What happens if you flip flop Darnold and Allen?

[Mikie2times]

When I watch Allen this year and see the fruits of his labor, I can't help but notice just how amazing a job our front office has done in putting him in a position to be successful.  It really makes you wonder the % the QB plays in his success and the % the front office does. With Darnold and Allen you probably have the two most extreme cases in each direction. 

 

Allen is immensely talented and as hard a worker as you could find and by all account Darnold is a very hard worker as well. That said, you often see Allen eating a bag of Cheetos after the snap as those long crossing routes are developing. Our offensive line has been fantastic giving Allen time to read defenses. Then you look at the WR position. The route running on this team is perhaps the best in the NFL. You can't cover Cole Beasley, watching the guy run routes is a thing of beauty. Smoke is the same way just faster. Then Diggs is just the total package. Davis and McKenzie is like icing on icing. 

 

What I love so much about all of it is none of it was done over night. Piece here, piece there. I always thought the front office played a role in QB development. It was just really hard for me to tell how much until I saw how well this regime brought Allen around. The QB still needs to be the right guy and I would never take a shred away from Allen as he has worked so hard to become who he is, but what happens if you flip flop Darnold and Allen? Could Allen make this years Jets team a 8-8 squad? 6-10? Would Darnold have us 4-0? Curious as to what people think.....  

[Da webster guy]

Josh may be able to stop the bleeding for the Jets but he'd get killed in the process.

They've tried to boost that Oline but its pretty awful.

 

I still think Darnold has a shot at being a franchise guy somewhere, just not in NY.

[MAJBobby]

Darnold has himself to blame.  He doesnt put the work in during the offseason.  His mechanical issues are still the same issues he has had year in and year out since college.  See Josh actually is working on those every offseason and you can see the mechanical changes take.

[Nuncha]

Flip flop probably means

 

Bills 0-4

Jets 4-0

 

Darnold is hot garbage.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Azucho98

[bills6969]

Darnold has a good arm but lacks the mental make-up that Allen has.  That’s what makes Allen so good.  Allen is a gamer,  has a win at all costs mentality.  He also oozes confidence which inspires the rest of the team.  Darnold had better mechanics coming out of college,  but Allen has made vast improvements to his throwing abilities and seems to see the field a lot better.

[HOUSE]

The Jets had a shot at Josh Rosen but they blew it....

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by HOUSE

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Darnold has himself to blame.  He doesnt put the work in during the offseason.  His mechanical issues are still the same issues he has had year in and year out since college.  See Josh actually is working on those every offseason and you can see the mechanical changes take.

 

I thought he and Josh put in the exact same work in the offseason working with Jordan Palmer.

 

What boggles my mind about Darnold is that he still makes rookie mistakes pretty regularly.  I think a lot of that has to do with being on arguably the worst team in the league, led by the worst HC in the league and Darnold is surrounded by nearly zero talent.  He's trying to make things happen out of desperation.

[Greg S]

4 minutes ago, Azucho98 said:

Flip flop probably means

 

Bills 0-4

Jets 4-0

 

Darnold is hot garbage.

 

The entire Jets team is hot garbage. Allen is the better QB but he also has a much better team and CS around him.

[Rc2catch]

I think Darnold would have as much success with this current buffalo bills team. If we are talking draft to now Darnold would be ok if he survived that first year here without serious career altering injuries. I’m not sure Allen survives there. Darnolds confidence is shot. He is not capable of hero ball like josh was, especially that first year when he ran for his life every play almost. Darnold is not that bad, but the Jets are. 
 

I love the comparison because we were arguable in the EXACT same situation as them. Regime change, coach, drafting a franchise quarterback and a ridiculous amount of cap space. Certain Bills fans lost their mind with signings that were not top tier and blasted Beane for Mosley and bell going to jersey and how they’d dominate us for years to come. Two completely different styles of team building. I’m happy with where we are and I think Darnold has tools to be successful, just not sure he can ever recover from the mental aspect of jersey and what they’ve done to him the last 3 years. 

[Maybe Someday]

I think both teams would be doing about the same. We'd be praising Darnolds growth and the Jets would see a lot of sugar high Josh. 

 

I've often thought the front office and coaches have almost as much to do with a QB development as the player. The Bills have given Josh weapons and continuity so he could be his best. The Jets have old RBs and no WRs. 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I thought he and Josh put in the exact same work in the offseason working with Jordan Palmer.

 

What boggles my mind about Darnold is that he still makes rookie mistakes pretty regularly.  I think a lot of that has to do with being on arguably the worst team in the league, led by the worst HC in the league and Darnold is surrounded by nearly zero talent.  He's trying to make things happen out of desperation.

