Reasons why I should vote for Biden.....

[3rdnlng]

5 minutes ago, Figster said:

Allow me to repeat myself.  It is the responsibility of the President of the United States to find common goals that unites our country in a time of crisis.

 

Is it Joe Bidens fault Trump has stirred up so much animosity between parties Pelosi refuses to do anything that could help Donald Trump get re - elected?

 

Doing his job would be getting everyone on board to wear a mask. Practice social distancing. Following the science that is telling us these simple procedures could save countless lives. 

 

I'm not rooting for a lackey. I'm rooting for a leader and country that can stand united in the face of adversity and uncertainty..

 

With all due respect my friend this is something Donald Trump is not capable of accomplishing in my humble opinion. 

 

 

Use all of the flowery language you want but it won't change the fact that Trump has had a target on his back since early 2016 or before. Joe Biden was part of a coup against Trump and Pelosi has done everything she could including allowing liars like Schiff and Nadler to try to cripple Trump through an impeachment process based on falsehoods. 

[snafu]

48 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The tax bill was all Paul Ryan, who I understand is now an idiot.

As far as other accomplishments ... first son-in-law helped broker a minor Middle East deal. Trump imposed tariffs that have done nothing of lasting consequence. Mitch McConnell ushered through many judges and a couple (soon 3)  Supreme Court justices. The Fed continued to print money like it's going out of style and even started buying junk bonds of failing corporations.

 

I always find this odd. So many people (perhaps you, perhaps not) consider a Trump to be a complete buffoon with no redeeming qualities.  Then they complain that he doesn’t do anything.  So the question comes to my mind:  Do we want Trump to run things, or do we want Trump to avoid running things?  You described accomplishments that are normally delegated to others (whether these things are great accomplishments or not isn’t the issue).  The President isn’t a King, and even if he were, other people carry out policy. 

 

 

[Figster]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

Use all of the flowery language you want but it won't change the fact that Trump has had a target on his back since early 2016 or before. Joe Biden was part of a coup against Trump and Pelosi has done everything she could including allowing liars like Schiff and Nadler to try to cripple Trump through an impeachment process based on falsehoods. 

I absolutely understand 3rd,

 

I understand why this has happened. I just don't see a way of fixing the problem without moving on.

[bdutton]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

I absolutely understand 3rd,

 

I understand why this has happened. I just don't see a way of fixing the problem without moving on.

 

People need to go to jail and the truth about what they attempted to do be fully published.

[Figster]

1 minute ago, bdutton said:

 

People need to go to jail and the truth about what they attempted to do be fully published.

I don't disagree with any of you that believe some heads need to roll.

 

Or what comes around, goes around...

[billsfan89]

On 10/6/2020 at 6:41 AM, westside2 said:

If any Democrats out there can give me some reasons to vote for him, I'm all ears. Having been a Democrat my entire life, up until recently that is. I would love to return.

Some questions I would like to know.....

1. Do you consider antifa/BLM part of the Democrats? If not, who do they belong too?

 

2. How does Biden plan to restart the economy when he plans on closing coal and oil?

 

3. Will Biden get rid of free trade with China? Will factories and pharmaceuticals return to China?

 

4. Will Biden cancel the tax cuts that has saved thousands of dollars for the middle class?

 

What exactly is his plan for health care other than Obama care and all of its flaws?

 

I would love to have a reason to return back to the party I grew up with. But I need to know what they actually stand for.

Thank you in advance.

 

I hope this helps. I would also like to ask what does the GOP and Trump really offer? Trump is basically George W Bush's policy agenda (tax cuts, deregulation, climate change denial, drill baby drill, neo-conservative foreign policy and literally the same immigration plan and literally 90% of his polices are the Bush policies or very similar) dressed up with a deranged lunatic Tweeting. 

 

1- Antifa isn't a formal organization and BLM as a group has gone far away from their initial message. Neither idea nor group is more a part of the mainstream Democratic party than the Proud Boys or other far right extremist groups are part of the formal mainstream Republican party. Yes while I am sure you can find some Democratic politicians who might have good things to say or some sort of association with either BLM or Antifa they aren't part of the mainstream of the party. As I similarly said I am sure you can find people in the GOP who have affiliations with far right extremist groups that doesn't mean that those groups are carrying any weight in the party. 

