Bills and Nickel Defense

[JPicc2114]

I watched quite of the game vs the Rams over again, and I noticed that the defense was in 2 LB sets for a large majority of the game. Taron Johnson got blown up on run plays. Yet the Bills continued to stay with the nickel package. With all the dump downs the Raiders like to do, I would assume that you would see more 3 LB sets. I am predicting the Bills put up a more stout effort on defense this week

Edited September 29, 2020 by JPicc2114

[NewEra]

They ran out of a lot of 3 WR sets.  They would block the LBs and leave Taron open to go 1 on 1 with the RB.  Great concept. It worked.  If we have a Lb out there in those in those situations, expect them to target that LB through the air.  Catch 22. 

[Lagoon Blues]

I heard Chris Simms break that down pretty well saying McVay kind of exposed McDermott and then said I am sure that pissed him off.  Going to be interesting how that develops on both ends.  How our D adjusts and how others try the same approach.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Lagoon Blues

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

They ran out of a lot of 3 WR sets.  They would block the LBs and leave Taron open to go 1 on 1 with the RB.  Great concept. It worked.  If we have a Lb out there in those in those situations, expect them to target that LB through the air.  Catch 22. 

too light for that work ?
Marlowe??

[Big Turk]

16 minutes ago, JPicc2114 said:

I watched quite of the game vs the Rams over again, and I noticed that the defense was in 2 LB sets for a large majority of the game. Taron Johnson got blown up on run plays. Yet the Bills continued to stay with the nickel package. With all the dump downs the Raiders like to do, I would assume that you would see more 3 LB sets. I am predicting the Bills put up a more stout effort on defense this week

 

This is an excellent piece for a few reasons...one they talk about how Josh Allen is turning into an elite QB, but then they also started talking about what the Rams were doing when they ran the ball and committed to it in the 2nd half...basically said that the Rams were running the ball right at the 7th defender the Bills were putting in the box, which was Taron Johnson most of the time since they were in the nickel, and said that it was done intentionally and that the Bills are going to need to adjust to it. Wherever Johnson was lining up, that was where the Rams were running it, directly at him, which I believe is why you saw the Bills try and use Marlowe in the slot for a while to try and give them a little bit of a bigger body for that...but then Marlowe was taken advantage of in the passing game.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by matter2003

[JohnNord]

4 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said:

I heard Chris Simms break that down pretty well saying McVay kind of exposed McDermitt and then said I am sure that pissed him off.  Going to be interesting how that develops on both ends.  How our D adjusts and how others try the same approach.

Exposed how?  It seems like the Rams took advantage of a bigger OL and fo the second level faster

[Lagoon Blues]

more of how NewEra and matter2003 put it ..... They would block the LBs and leave Taron open to go 1 on 1 with the RB

I will see if i can find the link to the Chris Simms breakdown for reference.  Meaning we are in nickel a lot and it is a match up weakness when the bigger back takes on the smaller DB.

 

Here is the Chris Simms game breakdown.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Lagoon Blues

[Rocky Landing]

If the RB is consistently getting tackled in the secondary, then the D-line is failing to stop the run. The Rams O-line owned our D-line on run plays. Henderson had massive holes to run through all day long. 

 

I also think the reliance on nickel defense has a lot to do with our lack of depth at LB. Klein was sold as a "run stuffer," but has that been the case so far?

[IgotBILLStopay]

17 minutes ago, JPicc2114 said:

I watched quite of the game vs the Rams over again, and I noticed that the defense was in 2 LB sets for a large majority of the game. Taron Johnson got blown up on run plays. Yet the Bills continued to stay with the nickel package. With all the dump downs the Raiders like to do, I would assume that you would see more 3 LB sets. I am predicting the Bills put up a more stout effort on defense this week

Yes the Rams came out of the locker room and attacked the 4-2-5 defensive scheme. A guy like Keuchly knows when to attack and when to cover but quite often Edmunds was wrongfooted. And Taron Johnson as the 5th back was stretched thin. Ideally we need a safety / LB hybrid like a Jabrill Peppers to go with a 4-2-4 alignment. Since we don’t have that, we will likely settle for the front four rushing a bit less and maintaining gap integrity, Edmunds having only coverage responsibility and someone else (Dodson?) will be a spy on the Henderson / Woods type rusher.

[JPicc2114]

I think we need to see Dotson on the field more vs the Raiders IMO

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Yes the Rams came out of the locker room and attacked the 4-2-5 defensive scheme. A guy like Keuchly knows when to attack and when to cover but quite often Edmunds was wrongfooted. And Taron Johnson as the 5th back was stretched thin. Ideally we need a safety / LB hybrid like a Jabrill Peppers to go with a 4-2-4 alignment. Since we don’t have that, we will likely settle for the front four rushing a bit less and maintaining gap integrity, Edmunds having only coverage responsibility and someone else (Dodson?) will be a spy on the Henderson / Woods type rusher.

 

We have Neal and Marlowe for the Big Nickel but Marlowe was being taken advantage of in coverage so they had to pick their poison...