He does, but then does he take the coaching?  He could b one of those Talented Players that isnt Coachable.  That would be Sam's issue

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Darnold has himself to blame.  He doesnt put the work in during the offseason.  His mechanical issues are still the same issues he has had year in and year out since college.  See Josh actually is working on those every offseason and you can see the mechanical changes take.

I’m sure it has NOTHING to do with his terrible OL, RBs, WRs and TEs.  
 

Darnold has himself and the Jets to blame

[Greg S]

At this point I don't think you can compare Allen and Darnold anymore. A better comparison is probably Allen and Jackson.

[Mikie2times]

9 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Darnold has himself to blame.  He doesnt put the work in during the offseason.  His mechanical issues are still the same issues he has had year in and year out since college.  See Josh actually is working on those every offseason and you can see the mechanical changes take.

Pretty sure they use the exact same QB coach and training regime. It's also hard to throw the ball when you have no WR's and you are getting pummeled before you have 2 seconds to read what is going on. Not a Darnold apologist, but I think the board is drastically underestimating what the Bills have given Allen to work with. Allen's a stud, but from the sounds of it the board seems to think he could have a winning record with the Jets right now which to me is laughable. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

He does, but then does he take the coaching?  He could b one of those Talented Players that isnt Coachable.  That would be Sam's issue

I’d venture to say that you don’t have enough first hand knowledge regarding what Darnold does all offseason (and in season) to make this determination.  
 

Could be the case but I don’t think we’ll truly know until we see him in another uniform.  Zero chance Josh would be as good as he is now if he were on the jets.  

[Mrbojanglezs]

I think the credit for Josh Allen's improvement is mostly on himself, he put the work in on the offseason with Jordan Palmer and got better each year.

 

The coaching continuity helped I am sure, but I am sure Josh Allen would have still gotten better if on the Jets, but definitely not putting up these kind of numbers as the supporting cast is not good.

 

Josh didn't have a lot of reps in college, some say Baker/Darnold already had 10,000 more throwing reps then Allen, so Allen was always about potential. Darnold was way closer to his ceiling.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Mrbojanglezs

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Greg S said:

At this point I don't think you can compare Allen and Darnold anymore. A better comparison is probably Allen and Jackson.

And Baker.  He has playoff caliber talent around him

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

6 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

Darnold has a good arm but lacks the mental make-up that Allen has.  That’s what makes Allen so good.  Allen is a gamer,  has a win at all costs mentality.  He also oozes confidence which inspires the rest of the team.  Darnold had better mechanics coming out of college,  but Allen has made vast improvements to his throwing abilities and seems to see the field a lot better.

Think you hit the nail on the head with your first point. 

 

Josh is a gamer and a 'dog' as his teammates have described him. He's actively demonstrated that on plays like the Hurdle of Anthony Barr, the 4th down conversion last year against Dallas, and the trampling of Van Noy and Ogbah in Week 2 vs Miami. He lives and breathes football and you can see how much he cares about the team and the fanbase every minute of every game.

 

As someone who has been optimistic about Darnold until this season and thought he could put it all together (the turnovers were always my main concern with Sam, but I thought he would clean that up), I genuinely do not see any of those traits in Darnold. I don't see a guy that is a leader and inspires his teammates. The Jets deserve a lot of the blame, but he hasn't shown me any reason to continue believing in his potential. 

[machine gun kelly]

Gugs, they are housemates at Palmers camp a good portion of the off season so you’re right.  This is a dumb argument as Darnold is learning bad habits from a badly coached and managed team, and needs to go nuclear to get the h%# out of that dumpster fire before it ruins him.  Take whatever they give you to play behind one of the older players.  NO, Indy, TB, or Pitt all have good teams, we’ll coached, lots of talent, and can groom him.  If he sits behind one of these guys that probably will retire after 2021, then he can resurrect himself, learn behind one of the guys who are probably all going to the HOF (even Rivers as many don’t want to agree with that one). albeit not right away.  All of them have coaches, RB’s, pretty good lines, WR’s, and some of these teams have excellent TE’s.  It’s not like behind Wilson at the Hawks or even GB where you don’t know when they move on.

 

Darnold could not do what Allen is doing as Allen is just better, but he’s also been well coached.  I really want Darnold to do well.  That’s with all sincerity.  I actually pity the guy at this point.  His parents must look at Allen and are quietly saying to each other not even to Sam, man if he just went to the Bills, or the Ravens, he’d be a winner, and he probably would be a winner.  I still will take Allen though.  History will show that barring injuries over the next 10 years.

 

I’ve said for awhile I’m cautiously optimistic on Allen.  I’m all in on 17 Red (little Vegas metaphor) now, amd don’t need to see anymore.  He has the team, playing with confidence, and the handcuffs have come off Allen from the coaches.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Darnold started as a better QB, Josh has passed Darnold and is pulling away. 
 

Darnold has potential to be average NFL QB, Josh has potential to be an Elite QB.