 

2- Biden's climate plan is far from the Green New Deal. It is a 30 year plan to get America carbon neutral, it phases out coal (which is antiquated) and other forms of fossil fuel in favor of nuclear and renewable energy. The way you are phrasing the question is like you think Biden is going to come in and in two years he is going to shut down all energy production. His plan is a sensible phased in plan that basically shifts away new energy investment more heavily towards renewables vs. keep throwing money at fossil fuels. The economy could really use the Green Energy jobs that the plan provides. 

 

3- I assume that the US like most countries (Japan has already begun to do this) is going to shift pharmaceutical production and medical equipment production back home, this will happen regardless of who wins the election as I think this will be heavily mandated by the public, the military and various other industries that the Congress actually listens to. Similarly to how weapons are made in the US because it is a national security issue medical supplies and PPE will be subsidized to be made in the US. As far as free trade with China in general I assume Biden will keep the status quo. However keep in mind that Trump's ideal trade policy with China isn't protectionist, Trump's ideal trade policy is both nations having completely free trade. So if you think Trump is going to try and put up trade barriers to China then you are completely wrong he wants to remove all of them. 

 

4- Biden has stated that he wouldn't raise taxes on any family making less than 400k. I generally believe this because when Obama rolled back the Bush tax cuts he did so only for the top bracket, the middle and upper middle class brackets had their tax cuts stay. The Trump tax bill hasn't really put much money back into the middle class. The tax cuts removal of SALT and other deductions that are used by middle class people mitigated the actual money received by those making middle class wages. Generally speaking if you make under 400k I really don't see Biden raising taxes. Even Bernie Sanders who had a much larger vision only raised taxes to fund universal healthcare (which was basically replacing private taxes aka premiums, deductibles, co-pays, co-insurance and out of pocket costs with a small increase to people's taxes and a payroll tax paid for by the employer who wouldn't have to pay for employees insurance premiums.)  

 

The Democrats main stream wing would be considered a conservative party in any other first world nation. Angela Merkel in Germany for example is considered a center right leader. The mainstream Dems prefer more gradual changes and tweaks to the system as opposed to the GOP whose platform just seems to be either everything is fine or cut taxes and regulations no matter what. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by billsfan89

[The Frankish Reich]

29 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I always find this odd. So many people (perhaps you, perhaps not) consider a Trump to be a complete buffoon with no redeeming qualities.  Then they complain that he doesn’t do anything.  So the question comes to my mind:  Do we want Trump to run things, or do we want Trump to avoid running things?  You described accomplishments that are normally delegated to others (whether these things are great accomplishments or not isn’t the issue).  The President isn’t a King, and even if he were, other people carry out policy. 

 

 

Fair question.

Trump clearly has his talents, and those talents were evident in the 2016 primaries. He has a couple big ideas -- all encapsulated in his mind by MAGA -- and those ideas are appealing and comprehensible to many (I'd say the majority) of the American people.

He is not  adept at turning ideas into policy. For that he (as with many presidents; Reagan too shared that "one big idea" emphasis) has to depend on persons who do understand policy and governance. I thought the first year or so of the Trump Administration was successful on his terms. He got the tax cuts through a Republican Congress, depending on Paul Ryan's and Mitch McConnell's expertise. He signaled a new era of corporate responsibility toward American workers with the pre-inauguration Carrier deal. But he didn't lean on expertise in other fields, wasting a lot of his political capital on the Muslim Ban Lite (it took them 3 tries to come up with anything arguably lawful) and later, The Wall. And then came the frustration with working with Washington that led to the dismissal of anyone who knew their way around the corridors of power (save Steve Mnuchin) and an ever increasing reliance on his close circle of family and decrepit old cronies like Rudy Giuliani, and an embittered grudge match against old enemies like the Clintons. He was never impeached based on the Russia investigation, but that emboldened him to do things even more unhinged like the Ukraine affair that did get him impeached. The end result is a squandered opportunity to create a new movement (one I don't agree with, but that I understand) toward a Truman-style American Capitalism rather than a cult of personality that likely won't survive Trump and his family.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[Backintheday544]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Fair question.

