Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 2 hours ago, DCofNC said: In all fairness, Lamb and Jeudy are killing it and could have been had for pretty much the same picks. Both are on rookie deals and locked up for 5 years, so try not to be too pompous. What's your thinking there? I'm not a draft value maven, but I Think Not. For Diggs, we gave up: Pick #22 in the first round, a 5th and 6th round pick, and a next year's 4th that devalues a round for being next year. (We got back a 7th) This Draft Value Chart (which I believe is considered to under-value 1st round picks based on current trades) says the difference between #22 and #14 (1 pick above Jeudy) is 320 points. The draft value of #22 5th and 6th and a second 5th (next year 4th) is 81.4, or almost exactly 1/4 of the difference between #22 and #14. At the least, we'd have been talking about giving up our 2nd round pick to trade up from #22 to #14 - and that's assuming someone wants to trade. Last year, the Steelers traded to move from #20 to #10 (pretty close to what we would have had to do for Lamb) and gave the Broncos their 2nd and a 2020 3rd I think if we drafted a receiver in the 1st, it would likely not have been Lamb or Jeudy. And if we tried to move up for Lamb or Jeudy from #22 to #10-14, it would have almost certainly have cost far more than a 5th and a 6th round pick. Likely a 2nd and next years 3rd or 4th. 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 52 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I remember a lot of people complaining relative to the price Arizona paid for Hopkins, and also complaining we should never trade a first round pick for a WR. 40 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Which was a ridiculous complaint Arizona robbed Houston you can't expect that to happen. Interview was great he definitely seems to enjoy playing hear plus what he had to say about Gabriel Davis has me excited about what the rook can do. Different deals, as Hopkins was going to be FAR more expensive much sooner. A PROVEN #1 WR is well worth a 1st round pick (and change). Drafting a guy is a crap shoot. I liked the trade then, I LOVE the trade now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 3 hours ago, kota said: just makes you wonder what happened in Minnesota. Media portrayed him as a Diva. He has been anything but. Dude just wants to win. My guess is that he didn't like Kirk Cousins much. I think on a personal level, there's no dislike as such. They probably weren't playing Call of Duty together or joking around, but I think they're both decent guys. Cousins throwing to a WR like Diggs is a bit like giving a Porsche Boxster to a guy who always drives 5 miles under the speed limit. It's not that the car can't do what the guy needs; it's that it has capabilities that aren't being explored. And if those unexplored capabilities (switching back to football) might win the team a game, that's got to be frustrating to a through-and-through competitive guy. I think Beasley started out last year being pretty frustrated at times (that helmet throw!), when he was open and Josh didn't see or wouldn't throw to him, but an open line of communication and trying constantly to get closer to the same page, as well as seeing how much of himself Josh put out there every game seems to have settled him down. And of course this year, Josh is making throws he wouldn't try last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfield45 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Diggs was the right move over a rookie WR b/c a rookie #1 WR cannot elevate the game of a young QB. Allen needed Diggs, and his presence is showing to have worked in helping Allen develop. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What's your thinking there? I'm not a draft value maven, but I Think Not. For Diggs, we gave up: Pick #22 in the first round, a 5th and 6th round pick, and a next year's 4th that devalues a round for being next year. (We got back a 7th) This Draft Value Chart (which I believe is considered to under-value 1st round picks based on current trades) says the difference between #22 and #14 (1 pick above Jeudy) is 320 points. The draft value of #22 5th and 6th and a second 5th (next year 4th) is 81.4, or almost exactly 1/4 of the difference between #22 and #14. At the least, we'd have been talking about giving up our 2nd round pick to trade up from #22 to #14 - and that's assuming someone wants to trade. Last year, the Steelers traded to move from #20 to #10 (pretty close to what we would have had to do for Lamb) and gave the Broncos their 2nd and a 2020 3rd I think if we drafted a receiver in the 1st, it would likely not have been Lamb or Jeudy. And if we tried to move up for Lamb or Jeudy from #22 to #10-14, it would have almost certainly have cost far more than a 5th and a 6th round pick. Likely a 2nd and next years 3rd or 4th. Lamb went at 17, so let’s talk about moving 5 spots, the reality of the situation. If you want to cherry pick and act like somebody could not actually see the draft in front of them and know who was on the board. So let’s say we have to move to 16, now look at the cost and the value to move to 10 is way higher than to move to 14, so just read your own chart. Even less to go to 16. Now look at the contract implications, Diggs is paid 3x what the rookies are making and his contract runs out before them. So by the time they get to “real money” he’s going to be looking for top money. So take your extra 4 catches and shove them in terms of value. Again, Diggs is doing great. He’s a stud, no denying it, love having him. To say it was far better than moving to 16 to take Lamb, not an easy argument in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, CaliBills said: I honestly believe it was Cousins and that is it. Cousins has this "high and mighty' type attitude. I remember watching this video with him talking to Allen when Allen was coming out for the draft. And he just came across as a very dislikable person. Do you mean "The Wake-Up Call" series? I thought the series intro came across as stiff and cocky, but I assume someone wrote a script Cousins was reading. During his actual unscripted interactions with Allen, Cousins didn't come across to me as dislikeable. Cerebral and reserved, yes, but not a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Lamb went at 17, so let’s talk about moving 5 spots, the reality of the situation. Um, no? The reality of the situation is you don't seem willing or able to acknowledge that moving from #22 to #16 or #15 could not have been done for a 5th and 6th round pick and a 4th next year (with a 7th rd back in change). And you're tossing in salary differential, which wasn't part of your initial post. I'm outta here 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 4 hours ago, kota said: just makes you wonder what happened in