This Defense needs a proper 1 Technique Guy

[Thurman#1]

4 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Luiget came in cold and was solid last year. Jordan Phillips came in from Miami and played well pretty quick. 
 

What does he have to really learn? Plug these two gaps. I don’t think it takes a long time to learn how to do that especially when he’s been doing it his whole career. 

 

 

Liuget was OK, but not particularly good. He was here from Week 5 to Week 16 and totalled 134 defensive snaps.

 

Week 10, he had 17

then 19,

then 12,

then 17,

then 0

then 21,

then 38 in week 17 when it didn't matter.

 

 

 

[JMF2006]

They looked a lot better today clogging the running lanes and getting good penetration. 

[Rochesterfan]

20 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Luiget came in cold and was solid last year. Jordan Phillips came in from Miami and played well pretty quick. 
 

What does he have to really learn? Plug these two gaps. I don’t think it takes a long time to learn how to do that especially when he’s been doing it his whole career. 

 

Luiget came in and played about 10 percent of the snaps - not exactly big numbers and he wasn’t exactly a run stuffer.  
 

The entire defense is based upon fitting together and doing your 1 of 11 and sometimes as we saw with Jordan Phillips - he freelanced a bit leaving gaps in the defense.

 

Getting a guy and saying plug these 2 holes - just does not cut it.  It is understanding what your role is and how to handle your responsibilities to allow another to get to their responsibilities. 
 

It worked fine as they all got more familiar with each other.
 

 

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I also thought it was Phillips's best game and he needed it. I also thought Ed Oliver played the run really nicely yesterday.

 

I honestly think yesterday linebacker was the biggest issue with the D. Carr did a lot of hard play action causing Edmunds to bite and it hurt us. Oh and AJ Klein is less mobile than my grandad and he has been dead 2 years  

Fully agree.  Outside of Milano the linebackers are pretty bad on this team right now.   I am to the point with Edmunds where I dont want them to spend any more cash on the guy.   He just doesnt have the instincts to play Mike.   Klein should never see the field again unless there is a total loss in terms of injury. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

47 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Luiget came in and played about 10 percent of the snaps - not exactly big numbers and he wasn’t exactly a run stuffer.  
 

The entire defense is based upon fitting together and doing your 1 of 11 and sometimes as we saw with Jordan Phillips - he freelanced a bit leaving gaps in the defense.

 

Getting a guy and saying plug these 2 holes - just does not cut it.  It is understanding what your role is and how to handle your responsibilities to allow another to get to their responsibilities. 
 

It worked fine as they all got more familiar with each other.
 

 

Who said snacks would come in and play 100% of the snaps?  Make his role to plug gaps to start so that’s his job and 1/11th. Put him in on obvious run downs. You’re overthinking this. It’s not hard to give a player a small role and have them produce off the street. It happens very often.

The raiders ran the ball 19 times with their backs. Luiget’s first game in buffalo he played 17 snaps. Why couldn’t Harrison play the same amount of snaps ad luiget off the street?

 

If the player can’t handle what you’re asking him to do, pull him out of the game. If he can keep playing him in that role, if he can handle more give him more. Phillips freelancer because he was more of a pass rusher. A run stuffer like Harrison isn’t going to be freelancing his first week here or ever

57 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Liuget was OK, but not particularly good. He was here from Week 5 to Week 16 and totalled 134 defensive snaps.

 

Week 10, he had 17

then 19,

then 12,

then 17,

then 0

then 21,

then 38 in week 17 when it didn't matter.

 

 

 

The point is he came in and played shortly after he was signed.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Not at the table Karlos

[Pbomb]

Our run defense struggled in the rams game but I thought played well in the other three. I don’t think that’s the bill’s problem. It’s our pass rush the last 2 weeks and pass defense that’s been struggling 

[BillsDiehard]

Agreed...Damon Harrison would be an immediate upgrade! Star and Zo are missed...

