collapsed the threat from the Soviet Union and released Central and Eastern Europe from its grip.  Just to show you I am not blindly partisan I do consider his deregulation of the credit card industry a very poor decision.  

 

Back in my youth I spent the Fall of 1976 in Washington for a liberal arts college program. We were in the Executive Building and I actually saw Susan Ford on the White House lawn. 
 

I also voted for Jimmy Carter. A very nice, moral man. However a horrible commander in chief as the Iran hostage situation showed.
 

My top 3 in no particular order:
Washington
Lincoln
T Roosevelt
Ok, it was chronological.

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said:

 

Back in my youth I spent the Fall of 1976 in Washington for a liberal arts college program. We were in the Executive Building and I actually saw Susan Ford on the White House lawn. 
 

I also voted for Jimmy Carter. A very nice, moral man. However a horrible commander in chief as the Iran hostage situation showed.
 

My top 3 in no particular order:
Washington
Lincoln
T Roosevelt
Ok, it was chronological.

He got the hostages out alive. He wasn’t the one that got hundreds of Marines killed in Lebanon 

[keepthefaith]

16 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I was the president of my engineering fraternity and I generally don't like other people, so the choice is obvious. I'm going with me.

 

I have a lot of engineering friends and engineers in my family.  Several of them are like this ^^^. Don't really like people, have no empathy, too critical of too many things.  I love them all, but really find the stereotype fascinating and I remind them of their "flaws" all the time.  It makes for some great ball busting.  Total respect though.  I refer to several of them as the smartest people I know. 

[Uncle Joe]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He got the hostages out alive. He wasn’t the one that got hundreds of Marines killed in Lebanon 

From wiki: "Political analysts cited the standoff as a major factor in the continuing downfall of Carter's presidency and his landslide loss in the 1980 presidential election;^[13] the hostages were formally released into United States custody the day after the signing of the Algiers Accords, just minutes after American President Ronald Reagan was sworn into office."

From my recollection Iran wasn't wanting to negotiate with Reagan.

[Tiberius]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Joe said:

From wiki: "Political analysts cited the standoff as a major factor in the continuing downfall of Carter's presidency and his landslide loss in the 1980 presidential election;^[13] the hostages were formally released into United States custody the day after the signing of the Algiers Accords, just minutes after American President Ronald Reagan was sworn into office."

From my recollection Iran wasn't wanting to negotiate with Reagan.

Like I said, they got out alive, those poor Marines on the other hand...