Edited September 29, 2020 by matter2003

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

too light for that work ?
Marlowe??

I was REALLY hoping Neal could’ve turned into that big nickel.  Doesn’t seem like he’s playing at all.  Maybe he’s our secret weapon and we’re saving him for the 2nd half of the year?  Sarcasm, but really, I thought he would take another step this year and be a solid contributor in coverage and vs the run. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They ran out of a lot of 3 WR sets.  They would block the LBs and leave Taron open to go 1 on 1 with the RB.  Great concept. It worked.  If we have a Lb out there in those in those situations, expect them to target that LB through the air.  Catch 22. 

Makes sense with what Eric Wood was saying that even when they subbed in Marlowe, the Rams targeted him as the Sam and stuck a OL on him.

 

Great game plan for the Rams, Shame we didn’t seem to make an adjustment to the adjustment other than Allen going full on Allen Mode

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

We have Neal and Marlowe for the Big Nickel but Marlowe was being taken advantage of in coverage so they had to pick their poison...

Marlowe has been meh so far. What’s the word on Neal?  I’ve heard literally NOTHiNG about the guy.  Disappointing

[TheyCallMeAndy]

28 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said:

I heard Chris Simms break that down pretty well saying McVay kind of exposed McDermitt and then said I am sure that pissed him off.  Going to be interesting how that develops on both ends.  How our D adjusts and how others try the same approach.

Wonder if Josh Norman will replace Tarron Johnson, not Levi Wallace.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I was REALLY hoping Neal could’ve turned into that big nickel.  Doesn’t seem like he’s playing at all.  Maybe he’s our secret weapon and we’re saving him for the 2nd half of the year?  Sarcasm, but really, I thought he would take another step this year and be a solid contributor in coverage and vs the run. 

Yeah I feel like Neal has flashed as a playmaker in the past. 

[Back2Buff]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I was REALLY hoping Neal could’ve turned into that big nickel.  Doesn’t seem like he’s playing at all.  Maybe he’s our secret weapon and we’re saving him for the 2nd half of the year?  Sarcasm, but really, I thought he would take another step this year and be a solid contributor in coverage and vs the run. 

 

The guy was a force in Houston and can't see the field this year. 

 

This coaching staff makes no sense with their defensive scheme.

 

How about having your safeties actually cover someone so you can put another LB on field.  Dobson would be really nice to have out there.  He can cover too.

[thenorthremembers]

Better get used to the Nickel because it is essentially McDermott's base defense.   What they dont have, and havent had since he has been here is a unique enough athlete to play the "big nickel" everyone talks about.  Jeremy Chinn or Kyle Dugger would have filled that role well.  Whats odd to me is they know they have to run nickel, most teams have to because it's incredibly unusual for modern teams to run an offense with just two wideouts, but still our depth at both cornerback and safety is bad, and its not like its been good since McBeane has been here.

 

I guess they know that the name of the game is scoring points not playing defense.

[Rocky Landing]

38 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I was REALLY hoping Neal could’ve turned into that big nickel.  Doesn’t seem like he’s playing at all.  Maybe he’s our secret weapon and we’re saving him for the 2nd half of the year?  Sarcasm, but really, I thought he would take another step this year and be a solid contributor in coverage and vs the run. 

I felt the same way about Neal. He seems like a beast, and plays with intensity. I was also intrigued that they switched his designation from safety to CB this season-- I interpreted that as an indication that he would see time as nickel CB, a role he filled last season when Taron Johnson went down. 

 

It does seem to me that Johnson has been playing well this season. I know a fair amount of fans have lamented Johnson missing some tackles on Henderson in the Rams game. I have a hard time faulting him too much for those tackles, as Henderson was afforded an enormous door into the secondary on far too many plays. If the secondary are making so many tackles on the RB, the problem is not with the secondary.

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Better get used to the Nickel because it is essentially McDermott's base defense.   What they dont have, and havent had since he has been here is a unique enough athlete to play the "big nickel" everyone talks about.  Jeremy Chinn or Kyle Dugger would have filled that role well.  Whats odd to me is they know they have to run nickel, most teams have to because it's incredibly unusual for modern teams to run an offense with just two wideouts, but still our depth at both cornerback and safety is bad, and its not like its been good since McBeane has been here.

 

I guess they know that the name of the game is scoring points not playing defense.

 

The Nickel has been the NFL's base defense for several years.  Last year teams lined up in Nickel 56% of the time and their "base" defense only 27% of the time.

 

Playing defense is as important as its ever been because you still have to score more points than the opponent so you have to slow/stop the other team's scoring.  Apparently McD thought the Nickel was the best way to slow the Rams down.  So convinced that he played Nickel pretty much every play which was a surprise.   

 

But you're right.  We didn't have the personnel to make it work.   A couple years ago we had the lowest paid roster in the NFL and arguably the least talented.  Phase 1 of Beane's rebuilding plan was to get the right coach in place and fix the salary cap.   That's been done.  Now he's going to continue to build/fine tune the roster.  The rebuild isn't yet complete.

 

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/defensive-personnel-analysis-2019