Trump clearly has his talents, and those talents were evident in the 2016 primaries. He has a couple big ideas -- all encapsulated in his mind by MAGA -- and those ideas are appealing and comprehensible to many (I'd say the majority) of the American people.

He is not  adept at turning ideas into policy. For that he (as with many presidents; Reagan too shared that "one big idea" emphasis) has to depend on persons who do understand policy and governance. I thought the first year or so of the Trump Administration was successful on his terms. He got the tax cuts through a Republican Congress, depending on Paul Ryan's and Mitch McConnell's expertise. He signaled a new era of corporate responsibility toward American workers with the pre-inauguration Carrier deal. But he didn't lean on expertise in other fields, wasting a lot of his political capital on the Muslim Ban Lite (it took them 3 tries to come up with anything arguably lawful) and later, The Wall. And then came the frustration with working with Washington that led to the dismissal of anyone who knew their way around the corridors of power (save Steve Mnuchin) and an ever increasing reliance on his close circle of family and decrepit old cronies like Rudy Giuliani, and an embittered grudge match against old enemies like the Clintons. He was never impeached based on the Russia investigation, but that emboldened him to do things even more unhinged like the Ukraine affair that did get him impeached. The end result is a squandered opportunity to create a new movement (one I don't agree with, but that I understand) toward a Truman-style American Capitalism rather than a cult of personality that likely won't survive Trump and his family.

 

 

I think there is some redeeming idea

s Trump brought:

 

1. Term limits on politicians

2. Separating lobbyists from politics and not having politicians beholden to lobbyists

 

 

 

 

 

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Fair question.

Trump clearly has his talents, and those talents were evident in the 2016 primaries. He has a couple big ideas -- all encapsulated in his mind by MAGA -- and those ideas are appealing and comprehensible to many (I'd say the majority) of the American people.

He is not  adept at turning ideas into policy. For that he (as with many presidents; Reagan too shared that "one big idea" emphasis) has to depend on persons who do understand policy and governance. I thought the first year or so of the Trump Administration was successful on his terms. He got the tax cuts through a Republican Congress, depending on Paul Ryan's and Mitch McConnell's expertise. He signaled a new era of corporate responsibility toward American workers with the pre-inauguration Carrier deal. But he didn't lean on expertise in other fields, wasting a lot of his political capital on the Muslim Ban Lite (it took them 3 tries to come up with anything arguably lawful) and later, The Wall. And then came the frustration with working with Washington that led to the dismissal of anyone who knew their way around the corridors of power (save Steve Mnuchin) and an ever increasing reliance on his close circle of family and decrepit old cronies like Rudy Giuliani, and an embittered grudge match against old enemies like the Clintons. He was never impeached based on the Russia investigation, but that emboldened him to do things even more unhinged like the Ukraine affair that did get him impeached. The end result is a squandered opportunity to create a new movement (one I don't agree with, but that I understand) toward a Truman-style American Capitalism rather than a cult of personality that likely won't survive Trump and his family.

 

The so called Muslim ban was actually just an enforcement of restrictions of allowing Muslims from certain countries into our country. That list was created by the Obama administration and the countries on that list could not vet their own people. If I remember correctly the Ninth Circuit was the entity calling it unconstitutional. The Wall was a campaign promise and a worthy endeavor. Don't you find it rather odd that the dems, specifically Pelosi fought it tooth and nail saying that a few billion was too expensive, but started out with a 3.5 trillion virus relief package that didn't include cash payments to businesses closed by the virus but did include health care and cash payments to illegal aliens? Remember Pelosi did agree to a deal in early 2018 but then reneged when a favorable judge ruled against Trump's only leverage regarding DACA. Trump had offered 2.5 times the amount of DACA  recipients than Pelosi requested but she then turned him down simply because she could. Another instance of dems wanting the issue more than wanting to solve the problem. 

