The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[bobobonators]

Lamar certainly didnt play great last night. As a Bills fan i saw 2 huge problems with the ravens:

 

1. Oline - wow they were bad. That center was a disaster. 
2. Roman adjusted too late. They started moving the ball more when they started the short passing game. But things had already started snowballing. 
 

They need a new center and a new OC. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

23 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How do we know they're the worst?   Seems like a chicken or egg argument.

 

I think they are pretty bad. I mean Dez Bryant gets meaningful snaps. Not quite as bad a unit as Allen's 2018 supporting cast but they are definitely near the bottom this year if not at the bottom.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Lamar has the worst WRs in the league.  He has an offensive line that has no clue how to pass block (or an OC scheme that does a really good job of teaching them to pass block).

 

im not saying Lamar will ever be a great passer.  I do think that, given proper weapons and system, that he can b win in this league due to his otherworldly ability to run

Yeah, ask Eli Manning, Trent dilfer, Doug Williams, Brad johnson....I could go on.  Those guys were average passers and couldn’t run...yet won Super Bowls.

 

It might take the perfect storm to get Lamar a title, but throwing the ball to brown, Snead and Boykin is similar to Josh throwing the ball to Foster, Zay and KB.  Bums

 

Where does this narrative come from that they can't pass block?  Lamar's time to throw is 2.98 secs.  He had quite a bit of time against us on a lot of plays yesterday.  On the sacks he held the ball because he couldnt read the field or no one was open.  Thats not on his oline.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Penfield45 said:

Has he been given the chance ? 
 

Seems like he needs a coach to help him develop his pass game. 

 

Maybe. But they wasted three seasons in the meantime. He doesn't seem to be able to figure out what he's seeing defensively. Allen didn't either but they were able to teach him.

[BillsFan4]

Total class act!

 

Lamar seems like a great guy.

[Dukestreetking]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Others see a QB who is under average out of the pocket and can't make great reads.  He is plenty elusive and often makes great plays when coverage breaks down.  All qb's will hit some throws and those will be the one's his "backers" will point to.

This.

 

Can't remember where I commented earlier, but I reviewed alot of this season's LJ tape (not A22).

 

Amateur conclusions: he is god awful at read progression, and rarely (never!?) looks off a DB.

 

He is an exceptional RO qb, if you're into that kind of thing.

[GunnerBill]

I wouldn't fire Roman. I still think his offense is the best fit for Lamar. I think he could look terrible in a full west coast timing style scheme or a spread where he is asked to identify mismatches and read the field.

[Man with No Name]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Total class act!

 

Lamar seems like a great guy.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

 

can't hate a guy like that. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I wouldn't fire Roman. I still think his offense is the best fit for Lamar. I think he could look terrible in a full west coast timing style scheme or a spread where he is asked to identify mismatches and read the field.

interesting to hear steve smith’s views. He basically said a big problem is the types of routes that Roman has the WR’s run— called it simple elementary school stuff, which DB’s easily can defend. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Man with No Name said:

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

 

can't hate a guy like that. 

 

Yeah, dammit.  I'm going to have to donate to his charity now.

[Meatloaf63]

12 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, I'll take the win - as Josh said, there's no style points in the playoffs - but I don't think this game tells us a whole lot about offensive football theory in general.

The Ravens lost because of one horrid snap and one really good defensive play by Taron Johnson. OK, you can pin part of that one on Lamar, but it was still really well done by Taron.

These are two really good football teams, and very often a play or two will be the difference. Just like it was tonight.

Your forgetting we were two plays from 14 more points. This game was not any closer than it ended up.

[PrimeTime101]

Here's the question that needs to be answered... The same question the first and second year of Josh Allen. IF you put Lamar Jackson behind our offensive line with our weapons how would he do?

 

Lamar earned MVP last year.. I respect his talents. Is it sustainable through the playoffs with better targets and better O'line. That book has not been written yet and Until it is.. I would not write Lamar off yet. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

interesting to hear steve smith’s views. He basically said a big problem is the types of routes that Roman has the WR’s run— called it simple elementary school stuff, which DB’s easily can defend. 

