What happens if you flip flop Darnold and Allen?

[Mikie2times]

6 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think Darnold would have as much success with this current buffalo bills team. If we are talking draft to now Darnold would be ok if he survived that first year here without serious career altering injuries. I’m not sure Allen survives there. Darnolds confidence is shot. He is not capable of hero ball like josh was, especially that first year when he ran for his life every play almost. Darnold is not that bad, but the Jets are. 
 

I love the comparison because we were arguable in the EXACT same situation as them. Regime change, coach, drafting a franchise quarterback and a ridiculous amount of cap space. Certain Bills fans lost their mind with signings that were not top tier and blasted Beane for Mosley and bell going to jersey and how they’d dominate us for years to come. Two completely different styles of team building. I’m happy with where we are and I think Darnold has tools to be successful, just not sure he can ever recover from the mental aspect of jersey and what they’ve done to him the last 3 years. 

Thank you, I thought the comparison was thought provoking for me based on what you said and I view it very similar as you do. I think for some people that notion might ruffle some feathers somehow implying Josh is not super human but that was not the intention of my post. More just impressed by how well the Bills did at slowly adding each piece and really giving Josh the ability to reach his full potential.

[KD in CA]

They'd both stink.  Josh would be floundering under Gase and a terrible organization.  Darnold would have some pieces around him but wouldn't be able to make it happen clutch time. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by KD in CA

[JerseyBills]

I think the Jets would be a completely different team because his guys would run through a wall for him.  I said this last year after hearing his teammates genuinely gush about him ,Josh has those intangibles you can't teach and love to have in a franchise QB. 

Just yesterday Beasley said regarding his TD , that Josh would risk it all for us , so I'm going to do it too.

Darnold doesn't have that IT factor,  at all. Doesn't strike me as a guy who makes his teammates better. Kinda fits that California, USC QB narrative of being kinda laid back and not a good leader. Essentially Mark Sanchez 2.0

[All_Pro_Bills]

I think a big part of it is the approach of each team.  The Bills appear to have some strategic thinkers with the GM, HC, and OC.  They've created a blueprint to bring Allen along and have added pieces to the offense over the last two off seasons.  The Jets have no such approach.  And Gase is just awful.  While the Jets draft brought a talented LT and WR to the team both are/or have been injured.  They have a lot of holes.    

 

The other part is the make up of the players.  Allen has had to work for everything to this point and plays with a chip.  One story going around is he sought out Tony Romo at the Super Bowl and asked him "how do I get better".  He's driven to prove himself, almost too driven sometimes, and that drive is also transforming into leadership and energizing the entire team.  He is clearly the leader and the face of this team in season 3.  Darnold had a lot of success in college and was looked at as being ready for the pro game coming out of a big school program.  While he and Josh trained with Palmer in the off season you don't hear much, and maybe because we're focused on the Bills, about Darnold picking up his game or any fundamental improvements. 

 

My guess is the Jets tank and get the #1 pick in the 2021 draft and if Lawrence comes out they pick him.  Sam goes somewhere else as a back up initially and maybe works his way to starter in a more stable system.  As there are a few teams that have veterans coming to the end there are a few potential landing spots.    

[BullBuchanan]

Darnold has been surrounded by bad leadership his entire pro career. He hasn't put the team and the coaching staff on his back but not everyone can be expected to do that. 

He needs to get the hell out of there and work with a real staff that can help guide him on how to save his career.

[Pokebball]

26 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think Darnold would have as much success with this current buffalo bills team. If we are talking draft to now Darnold would be ok if he survived that first year here without serious career altering injuries. I’m not sure Allen survives there. Darnolds confidence is shot. He is not capable of hero ball like josh was, especially that first year when he ran for his life every play almost. Darnold is not that bad, but the Jets are. 
 

I love the comparison because we were arguable in the EXACT same situation as them. Regime change, coach, drafting a franchise quarterback and a ridiculous amount of cap space. Certain Bills fans lost their mind with signings that were not top tier and blasted Beane for Mosley and bell going to jersey and how they’d dominate us for years to come. Two completely different styles of team building. I’m happy with where we are and I think Darnold has tools to be successful, just not sure he can ever recover from the mental aspect of jersey and what they’ve done to him the last 3 years. 

I can understand this take and agree with most of it.  I think it's unfair to Josh to assume Josh's attitude and confidence would crash like Darnold's has.  Character is a huge part of any player and I think Josh has that.  It doesn't appear Darnold does.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I thought he and Josh put in the exact same work in the offseason working with Jordan Palmer.

 

Josh and Darnold have the same QB coach they work with for part of the offseason.  They hang out together at times.

 

That doesn't mean they're putting in the "exact same work".  They can both be told the same things, one can work overtime to internalize them and one can nod and go home.

 

Allen came into the league with a veritable bulging mailbag of steaming hot takes on how he needed to improve to be adequate.  Allen says he doesn't pay attention to the media, but you'd have to be living in a hermetically sealed chamber not to have some of the more pungent takes like Aaron Schatz of Football Outsiders "a parody of an NFL QB prospect" and Sam Momson's PFF staff's "not even a replacement level QB" leak through.  A guy can be fired up or beat down by that stuff, and clearly Allen has been fired up, how much by his own internal competitiveness and how much by that noise, who knows?  Plus, like Fitzy, it's clear that Allen just loves to play football.  Give him a gridiron and teammates and he's thrilled, because he knows what an improbable knife-edge he rode to get here so he's gotta know how quickly it could all go away.

