Moderation Point System Discussion

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

You really think people who get a 1 year ban come back at all? 

 

I think they sometimes come back in about 15 minutes (with a new account and new newbie restrictions) in which case one of two things happens:

1) they got a clue that what they were doing wasn't allowed here and settle down to contribute which is fine.  No harm, no foul

2) they go right back at it with whatever they were doing before, in which case the porthole opens and out they go again

 

But FTR I have never intentionally banned someone for a year.  It's usually 3 days, a week, a month, So Long and Thanks for All the Fish.

[Foxx]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

Hey everyone... 3-0!!! How 'bout them Bills??? Let's keep it going.... 👊

 

I'd like to ask for constructive input on community moderation. Our software has a ton of features that we have never used and it may be time to provide some structure. I'm hoping that provides a more methodical and more informed way to keep this train chugging along in a smooth way. FYI, off-topic/"funny"/inappropriate posts will be deleted. Here is what I want to know:

 

1. We have several default areas of concern: Politics, COVID-19, Inappropriate Language, Abusive Behavior, Inappropriate Avatar, Topic Bumping. Are there any other typical bad posts that fall into a category I am missing?

 

2. Each of those categories have default point values from 0-5. What do you think they should be?

 

3. What should happen to a member if they rack up X number of points? (Each time that get a point - the user is warned.) This can range from being able to read and not post to removing all access to the community.

 

4. Should points expire? If so, how long should they remain?

 

5. Should there be an appeals process (post restriction/banning) and what would this look like?

 

This is just feedback. We may disagree on what you say. Your feedback may not be feasible either. regardless, thoughtful replies are appreciated.

 

Thanks.

not that my opinion matters but...

 

point values should depend on the moral values of the board, what kind of face is desired to be presented and what would be a required total for disciplinary measures (bans).

 

outside of certain transgressions, yes, points should expire.

 

 

as hard as it is to institute across the board, the strive to eliminate arbitrariness of misconduct should be one of the top priorities. uniformity is key to being fair.

 

any and all decisions... keep it professional... business not personal.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Foxx

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Hey everyone... 3-0!!! How 'bout them Bills??? Let's keep it going.... 👊

 

I'd like to ask for constructive input on community moderation. Our software has a ton of features that we have never used and it may be time to provide some structure. I'm hoping that provides a more methodical and more informed way to keep this train chugging along in a smooth way. FYI, off-topic/"funny"/inappropriate posts will be deleted. Here is what I want to know:

 

1. We have several default areas of concern: Politics, COVID-19, Inappropriate Language, Abusive Behavior, Inappropriate Avatar, Topic Bumping. Are there any other typical bad posts that fall into a category I am missing?  I would add agenda/crusading as a big one. Trolling/ starting multiple threads with little to no follow-up

 

2. Each of those categories have default point values from 0-5. What do you think they should be?   I would do politics/COVID/bumping/ crusade/ others as 1 point, inappropriate language/avatar as 2 points, and abusive behavior 5 points

 

3. What should happen to a member if they rack up X number of points? (Each time that get a point - the user is warned.) This can range from being able to read and not post to removing all access to the community.  I would say you get a week time-out at every 5 points and if you go nuts and hit 15 (or 2 abusive behavior) you get a minimum 1 month with potential banning if the behavior is bad enough.

 

4. Should points expire? If so, how long should they remain?  Points should expire - I would say maybe 1 point each month or so.

 

5. Should there be an appeals process (post restriction/banning) and what would this look like?  I think if you are giving warnings about behavior and someone is racking up points - then there should be no appeal.  If it is a long time member that maybe goes crazy because of a topic and you want the Mod to have a discussion that is fine, but if someone is consistently spewing politics and crusading in thread after thread (even if they have been here forever) the points are the warning - they should not be able to appeal - they were warned and have to face the consequences.

 

This is just feedback. We may disagree on what you say. Your feedback may not be feasible either. regardless, thoughtful replies are appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

I think it is a great idea and could help - just don’t want to overburden the Mods.

 

I would really like to see some rules around new thread starts as was discussed previously.  There are a few people that have almost no post counts that come in and start 2-3 or even 4 threads - post the initial and then fade away for 24 hours.  They typically seem to be posters using a different log in and then fade away and hit it again.  These are tough, but maybe the points can help, but it gets frustrating with some of these posts just trolling people and there is enough activity and people doing the “IN” posts that all just clutter the site.

