Rc2catch Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Actually, the big issue is (and has always been) how the refs selectively choose to enforce these penalties during the game. For example, the play before Kroft's catch that was inexplicably ruled an INT, was a holding call on Mitch Morse. @Simon commented elsewhere that he saw Morse holding all game. OK, so at the start of the game, players kind of feel out what the officiating crew is going to allow, and Morse has it in his head "they're gonna let us hold". Now all of a sudden on an important possession for the Bills late in the 3Q, the refs make 1st and 10, 1st and 18 on the Bills 21 by CALLING a holding penalty. That clearly influences the game. (then on the next play, that phony INT ruling ices the influence but I digress. Check out how PFR has currently scored that play though). My point is, the rules have to be consistently enforced. If the refs have made a decision to not call offensive holding, then don't call offensive holding. Don't call it selectively at key points in the game. They did it in the super bowl. Bosa was eating the chiefs alive, then they were allowed to hold him non stop in the second half. I didn’t care who won or have a favorite in the matchup so I was pretty objective I feel on that one. It’s a big issue when it becomes discretion as opposed to actual rules 1
MJS Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Doesn’t really matter if this is true or not true. All 32 teams playing under the same rules, same refs. It does matter if rules aren't being followed. If an offensive lineman is clearly holding they should call it, or they should change the rule. As always, though, these rules are being inconsistently enforced from game to game and even from play to play in the same game. That's the real problem. Edited September 30, 2020 by MJS 2
mannc Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) This "rule emphasis change" has unintended consequences. There are two ways to stop an NFL passing attack: Don't let receivers get open and get after the passer. Teams like SF, Chicago and Washington have sunk huge resources into acquiring pass rushers; that is the identity of their defenses. If offensive lines are suddenly able hold with near impunity, it neutralizes pass rushers (although it didn't seem to help against Aaron Donald), and makes defensive back play paramount. If this change is permanent, the value of true cover cornerbacks is going to go through the roof and teams who have invested heavily in pass rushers will be left holding the bag. Edited September 30, 2020 by mannc 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Doesn’t really matter if this is true or not true. All 32 teams playing under the same rules, same refs. But that's the problem. Are they? And are the same refs actually calling the game the same way for both teams, consistently all game?
Forward Progress Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 32 minutes ago, QB Bills said: This is stupid. The NFL is becoming the CFL where it's all about offense. One side of the ball shouldn't be rendered next to irrelevant. I actually like watching a good, punishing defense and I don't think I'm alone. You're not alone 2
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 Other than "illegal block in the back", offensive holding flag is the most bogus and unnecessary. Good for the NFL for cutting down the penalty calling on what happens routinely. 2
MJS Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Other than "illegal block in the back", offensive holding flag is the most bogus and unnecessary. Good for the NFL for cutting down the penalty calling on what happens routinely. Well if they want to not call it they should change the rule. As long as they have the rule in place they should call it.
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, MJS said: Well if they want to not call it they should change the rule. As long as they have the rule in place they should call it. That's one option.
thenorthremembers Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said: Jerome Boger begs to differ If I never see him, Tony Corrente, or John Hussey again it will be too soon.
syhuang Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 So this season officials don't call holding on all teams instead of just Patriots? 😉 1 1
Saxum Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 If the attitude is higher ratings is better for NFL because it generates more revenue that is a slippery slope for it leads to certain teams need to win because they are better for ratings whether it is star players (like wrestling), teams in high population areas, etc. 2
Kwai San Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Other than "illegal block in the back", offensive holding flag is the most bogus and unnecessary. Amazeballs how much this one has been minimized. Any given game last year would have 5-6 of those flags per game. Now? Maybe 1-3 tops. Those blocks in the back calls always seemed ticky tacky to me and annoyed the blazes outa me. I was a HS and DII/III football official for 15 years and that was one flag I didn't throw unless it affected the actual play directly. Same for holding. 1
StHustle Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, mannc said: This "rule emphasis change" has unintended consequences. There are two ways to stop an NFL passing attack: Don't let receivers get open and get after the passer. Teams like SF, Chicago and Washington have sunk huge resources into acquiring pass rushers; that is the identity of their defenses. If offensive lines are suddenly able hold with near impunity, it neutralizes pass rushers (although it didn't seem to help against Aaron Donald), and makes defensive back play paramount. If this change is permanent, the value of true cover cornerbacks is going to go through the roof and teams who have invested heavily in pass rushers will be left holding the bag. You are exactly right. It will also effect these guys stats which effect their contract negotiations. However, if the playing field is truly level with refs leagu wide making these adjustments then I guess front offices will have to adjust their benchmarks for what sack numbers and pressure stats are considered elite.