[Brueggs]

10 hours ago, Tiberius said:

He really is just terrible. If you are that bad a judge of character then I feel bad for you and it really makes me happy your side is losing. We need people that can see a horse is a horse and not blind ourselves with hate. 

 

The DNC is doing a great job and I like winners. 

You see, even when its illuminated for you, all you can see is Trump.  Its keeping you from seeing the mess that is otherwise known as Joe Biden.  You are blinded by hatred, or should I say programmed?

[Capco]

On 10/10/2020 at 12:17 AM, Rob's House said:

President Hitler signs a bill that reduces the tax rate for both of them to 25%.

 

I actually laughed out loud at this.  

[The Frankish Reich]

The best case for Biden: he will rely on people with expertise in their fields of governance rather than on his kids and son-in-law and a bunch of pure political hacks. 

Trump actually started out o.k. in this respect. Mattis at DOD. Kelly at DHS. Mnuchin was a typical Treasury pick, a Wall Street insider (and now the sole survivor other than low profile Departments like Ben Carson at HUD). Sessions was not my cup of tea, but he was an early Trump supporter and fit perfectly with Trump's illegal immigration crackdown. 

And then they started to drop off the map. Mattis replaced by the epitome of the dreaded Military Industrial Complex. Kelly replaced by a semi-lightweight insider, and then by a series of acting jokes and finally by a guy who's primary experience is as a lobbyist. Jared Kushner given more and more complex portfolios to handle. And it all hit its apex with the New and Improved Coronavirus Task Force in which real experts are shunted aside for doctors operating well outside their area of expertise (Atlas) and downright quacks (Dr. Emmanuel, who is "worth listening to" ... if you are trying to exorcise a demon I suppose). And that's what we can expect more of if there's a second Trump term. More family, more nuttery, less knowledge.

I understand that for some here this is a feature of Trump, not a bug. It is the marginalizing of the "Deep State." But for most Americans, there's a real desire to return to normalcy.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The best case for Biden: he will rely on people with expertise in their fields of governance rather than on his kids and son-in-law and a bunch of pure political hacks. 

Trump actually started out o.k. in this respect. Mattis at DOD. Kelly at DHS. Mnuchin was a typical Treasury pick, a Wall Street insider (and now the sole survivor other than low profile Departments like Ben Carson at HUD). Sessions was not my cup of tea, but he was an early Trump supporter and fit perfectly with Trump's illegal immigration crackdown. 

And then they started to drop off the map. Mattis replaced by the epitome of the dreaded Military Industrial Complex. Kelly replaced by a semi-lightweight insider, and then by a series of acting jokes and finally by a guy who's primary experience is as a lobbyist. Jared Kushner given more and more complex portfolios to handle. And it all hit its apex with the New and Improved Coronavirus Task Force in which real experts are shunted aside for doctors operating well outside their area of expertise (Atlas) and downright quacks (Dr. Emmanuel, who is "worth listening to" ... if you are trying to exorcise a demon I suppose). And that's what we can expect more of if there's a second Trump term. More family, more nuttery, less knowledge.

I understand that for some here this is a feature of Trump, not a bug. It is the marginalizing of the "Deep State." But for most Americans, there's a real desire to return to normalcy.

 

Who needs anyone else when you have the amazing Fauci parroting the WHO/China in the beginning and then having to lie about masks because Barry's admin never replenished PPE, even with the mythical "pandemic response team" intact for 6 years prior to Trump taking office?

 

As for returning to normalcy, good luck with that even if Biden wins. 

[Backintheday544]

Simpsons give a good breakdown of why to vote Biden:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSimpsons/status/1315843221155700746

[Warcodered]

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 10/12/2020 at 3:28 PM, Backintheday544 said:

 

I think there is some redeeming idea

s Trump brought:

 

1. Term limits on politicians

2. Separating lobbyists from politics and not having politicians beholden to lobbyists

 

 

 

 

 

...we just need to forever take that nonsense off the table PERIOD......535 marginal lawyers (NOTE 535 includes BOTH sides) are going to bite the hand that feeds them?.....and you thought the private sector would pay better?.....the 535 epitomizes aggrandizement.....finding a "poor one" among the 535 is like finding a poor Union official....good luck.....