 

I appreciate your guys time and think the Mods do a great job.  It is not easy.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Hey everyone... 3-0!!! How 'bout them Bills??? Let's keep it going.... 👊

 

I'd like to ask for constructive input on community moderation. Our software has a ton of features that we have never used and it may be time to provide some structure. I'm hoping that provides a more methodical and more informed way to keep this train chugging along in a smooth way. FYI, off-topic/"funny"/inappropriate posts will be deleted. Here is what I want to know:

 

1. We have several default areas of concern: Politics, COVID-19, Inappropriate Language, Abusive Behavior, Inappropriate Avatar, Topic Bumping. Are there any other typical bad posts that fall into a category I am missing?  Answer:  I think that covers most of it.  I think politics and COVID-19 are by far the two most troubling, from the aspect of taking away from football discussion.  

 

2. Each of those categories have default point values from 0-5. What do you think they should be?  I would give politics and COVID-19 1 point each, and the rest 0.5 points if possible.  If not, I'd give them all 1.  

 

3. What should happen to a member if they rack up X number of points? (Each time that get a point - the user is warned.) This can range from being able to read and not post to removing all access to the community.  I think after 1 point, you go into "read only" for 2 hours, after 2, it's read only for 24 hours, after 3, read-only for a week, after 4, a month of read only, and after 5, month suspension.  

 

4. Should points expire? If so, how long should they remain?  I would remove 1 point every 2 weeks or 1 point a month.  

 

5. Should there be an appeals process (post restriction/banning) and what would this look like?  Yes, I'd have an appeals process.  To some extent these are all subjective.  What might be political or abusive to someone might not be to another person.  It should be a "reasonable person" standard. I think the appeal process should be that someone who is awarded a point can appeal by contacting some sort of "board" of admins or other members that would vote on whether the conduct warrants the point.  

 

This is just feedback. We may disagree on what you say. Your feedback may not be feasible either. regardless, thoughtful replies are appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

hi @SDS  First, it's cool that you are seeking the board's input on this.  I'll put my thoughts next to your questions above.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

But FTR I have never intentionally banned someone for a year.  It's usually 3 days, a week, a month, So Long and Thanks for All the Fish.

 

❤️ xoxoxo

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Joe in Winslow

[stevewin]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    For me, the thing that bugs me is the personal, back and forth bickering across pages and pages of a thread.
     You can disagree vehemently about a subject without it turning into a name calling catfight.

     I agree with a three strikes and a defined period of lockout ( 2 weeks) without the ability to interact. You could then add another level of “ If banned three times Your out for a much longer period”.

     Simpler seems better.

Thanks for the great job you guys do providing this site💪

     

I agree - two people going back and forth like children in a thread is one of the things most bothersome to me and usually is one of the main things that takes threads off the rails (and is an obvious thing to recognize) - and this is also usually a natural extension of the politics/covid/abuse etc categories

 

I am different than most - extra threads don't bother me to the extent it seems to bother most in the community.  I just ignore ones I know are dumb.  If someone is clogging up the main page starting tons of threads at once it's an obvious problem, but if people treated the occasional stupid/unnecessary thread like trolls should be treated in a thread - and just ignore them - most of the time they will just fall away.  Posting "Why did you post this!" in a dumb thread just keeps it alive on the main page longer.  Behavior that ruins discussion in a legitimate thread has a larger negative impact on my experience that someone starting a thread I can just ignore.

 

Slightly off topic, but related to the sensitivity most seem to have about number of threads:  one of my peeves is threads that are kept open for pages and pages and days/weeks when the topic has morphed and a new thread is appropriate.  Example "Bills may sign Player X" - then there may be 50 pages on speculation about signing Player X - then when Player X is signed, don't continue the conversation in the "Bills may sign Player X" thread (even if you change the title) - just start a new thread "Bills sign Player X" .  I hate when a story evolves with new significant developments (which essentially changes the story) and you have to go slogging through 100 pages of a thread that was kept open forever as some kind of catch-all to try to figure out where the discussion related to the new major developments occur.  I know this is small potatoes compared to some of the larger issues - but just something related to thread/topic starting.