simpleman Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 Another take on this. If refs are allowed the personal latitude to selectively enforce the rules to make the game more exciting and be more profitable for the NFL, it creates the environment where a few selective choices on enforcement can make the game more exciting and turn blowouts into close games (like the last game). And when you do that you affect the gambling payouts for the game. And with legalized online gambling, the opportunity to artificially make or lose money by whoever the "house" is. As the line between the teams and the owners becoming involved in profits from online gambling becomes more blurred, the temptations to selectively enforce the rules by the refs to enable someone's profit becomes more morally acceptable. (affecting overs and unders and other lines, etc)
Utah John Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Actually, the big issue is (and has always been) how the refs selectively choose to enforce these penalties during the game. For example, the play before Kroft's catch that was inexplicably ruled an INT, was a holding call on Mitch Morse. @Simon commented elsewhere that he saw Morse holding all game. OK, so at the start of the game, players kind of feel out what the officiating crew is going to allow, and Morse has it in his head "they're gonna let us hold". Now all of a sudden on an important possession for the Bills late in the 3Q, the refs make 1st and 10, 1st and 18 on the Bills 21 by CALLING a holding penalty. That clearly influences the game. (then on the next play, that phony INT ruling ices the influence but I digress. Check out how PFR has currently scored that play though). My point is, the rules have to be consistently enforced. If the refs have made a decision to not call offensive holding, then don't call offensive holding. Don't call it selectively at key points in the game. Sometimes it seems the officials are there to carry out a script, like a movie or a play. The Bills were winning too easily, and the glamour LA team was embarrassed, so it was time to make the game a little more interesting.
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, mannc said: This "rule emphasis change" has unintended consequences. There are two ways to stop an NFL passing attack: Don't let receivers get open and get after the passer. Teams like SF, Chicago and Washington have sunk huge resources into acquiring pass rushers; that is the identity of their defenses. If offensive lines are suddenly able hold with near impunity, it neutralizes pass rushers (although it didn't seem to help against Aaron Donald), and makes defensive back play paramount. If this change is permanent, the value of true cover cornerbacks is going to go through the roof and teams who have invested heavily in pass rushers will be left holding the bag. Suddenly? It's pervasive and therefore impossible to enforce in an equitable manner. Anyway....it was only a year ago: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27282277/nfl-officials-emphasize-offensive-holding-19
WideNine Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 Honestly, I welcome anything that reduces the amount of flags being thrown. As long as it is applied somewhat equally to all teams and does not harm player safety. Maybe it is just me, but I have watched the game for years and have watched it gradually become less and less enjoyable as more and more rules were introduced and the game flow was interrupted over and over again with officiating. Flags on interior linemen, barely a thing a decade or two ago, but you would see them regularly wiping out a huge run away from the infraction or a long gainer when you know your QB would have easily still gotten the pass off. One could probably call a technical hold on an interior lineman on just about every play if you looked for it. Every big play instead of celebrating we were all bracing for the inevitable "flag on the play"...no we did not get an 18 yard scamper we are going back 5 yards...... They were killing the game I love and making it damn near unwatchable at times with the stifling amount of flags getting tossed. Then in the post season with the better officiating squads there seemed to be an unspoken rule to let the players play - sort of like hockey. I don't have numbers to back that up, but it feels like there are less flags in the post season than in the regular season and those games have a continuity and are usually easier to get into - unless it is a lopsided blowout. Well, the flip side of this theory is that the media can finally pin something to Allen's "miraculous" breakout playing QB this season other than the impossible idea that he works tirelessly to improve his craft 😈 1
mannc Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Suddenly? It's pervasive and therefore impossible to enforce in an equitable manner. Anyway....it was only a year ago: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27282277/nfl-officials-emphasize-offensive-holding-19 I’m confused. That is the opposite of what’s happening now. But I agree that enforcement of offensive holding is pretty arbitrary, but that’s nothing new. You’ve always been able to call it on pretty much every play.
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, mannc said: I’m confused. That is the opposite of what’s happening now. But I agree that enforcement of offensive holding is pretty arbitrary, but that’s nothing new. You’ve always been able to call it on pretty much every play. Yes. A year ago it was a "point of emphasis". Now, they realized how futile that was and are headed in the opposite way.
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