Minnesota. Media portrayed him as a Diva. He has been anything but. Dude just wants to win. My guess is that he didn't like Kirk Cousins much. I listen to a Buckeye podcast with Chris Spielman and he sometimes discusses the Vikes because his brother is the GM. He said they never wanted to trade him, but they knew he didn’t want to be there. The offer was so good they decided to take it because of that. I do not think he ever gelled with Cousins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Um, no? The reality of the situation is you don't seem willing or able to acknowledge that moving from #22 to #16 or #15 could not have been done for a 5th and 6th round pick and a 4th next year (with a 7th rd back in change). And you're tossing in salary differential, which wasn't part of your initial post. I'm outta here i feel your pain. It was pretty much established on and before draft day that the Bills could have moved up to maybe 18 for the capital in the Diggs move. Dude is making things up Hap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Diggs likes winning.....go figure Meanwhile.....his former team is falling apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dma0034 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 The Diggs trade was the correct trade. That said: Jefferson just destroyed the Titans to the tune of 175 yards in his 3rd start. I'll take Diggs but this could end up as one of those things where it is a win-win. The reason why anyone is mad about the 1st was because of Hopkins. It was even that Hopkins was traded for a 2nd; the Cardinals got to give them David Johnson and his cap too. It would be like giving the Vikings a 2nd and Star for Diggs. BOB is such a fool. Wish he was the GM of the Patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 7 hours ago, H2o said: Jeudy has 13 catches and Lamb 16. Diggs has 20 even getting covered by each team's best CB. Jeudy has 173 yds and Lamb 230 through 3 games. Diggs 288 yds with the aforementioned attention. Jeudy and Lamb each have 0 TD's. Diggs has 2 with the aforementioned attention. Jeudy has also been dropping easy catches. The rooks are alright, but give me Diggs any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Firstly the assertion you responded to that Jeudy and Lamb could have been had for "similar picks" is not true. Brandon Beane has talked about the fact that they had some discussions and calculated where they could get to in the 1st for this value and that it would probably be a place where the top 3 guys were gone. But it also comes down to where the Bills are as a team too. The Bills window is now. I love Jeudy and Lamb. Think they will be players in the league. It was genuinely an excellent receiver class but the Bills had the chance to get a prove entity, an elite route runner, in his prime (not at 29 or 30 with a year or two left) to help the team win NOW. That is what made the Diggs deal such a no brainer. This was the critical year for the franchise and their young Quarterback. If there is ever a time in the NFL to roll the dice this was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Firstly the assertion you responded to that Jeudy and Lamb could have been had for "similar picks" is not true. Brandon Beane has talked about the fact that they had some discussions and calculated where they could get to in the 1st for this value and that it would probably be a place where the top 3 guys were gone. But it also comes down to where the Bills are as a team too. The Bills window is now. I love Jeudy and Lamb. Think they will be players in the league. It was genuinely an excellent receiver class but the Bills had the chance to get a prove entity, an elite route runner, in his prime (not at 29 or 30 with a year or two left) to help the team win NOW. That is what made the Diggs deal such a no brainer. This was the critical year for the franchise and their young Quarterback. If there is ever a time in the NFL to roll the dice this was it. I think you meant to quote someone else my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, H2o said: I think you meant to quote someone else my friend. No I meant to quote you in support of your comment. The point is not just "are Lamb and Jeudy good?" It is "who is the best option for a Bills team that is in a window?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No I meant to quote you in support of your comment. The point is not just "are Lamb and Jeudy good?" It is "who is the best option for a Bills team that is in a window?" Ahhhh, gotcha my friend. I absolutely take Diggs for that reason. He's proven and he's an upper tier, if not elite, WR in this league. DCofNC says they are "crushing it" right now when in actuality Jeudy is not crushing it. I believe both players, he and Lamb, will be good. They were 2 of the top 3 prospects in this draft. For this team though, Diggs was ABSOLUTELY the right choice and we have him under contract at a reasonable rate for the next few years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 15 hours ago, JoPoy88 said: Wonder what the “shoulda kept the pick” cats are doing nowadays 🤔 15 hours ago, Dr. Who said: Hanging out with the Josh Allen is a glorified running back crowd. In a conference room at PFF headquarters. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Seems like a hindsight discussion. Anyone can look at what Diggs has done for this team, and he wanted to leave. He was proven, would contribute from the first day, and the NFLR guys the other day were commenting when a team gives away a top WR, like MN, or Houston with Hopkins, the old teams have not started out well. I couldn’t be happier about the trade, and we didn’t fork out Fort Knox like AZ did for Hopkins. Yes, we advanced him more of his contract which helped us, but the overall contract is flat. Considering what some of the other top 5 WR’s are getting, we’re doing well. Outside of maybe TE, and even that we’re not sure as Kroft had a good game, and Knox we can only hope will improve. We have the line, stable of RB’s, a true starting QB and the results are showing with these offensive performances. Welcome to Buffalo Diggs. We luv ya here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Hard not to smile watching that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comebackkid Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 I think one of the main points about Diggs was.. He was a sure thing in a year you can't be sure about much. Regardless of what could have been done in the draft you were putting a lot eggs in the basket of chance. Sometimes a sure thing is worth the extra cost and I'm sure this was the reasoning beane had before the season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 What a selfish player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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