 

Requisite thanks to those who run and moderate the board - as others have mentioned I realize this a thankless task, and that the qualty of the board that we so often take for granted does not come without a lot of active effort/policing by volunteers (that often times we may not even be aware is happening)

[fansince88]

@SDS I guess I would have to ask is there a certian parameter now that once a poster gets x amount of warning points they get a temporary or permanent ban? To follow that up is it in the control of a mod or yourself where a poster is deemed uncontrollable where he or she needs to be removed reguardlessof point total? I currently have a point but have no clue if there is a "guideline" to move forward with discipline.  

As far as your list

1) Abusive behavior should not be and as far as I have seen not tolerated at all.

2)I trust the process. Wink wink. What ever the team decides is fine with me. I find TBD to be mostly a safe place. 

 As far as expiring points not a bad idea. I for one like to keep my record clean and I feel it was tarnished due to a misunderstanding.  I did discuss it with the mod thst issued the point and they explained my transgression and although I disagree still with that earning a point I fully understand their reason for awarding it. As far as deletion of posts would it be terribly hard for an automatic messge saying post deleted because, followed by one of the violations listed. Not sure if there is a function for that but that may help posters realize their error more so before they push the envelope.

Edited September 29, 2020 by fansince88

[_Underscore_]

SDS:  I’m a large fan of the site.  I post (very) rarely but read every day and have for years.  By and large you and your team are doing a great job.  Here are a few thoughts for what it’s worth:

 

#2. Politics – 5 or higher:  None of your categories have the tendency to poison the entire community like this one.  Nothing is gained by discussing politics here – no minds are changed, nothing is learned, and it interferes with the primary purpose (and the fun) of the site.  There are other places for politics for those who want to partake (as well as PPP) – it should not be here.

 

Abusive/Inappropriate behavior seems to already be reasonably moderated  I do enjoy that this is kept a little more civil and cultured than other team forums (good Lord, look at the Jets forum sometime.  Yikes!).  Within reason, this is more of a "give a warning or two and if it's persistent, then take action" thing.

 

#4. Should points expire?  Points should expire at the pro bowl.  If you make a fool of yourself in the offseason, you risk posting through the season and into the playoffs.  As the year goes on, the malcontents become fewer and farther in between.  One year might sound long to some, but it should not be that hard for adults to respect the rules so that the moderators don't need to be full time babysitters (and subsequently become bitter about something  for which they volunteer).

 

#5. Should there be an appeals process?

On bans only.  Your mods are the judges.  You are the appeals court.  Have the offender send a paragraph or two (if they care to).  Have your mod send a paragraph or two (if they care to).  Then you be the judge.

 

Thanks for asking, and thanks again to you and your moderators for a great site. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by _Underscore_

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

I've been slapped on the wrist a couple of times by Hap. Once a couple of years ago and once in 2019. I feel like I've been a quality citizen since and have earned the removal of my ankle monitor. 

 

My apologies, it was 3 times. Twice in 2018 and once in 2019. A model of impeccable character ever since. 

 

...LMAO...how many orange jumpsuits are in your closet??.......BTW, FIFY........"yet quite the character ever since"...

[Rubes]

One question about points expiring...how easy is it to keep track of things like [date of first points received] and [date of last points received]? If you can track that, then having them expire after X number of days since the last points received (I suggest 30 or 45) would be fine.

 

I like the idea of a point system because it imposes a measure of consistency across different people, so some folks don't feel like they are being treated differently by different mods. I agree with others that the most points should be given for Abusive behavior (5), then Politics (3). Are you able to give points for both, such as when someone bring politics into a discussion in an abusive way?

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Rubes

[4_kidd_4]

I think this board is run quite well, as is.

 

I’ve mentioned before it feels like a well officiated hockey game, as in some of small stuff is generally let go, there’s a lot of “self policing”, and the more obvious fouls are dealt with appropriately.  

 

Granted, I don’t know the volume or scope of issues the mods/owners deal with behind the scenes.

 

Personally, I’ve been on message boards since the way back IRC days, and my personal rule has always been that I would never post something that I wouldn’t say to someone’s face. That goes with the point of “act like an adult and you won’t need a babysitter”, but I also know the world(& message boards) don’t work that way.

