416BillsFan Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 I hope I don't get banned for using PFF data, but good for Daryl Williams on being their RT of the week and Levi Wallace for being CB2.
BigDingus Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 No, you can't post things like that because they assign fault to Allen for poor passes in his first 2 seasons, and that is not allowed. It was all Daboll, the O-line, WR's, McDermott & the media's lack of faith! But seriously, Allen has shown REAL growth this year. I feel like I need to emphasize this, but whether he had Diggs/Brown/Beasley or not, whether the O-line played this well or not, he himself grew substantially between seasons 2 & 3. He's doing things completely separate from those other elements that show he as a QB has improved. THAT is what is important imo. 1 1
TigerJ Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Wait. What the hell is 7 on 7 ball? I believe I recall that because Firebaugh High School was so small, they could not field a team with enough players to put 11 players on the field at the same time. Apparently similarly small schools in the same general area formed a league that played a version of football with only 7 players on the field at a time. Wikipedia reports that because a lot of team members also played baseball, the football team did not participate in "7 on 7 camps."
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, TigerJ said: I believe I recall that because Firebaugh High School was so small, they could not field a team with enough players to put 11 players on the field at the same time. Apparently similarly small schools in the same general area formed a league that played a version of football with only 7 players on the field at a time. Wikipedia reports that because a lot of team members also played baseball, the football team did not participate in "7 on 7 camps." Wait. So JA literally didn't play football until College? I mean, I know he wasn't groomed like most QBs, but that is insane.
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, 416BillsFan said: I hope I don't get banned for using PFF data, but good for Daryl Williams on being their RT of the week and Levi Wallace for being CB2. I though Williams had his worst game tbh after two very good ones
947 Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, TigerJ said: I believe I recall that because Firebaugh High School was so small, they could not field a team with enough players to put 11 players on the field at the same time. Apparently similarly small schools in the same general area formed a league that played a version of football with only 7 players on the field at a time. Wikipedia reports that because a lot of team members also played baseball, the football team did not participate in "7 on 7 camps." Allen played regular 11-on-11 football in HS, there are vids of his HS highlights on YouTube. The 7-on-7 referred to is flag football, which most skill position players do nowadays in the offseason from regular football. Surprisingly, a lot of recruiting is now done from 7-on-7 events.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.” ― Mark Twain 2 1
roboticus Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 3 hours ago, TigerJ said: Most QBs drafted highly, with the expectation that they will soon be a starter in the NFL, were already recognized as quality QBs in high school. They got recruited by big schools with highly respected football programs. Even those who don't check all of those boxes check at least some of them. Josh Allen played 7 on 7 ball in high school and went to a junior college because no four years school wanted to touch him. He had far less preparation for the pro game than just about anybody we could name. That did not make the present situation (Josh Allen making a leap in year three) inevitable, but in my thinking it makes it far less shocking than for a QB with a more typical path to the pros. In my thinking this is almost a logical next step to what has ben a unique path for an NFL QB going all the way back to the beginning. Josh's back story is what had me so intrigued at draft time, he was/is a "black swan". A prospect with gold jacket tools, who for many reasons did not benefit from the grooming process a typical top QB pick goes through. Small rural HS, no elite camps, no specialization (multi sport athlete), late bloomer physically (see facial hair). Thus the complete lack of interest from Div 1 and the resulting Juco/Wyoming path. I think this is where data driven analytics failed with him as a prospect? His development process in no way matches the typical players that generate the data. I'm no expert so maybe models try to account for that but it seems like a reasonable assumption. It all depended on the situation he landed in, but more importantly on him. I was comfortable with this regime's ability to determine if he had what it takes to turn those tools into reality on an NFL field. Luckily for us fans, it's looking like that faith is being rewarded. He is proving to everyone that his work ethic, willingness to improve, and motivation are off the charts. Add all the other intangibles he exhibits and what more can we ask for? 3
HappyDays Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 6 hours ago, DCOrange said: Re: the timeframe of getting grades out Monday when All-22 footage comes out Tuesday, they might have early access, but they also adjust their grades throughout the week so it wouldn't surprise me if the grades we see on Monday are basically preliminary grades until they get the all-22 or something like that. So why release the grades that early at all? Again it would be easier to trust their process if we had any clue how it worked. 6 hours ago, DCOrange said: Re: one of your other replies about potentially grading multiple players at once, I believe that is indeed what they do. That alone could explain some of their problems. They're trying to condense a ton of labor hours into a very short time frame which means corners will be cut somewhere. At least with Joe Buscaglia's grades for example I know he can do the necessary work because it's just one game. If PFF really has 60-70 people grading every player in every play of every game, it's not realistic to expect quality work.
Bangarang Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 As always, PFF should be taken with a massive grain of salt.