[GunnerBill]

It all works together too.... last year we were a very good defense on 1st down so we forced people into much more of the conventional drop back game on 2nd and 3rd down and that allows Edmunds to get into the passing lanes and our defensive backs to focus on coverage and not worry about run support. Because we are winning less on 1st down teams are getting into 2nd and 3rd and manageable and we are being play actioned to death where Edmunds is getting picked on a little more biting on play fakes and where our DBs are having to hedge their bets a bit more. They did get more creative in the 2nd half today in their calls but I don't think that is the right long term blueprint for this defense. I think we just have to tighten up our fundamentals all around. That means the defensive line has to get off blocks in the run game, the linebackers have to have gap integrity and we have to force teams into those longer 2nd and 3rd downs.

[clayboy54]

In my opinion, the loss of Lorenzo hurt because of his leadership. It sure appeared to me that Norman brought some of that Sunday. That might be exactly what our D needs. When they play cohesively as a tight unit, they are good across the board. When you start bringing in unfamiliar faces the cohesiveness drops.

 

In the postgame interviews, I found it interesting to hear that guys were saying they miss the 12th man more than I ever knew. They feed off that energy and it must be tough to generate that energy internally. Hopefully, we can get fans in the stands and help them out a bit moving forward.

[Rc2catch]

I don’t have worries. Mcdermott is no dummy and it’s not like they are not watching the film and seeing what’s going on. It’s correctable with our current personnel imo. They didn’t forget how to execute this defense they’re just taking some time to gel. 

[SectionC3]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I also thought it was Phillips's best game and he needed it. I also thought Ed Oliver played the run really nicely yesterday.

 

I honestly think yesterday linebacker was the biggest issue with the D. Carr did a lot of hard play action causing Edmunds to bite and it hurt us. Oh and AJ Klein is less mobile than my grandad and he has been dead 2 years  

 

Klein is stiff.  Agreed.  They went right after him.  I think we miss J Phillips’s pressure, too.  (Different issue; we’re talking run here, but still a salient point.) 

[Uncle Joe]

It was interesting to see the Dline play somewhat better in the 2nd half. It made me wonder about the hands on hips conditioning against the Rams. Maybe they were in a little better game shape this week.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3.7 ypc looks fine to me especially vs good RB. 
 

Pass defense was the weakness imo

[26TrapDraw]

9 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Their run fits were better today. Seems communication and execution are off. Im not really concerned about the defense. That said I would love if they signed Snacks.

Get that. At the same time if this defense was as complete as it was last year when the middle of it stopped the run would anyone even question that the Bills were legit SB contenders ? I cant believe its even a question but I AM worried about the defense.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, BeefCurtns said:

Get that. At the same time if this defense was as complete as it was last year when the middle of it stopped the run would anyone even question that the Bills were legit SB contenders ? I cant believe its even a question but I AM worried about the defense.

They've been inconsistent so far on defense, that includes the pass defense as well. Im not worried about the defense yet. Just need to put a full game together.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede

[PaattMaann]

I thought our run defense was very much improved yesterday...even without a true 1 tech

[Stank_Nasty]

Quick excerpt from Joe B's weekly post game article on the athletic. Figured it was pretty fitting for this thread.

 

4. The Bills switch up their defensive tackle rotation — and it worked

After Darrell Henderson and the Rams dominated the line of scrimmage, the Bills knew something had to change. The Raiders feature talented running back Josh Jacobs and the Bills couldn’t just trot out the same personnel and expect different results. The defensive tackles were the culprits, getting pushed around far too often and easily, so the Bills changed up things. Last week, the Bills used Ed Oliver at three-technique and started Quinton Jefferson next to him at one-technique. On the back half of their rotation, they had Vernon Butler line up at three-technique, next to one-technique Harrison Phillips. The problem is, Jefferson isn’t well-suited to hold the point of attack and help the run game as the one-technique and the Rams took advantage.