 

Thanks for keeping the peace mods, this is a great board and would hate to see it diminished by over moderation, but I understand that there must be balance.

[HardyBoy]

Can we add posts like "this topic is already being discussed in a different thread" to the point worthy list?

 

Especially in threads that spin out of a broad general conversation and have say four pager potential? 

 

Just a total hypothetical...let's say there is a thread about Josh Allen's mechanics and someone starts a thread talking about the new things Daboll is able to add to the offense now that JA has improved his mechanics. The second thread might have spun out of, or even been inspired by the first thread, but talking about Daboll's offense at length in the mechanics thread would be off topic for that thread. Also, the two threads likely would interest different segments of the board and increase engagement (especially if the other thread has 20+ pages).

 

The mods are actually pretty good about either letting the thread stand alone if it is a solid standalone thread, or if it is a bit redundant, but a lot of people are engaging that weren't in the 20+ page thread they'll let the convo go a bit and then merge when it slows down to give people a chance that weren't around for the start of the other thread to chat together.

 

The people posting that the convo is already happening elsewhere, when it clearly isn't a duplicate thread is super annoying. Report it is you feel the need, and let the mods make a decision on if it should merge.

[todd]

I think the mods do a pretty darn good job of herding the cats already. I think the question would best be asked of them regarding the technology making things easier on their side.

One poster mentioned crusades. If there was another issue with that I think that is a good one to get some help with.

[SDS]

8 minutes ago, Rubes said:

One question about points expiring...how easy is it to keep track of things like [date of first points received] and [date of last points received]? If you can track that, then having them expire after X number of days since the last points received (I suggest 30 or 45) would be fine.

 

 

This is the only way it works actually. Points expire in X. I just have to turn it on and define X.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

An easy 5 point system 1 point per infraction. Abusive behavior is a automatic 5 points and banned for a year. Every month a point can be removed with good behavior. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

10 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

This is the only way it works actually. Points expire in X. I just have to turn it on and define X.

 

It'd be nice.

 

I think three months is a fair window.

 

I still have points from 2006.

 

 

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Kwai San said:

1 - pretty much have them all

2 - assign 1 point each BUT let the poster know they are getting dinged

3 - 5 points in less than a month a one week break and it keeps going. 

4 - If you can go 2 months with no points one gets deducted.  Something like that....gotta keep it simple tho you guys have enough work.

5 - Let em appeal - you guys are the mods you decide, their past and more importantly their future will determine their ability to stay on the board

 

Bottom line make up what you like - roll it out AND enforce it.  I would go out a limb and say 95% of us here would support it.

 

All infractions are not created equal. Rolling thru a stop sign is not the same as doing 60 mph in a school zone. I think the more egregious violations should get the more severe punishment. I also think they should roll off at some point, maybe 12 months. If you can behave, you should get your record cleared. 

 

I’d like to see some appeals process, partly because I thought the only warning I ever got was nonsensical (I was saying exactly what the former mod was saying!), but I’m afraid that might be overly burdensome. EVERYBODY would appeal EVERYTHING instead of just taking their medicine. However, I have also posted perfectly innocent stuff which was misunderstood. A complaint was raised. Rather than ding me, the Mod shot a PM, I realized how it was misunderstood and revised my wording. The system worked there. 

 

I trust the Mods to use common sense and exercise good judgement. I can’t say that for some of the posters. I wouldn’t want to feel I was being “regulated” by some of the folks here. I’m afraid giving posters the power to ding each other could get “personal”. It should never get personal. IMO. Nothing personal to anyone in particular, but Mods are selected for a reason.  They can mostly remain objective. Everyone should retain the ability to “report” and let the Mods decide.

 

In general, I think the Mods do a great job and it’s a great forum as is. Bravo if you can find a way to improve things. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Augie

[Dablitzkrieg]

I think it is more than fair here, outside of the never expiring points.  That seems a bit harsh.

[BuffBillsForLife]

A point system with the points (slowly) decaying over time is the best system imo.  Politics and corona discussion deserve whatever the maximum number of points is; this is a football message board, I highly doubt anyone comes here to talk about corona when they're inundated with it in the rest of their lives.

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I think it is more than fair here, outside of the never expiring points.  That seems a bit harsh.

 

But for what it is worth, no actions were taken on point total.