TwistofFate Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Data doesn’t lie, but when you do a poor job converting it into information, you can lie to yourself and everyone else all day long. No one lied to themselves. The data acquired over 2 years on Allen clearly pointed unfavorably. That's realism. What he has accomplished thus far is nothing short of winning the lottery. All the data clearly show the odds of winning is next to nothing, but that doesn't mean you won't win....Its just highly unlikely. That's where Allen is now...the Golden Ticket.....and I pray it stays this way.
WideNine Posted September 30, 2020 Posted September 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: “When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.” ― Mark Twain Twain - I loved that quote and often shared it with my son Me - Son you will never be wiser than me. My boy - why do you say that? Me - Because I have more years on earth and more experience than you. My son - By that rationale, I will never be wiser than you. Me - Bingo! He has gotten better at "adulting" over the years, but not quite ready to concede the race yet.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 1, 2020 Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, TwistofFate said: No one lied to themselves. The data acquired over 2 years on Allen clearly pointed unfavorably. That's realism. What he has accomplished thus far is nothing short of winning the lottery. All the data clearly show the odds of winning is next to nothing, but that doesn't mean you won't win....Its just highly unlikely. That's where Allen is now...the Golden Ticket.....and I pray it stays this way. That’s exactly what the incorrect and arrogant analysts do, they uphold their model and cite an alternate ending as a fluke improbability instead of questioning if the model is what is flawed. Maybe Josh was a late bloomer and had very little elite professional level coaching until 5-7 years later in his QB career. maybe if Tom Brady Was thrust into a starting role after his freshman year at Michigan, he would’ve takes a few more years to develop. Drew Brees was never going to amount to anything after his first 3 years either, not were Farve, Young etc. meanwhile the ‘model’ rolls out misses like Baker, Darnold, Rosen and misses Lamar. Edited October 1, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
Richard Noggin Posted October 1, 2020 Posted October 1, 2020 On 9/29/2020 at 4:01 PM, teef said: on one's on it yet? oh mykidsdad! How many years now have I been able to chuckle at this? It spans from the official team board to this one, right?
Billsfan1972 Posted October 1, 2020 Posted October 1, 2020 Again anyone know where he was ranked week three? His Rating, QBR, yards & did throw an interception were all down from week two vs Miami where he ranked behind Darnold. Oh & with what I could see the headline as expected said Lamar was not that bad. https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/qb https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-3-nfl-qb-review-patrick-mahomes-lamar-jackson-russell-wilson-aaron-rodgers
GunnerBill Posted October 1, 2020 Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, BigDingus said: But seriously, Allen has shown REAL growth this year. I feel like I need to emphasize this, but whether he had Diggs/Brown/Beasley or not, whether the O-line played this well or not, he himself grew substantially between seasons 2 & 3. He's doing things completely separate from those other elements that show he as a QB has improved. THAT is what is important imo. Agree completely with this. Is having a stud like Diggs making things easier and opening some things up? Absolutely. But this is fundamentally about the growth of Josh Allen - really since after that Cleveland game. Coming out of that game he had 20 passing touchdowns in 21 games. Since then he has 20 passing touchdown in 10 games (and really in 9 games because he threw 5 passes then walked off in week 17). Play fearless McDermott said to him after that Browns game. Fearless indeed. Edited October 1, 2020 by GunnerBill
Billsfan1972 Posted October 1, 2020 Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Agree completely with this. Is having a stud like Diggs making things easier and opening some things up? Absolutely. But this is fundamentally about the growth of Josh Allen - really since after that Cleveland game. Coming out of that game he had 20 passing touchdowns in 21 games. Since then he has 20 passing touchdown in 10 games (and really in 9 games because he threw 5 passes then walked off in week 17). Play fearless McDermott said to him after that Browns game. Fearless indeed. Play fearless...... That's a good one, how about coaching Fearless in 2019. Anyone remember that Pittsburgh game? This was the 2019 argument, which thankfully seems no longer one in 2020. I know we love Buffalo's core, but Cleveland seems to have one on par with Buffalo (and way better in 2019) and look what their "star" has produced to date.
teef Posted October 1, 2020 Posted October 1, 2020 9 hours ago, Richard Noggin said: How many years now have I been able to chuckle at this? It spans from the official team board to this one, right? it sure does. it's the small things in life...ya know?
Stank_Nasty Posted October 1, 2020 Posted October 1, 2020 I try not to get too high or too low on PFF anymore. I used to let them get to me but i've just decided to not let it happen anymore. That being said, this is their week 3 in review and its very clear they are doing quite the 180 on Allen. It looks like even his most bull headed detractors are being forced to tuck tail as long as he consistently keeps playing at a ridiculous level. Are there some backhanded comments? Sure. But as a general rule this is a nice little review of Allen here.... starts at 26:50 mark.
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