This week, the Bills switched things immediately and gave Phillips the start at one-technique next to Oliver. Then, when the Bills went to their rotation, they subbed in Jefferson for Oliver at three-technique, and Butler made the switch to one-technique. The results were night and day against the run. The combination of Oliver and Phillips was on the field for 35 snaps and allowed only 47 rushing yards on 13 carries by running backs (an average of 3.6 yards per carry). Seven of those rushing attempts went for 2 or fewer yards. Jefferson and Butler were even better. They were on the field together for 30 snaps and allowed just 19 yards on six attempts to running backs, or 3.2 yards per carry. Of those yards, 16 of the 19 were gained on one play. The Bills highlighted the skills of their defensive tackles much more appropriately this week, and the results were telling. Given the successes, those pairings will likely continue next week as well.

[hemma]

Jacobs popped a 16 yarder, but little else.

I thought the run D looked pretty good yesterday.  A couple of missed tackles, but all in all, pretty solid.

[MAJBobby]

11 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

We had Liguet and Star last year. Big ugly's at the 1.

 

Oliver, Phillips, Jefferson are good options at 3 technique.

 

I think people dismiss Liuget's contributions last year. He provided a rotation to keep Star fresh, and the run D was better after he was signed.

 

This year we are light at DT this year. We need a few 'big uglies' added to DT. Liguet and or 'Snacks' anyone?

 

The last I knew Liuget is on the Texans PC. Snacks is unsigned.

 

 

No What they need is a pass rush.  Josh Jacobs was 15 for 48 and a 3.2 YPC.  If this is the offense that the Bills will have all year they need to start getting to the passer. 

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Quick excerpt from Joe B's weekly post game article on the athletic. Figured it was pretty fitting for this thread.

 

4. The Bills switch up their defensive tackle rotation — and it worked

After Darrell Henderson and the Rams dominated the line of scrimmage, the Bills knew something had to change. The Raiders feature talented running back Josh Jacobs and the Bills couldn’t just trot out the same personnel and expect different results. The defensive tackles were the culprits, getting pushed around far too often and easily, so the Bills changed up things. Last week, the Bills used Ed Oliver at three-technique and started Quinton Jefferson next to him at one-technique. On the back half of their rotation, they had Vernon Butler line up at three-technique, next to one-technique Harrison Phillips. The problem is, Jefferson isn’t well-suited to hold the point of attack and help the run game as the one-technique and the Rams took advantage.

This week, the Bills switched things immediately and gave Phillips the start at one-technique next to Oliver. Then, when the Bills went to their rotation, they subbed in Jefferson for Oliver at three-technique, and Butler made the switch to one-technique. The results were night and day against the run. The combination of Oliver and Phillips was on the field for 35 snaps and allowed only 47 rushing yards on 13 carries by running backs (an average of 3.6 yards per carry). Seven of those rushing attempts went for 2 or fewer yards. Jefferson and Butler were even better. They were on the field together for 30 snaps and allowed just 19 yards on six attempts to running backs, or 3.2 yards per carry. Of those yards, 16 of the 19 were gained on one play. The Bills highlighted the skills of their defensive tackles much more appropriately this week, and the results were telling. Given the successes, those pairings will likely continue next week as well.

That's interesting stuff. Thanks, Stank.  

 

McDermott says all the time it starts with his front four, and he hasn't been getting enough out of them.   Someone post last week that Hughes ranks really high in the league in pressures, but other than that, I think the pass rush has been mediocre.   When they blitz, it seems worse.   The blitzers just seem to clog things up and no one breaks free.  

 

I'm no expert in the run game, but this discussion about the tackle rotation is interesting.  It's classic McDermott, always fiddling, always finding a way to make things better.   Being tough in the run game is critical because, as people have been saying, Edmunds isn't a real run stopping mlb.  Plus, when the dline isn't doing a good job on the run, Edmunds' passing defense is more limited because the play action pulls him in.  

 

As I said in my Review last night, I think Edmunds had a good game.  I guess I missed the plays people are complaining about here, but I don't think we're going to see the Bills move on from Edmunds any time soon.  He covers the middle passing zones better than probably any middle linebacker in the league, and he gets to the edge extraordinarily well, too.   Yesterday he tackled better and led the team with 12 tackles.   He was around the ball all day.   Given how special he is, I expect the Bills will make the d line a continuing priority, because when the Dline is playing well, Edmunds becomes a major problem for the opponent.