 

Darnold came into the league as an annointed star who was going to work with an annointed offensive genius HC after his first season.  The internal expectations and drive for improvement may be a bit different in these circumstances.  I believe Darnold does have a competitive nature and a bit of the "dog" in him, but I also see him more as a Foles-type guy - he can bloom in just the right setting with just the right QB coach and OC who know how to reach him and bring out his best, or he can flounder with the wrong guys.  He doesn't have that Fitzy "underdog" mentality which goes out there and says "OK we can win this.  If we gotta throw on every down, we'll throw on every down" and will just throw his body around and take punishment if that's the only way to get it done.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Why?

 

 

 

 

 

asking for a friend 

[TheBrownBear]

I think Darnold would have gotten to a "good" level quicker than Allen, but he would never have reached the heights we are seeing from Josh now.  I think Josh would have been in much the same situation as Darnold or possibly even worse if he was with the Jets.  That is just a death trap for any quarterback that walks in there.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I called Sam a blockhead for not participating in the combine 

 

I think I was correct.  We got the right guy 

[Bangarang]

Both teams probably suck since Darnold sucks and the Jets have garbage on offense

[DCofNC]

I think you saw what it would be when you threw Josh out there his rookie year with no support.  He can play Superman and put a team on his back.   He’s a football player first and a QB second.  Darnold has never shown me that kind of killer ability.  That said, I would have drafted Darnold before Allen too because he looked to be the better QB prospect.  I think on this team you are looking at Darnold as a possible pro bowler and probably 3-1 record as I don’t see Darnold leading the win with the Rams.  Allen probably has 2 wins with the Jets, he has been a difference maker his whole career (sometimes not in the best of ways lol).  Darnold still could shake out as a very good QB, if the Jets ever surround him with some talent / he leaves.  
 

The Bills hung Allen out to dry as a rookie, he was “meh”.  They built up around him, he looks really good.  The Jets hung Darnold out to dry, he’s dehydrated..  it’s a tough comparison.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

31 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And Baker.  He has playoff caliber talent around him

 

No. Baker is being hidden behind that run game.

 

For all the yards they racked up on dallas, only like 180 something was passing.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

46 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think Darnold would have as much success with this current buffalo bills team. If we are talking draft to now Darnold would be ok if he survived that first year here

 

I think that's a pretty big "if".

 

I had serious doubts that Allen would survive his first year here.  I feel it did set him back and give him some bad habits he had to work through last season.

 

I'm not sure Darnold would have survived with his mental makeup intact, not to mention his body.

 

 

8 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I think you saw what it would be when you threw Josh out there his rookie year with no support.  He can play Superman and put a team on his back.   He’s a football player first and a QB second.  Darnold has never shown me that kind of killer ability.  That said, I would have drafted Darnold before Allen too because he looked to be the better QB prospect.  I think on this team you are looking at Darnold as a possible pro bowler and probably 3-1 record as I don’t see Darnold leading the win with the Rams.  Allen probably has 2 wins with the Jets, he has been a difference maker his whole career (sometimes not in the best of ways lol).  Darnold still could shake out as a very good QB, if the Jets ever surround him with some talent / he leaves.  
 

The Bills hung Allen out to dry as a rookie, he was “meh”.  They built up around him, he looks really good.  The Jets hung Darnold out to dry, he’s dehydrated..  it’s a tough comparison.

 

Oh, Hell, it's no secret here that I would have drafted Rosen before Allen much less Darnold, because I thought he was the more polished NFL prospect.

 

I own it - I missed the importance of mental makeup and the "IT" factor.

[Rc2catch]

13 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

I can understand this take and agree with most of it.  I think it's unfair to Josh to assume Josh's attitude and confidence would crash like Darnold's has.  Character is a huge part of any player and I think Josh has that.  It doesn't appear Darnold does.

I think it would crash. He would of been killed in jersey. 
I’ve believed in years past based on how conservative we were they tried very very hard to not damage Allen’s confidence. Never putting him in positions to fail terribly. Year one if they would of tossed him out there and asked him to throw 40 times a game he might of been picked 25+ times, that hurts any players confidence going forward. Jets basically tell Darnold hey we’re gonna play behind with zero run game and zero pass protection best of luck to you buddy go get us the W. 

[H2o]

Gase would have ruined Allen too. Everything he touches or coaches turns to 💩. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I think Darnold is an okay QB in a terrible situation.  I think the Bills would probably be 2-2 with Darnold as QB.

 

Being that Allen was a big time project, I don’t think the Jets would have provided the same environment as he has with the Bills.  I think they would be 2-2 as well.

[MAJBobby]

41 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Pretty sure they use the exact same QB coach and training regime. It's also hard to throw the ball when you have no WR's and you are getting pummeled before you have 2 seconds to read what is going on. Not a Darnold apologist, but I think the board is drastically underestimating what the Bills have given Allen to work with. Allen's a stud, but from the sounds of it the board seems to think he could have a winning record with the Jets right now which to me is laughable. 

Nope I am not.  I am watching Darnold and Seeing the SAME Mechanical Flaws he has had since college and no improvement.  That doesnt take a team around him.

[DCofNC]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that's a pretty big "if".

 

I had serious doubts that Allen would survive his first year here.  I feel it did set him back and give him some bad habits he had to work through last season.

 

I'm not sure Darnold would have survived with his mental makeup intact, not to mention his body.

 

 

 

Oh, Hell, it's no secret here that I would have drafted Rosen before Allen because I thought he was the more polished NFL prospect.

 

I own it - I missed the importance of mental makeup and the "IT" factor.

All great points. 

[HappyDays]

I don't think Darnold has the mentality needed to succeed in the NFL. Yeah Allen has had a better team put around him but he's pushed through a lot of adversity to get here. Darnold is crumbling under the pressure. The play where he sacked himself has nothing to do with Adam Gase, he is just a coward on the field.