 

Yea it has always been the case with his scheme. A highly complex run game but a very basic passing scheme. 

[The Frankish Reich]

18 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

This.

 

Can't remember where I commented earlier, but I reviewed alot of this season's LJ tape (not A22).

 

Amateur conclusions: he is god awful at read progression, and rarely (never!?) looks off a DB.

 

He is an exceptional RO qb, if you're into that kind of thing.

I think we said the same things about Josh Allen before this season. Not saying that Lamar can make the same jump (really, what other young QBs have in recent memory? They either seem to have it right from the start like Justin Herbert or Patrick Mahomes or they never get it, like EJ Manuel), but starting over with a new OC may be the first step.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I thought Lamars backup played better than he did.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I thought Lamars backup played better than he did.

Strangely enough, with the same WR and OL.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Just "play decent" is what you want out of Allen. Given his improvement since his first start and his track record I find it hard to believe he won't at least play at a decent level. Even looking at the full seasons, the press can see the dramatic improvement in Allen. I like to break it down by half seasons because when you do that you can see that it's not as shocking that Allen made the massive leap he did this year from year 2 to 3. Heading into this season their was legitimate talk about whether Allen's 2019 season was a fluke and if his third season would be similar to Mitch Turbitzky. People thought he could be like Turbitzky or Bortles. I don't think we are worried about him regressing back to those levels. He's at minimum decent. 

 

Allen has all the skills and talent and then some of say an Aaron Rodgers who just put up a 121 passer rating season. The only thing Aaron has on Allen currently is experience. But Allen is gaining experience with every passing minute. It feels like it is only a matter of time before it truly all comes together for him and puts up a similar season to the one Rodgers just had.  Rodgers was in his 4th season starting and 7th season overall when he broke out with his NFL record 122 passer rating season.

 

First off the posts and comments weren't about what "I want out of Allen"  It's about what is needed to get sports writers, TV shows, etc to say Allen is an elite QB.  That was my point.  The fact that you like to break things down into half seasons is fine too for you, but your take on it isn't going to stop the talking heads from saying what they are saying.  What they say certainly doesn't matter anymore than your take and likely you may even have more data than they do to back it up, but again the point of the thread or at least a subset of the posts was about how unfair Allen is judged.  My comments were what IMO needs to happen to stop the bad press.

 

Playing "decent" would go toward showing this season wasn't a fluke and has nothing to do with what I want out of Allen.

[LABILLBACKER]

Lamar is ridiculously athletic but he'll never be an elite long term qb. Yes he won an mvp and put up great numbers that season. But just because you can run doesn't mean you should run. Steve Young learned the value of being a really good pocket passer. He only used his legs when he had to. Lamar's whole game is his legs. And the likelyhood of him avoiding injury or developing as an elite pocket passer is low.

[wjag]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Sort of like what I said about Allen, when the Offense had minimal weapons and a coach wanting 20-17 games predicated on defense (yes it worked yesterday).

 

The difference is, everyone knows Jackson's athleticism and really only his most ardent supporters defend his passing.

 

There are just so few plays Jackson makes as a traditional QB (i.e. drop back and hit a receiver in a tight window).  

 

I saw that made for TV QB challenge and Jackson was just awful.

 

 

Woof.  That was really bad. Epically bad.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

17 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

First off the posts and comments weren't about what "I want out of Allen"  It's about what is needed to get sports writers, TV shows, etc to say Allen is an elite QB.  That was my point.  The fact that you like to break things down into half seasons is fine too for you, but your take on it isn't going to stop the talking heads from saying what they are saying.  What they say certainly doesn't matter anymore than your take and likely you may even have more data than they do to back it up, but again the point of the thread or at least a subset of the posts was about how unfair Allen is judged.  My comments were what IMO needs to happen to stop the bad press.

 

Playing "decent" would go toward showing this season wasn't a fluke and has nothing to do with what I want out of Allen.

 

Fair. Enough. Just making sure you everyone realizes it's a near certainty that this year was not a fluke and that Allen's floor is likely a notch or two above decent play.