BillsToast Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 39 minutes ago, NewEra said: And you also can’t compare Lamar Jackson to any other running qb not named Michael Vick. Not one of them could run like them. They are on another level as a runner. Agreed that Lamar is a better runner and on another level, but all runners have short shelf lives, especially thinner guys. Even Vick wasn't as great of a runner when he returned. Stamina, speed, and being worn down is a reality you can't avoid with age. My point is he's generational in what he's able to do, but the human body can take only so much punishment unless you are equated his athleticism to bodily integrity. He won't be able to do what he's doing at 30 sustainably. No one has and no one could.
NewEra Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Penfield45 said: This has to be the dumbest thread ever created in this forum someone plz delete this garbage BWHAHAHAHAHAHA
Jpsredemption Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 This will be a real joke Saturday night when Jackson torches us.
NewEra Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, BillsToast said: Agreed that Lamar is a better runner and on another level, but all runners have short shelf lives, especially thinner guys. Even Vick wasn't as great of a runner when he returned. Stamina, speed, and being worn down is a reality you can't avoid with age. My point is he's generational in what he's able to do, but the human body can take only so much punishment unless you are equated his athleticism to bodily integrity. He won't be able to do what he's doing at 30 sustainably. No one has and no one could. who like I asked before: WHO? Which running QBs are you talking about other than RG3? Tyrod? Who??
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Penfield45 said: This has to be the dumbest thread ever created in this forum someone plz delete this garbage TBH. No one is forcing you to read it.
downunderbill Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said: This will be a real joke Saturday night when Jackson torches us. Always so positive.
Pokebball Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Quarterbacks get injured in the pocket more than they do running. Don't they slide 99% of the time when they run? 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: It's made a lot of people look really bad... it serves its purpose IMO too often QBs get too much credit for success. look at Tua. The Fins almost made the playoffs BUT it was because of Fitz and not Tua. Yet people are crediting him and not Fitz. Trent Dilfer won a super bowl YET he’s not an elite HOF caliber QB. He had a good team with him.
BillsToast Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, NewEra said: who like I asked before: WHO? Which running QBs are you talking about other than RG3? Tyrod? Who?? All of them: Vick, Cunningham, Kaep, Young and every other name. Name me one that lasted long as a runner. Name me a RB who last 8 years over 1,000 yards and you'll find only a handful and he's not built like Emmitt or Barry. If RBs struggle to do it, and only a few have and that's their only job, I highly doubt a more slender QB can last. He already has worse stats than last year in every category.
NewEra Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BillsToast said: All of them: Vick, Cunningham, Kaep, Young and every other name. Name me one that lasted long as a runner. Name me a RB who last 8 years over 1,000 yards and you'll find only a handful and he's not built like Emmitt or Barry. If RBs struggle to do it, and only a few have and that's their only job, I highly doubt a more slender QB can last. He already has worse stats than last year in every category. There you go https://sportsfinda.com/top-10-running-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/ Most running QBs don’t last because they suck. The good running QBs last because they’re good Kaep didn’t last because he sucked young didnt last because he sucked Cunningham played like 15+ years and had his best season in his 13th year Edited January 13, 2021 by NewEra
Scott7975 Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: It's made a lot of people look really bad... Everyone on this forum has looked "bad" for their takes at some point. You included.
Doc Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 42 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said: This will be a real joke Saturday night when Jackson torches us. Like last year?
Scott7975 Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 52 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said: This will be a real joke Saturday night when Jackson torches us. Torches us with what? 1
BillsToast Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 32 minutes ago, NewEra said: There you go https://sportsfinda.com/top-10-running-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/ Most running QBs don’t last because they suck. The good running QBs last because they’re good Kaep didn’t last because he sucked young didnt last because he sucked Cunningham played like 15+ years and had his best season in his 13th year Correct a handful out of decades only a few, thank you for making my point. Steve Young didn't suck, although I think you thought I was referring to Vince Young so no biggie. Cunningham played best when he didn't run much. What's "best" from Cunningham to Vick was when they couldn't run as much and got better in the pocket. You still avoided the elephant in the room which is that Lamar went down statistically in every category from passing to rushing. Even if he has a bounce back year statistically in passing there is no way he can continue to run for 1k yards for 2-3 more years. He either improves in the pocket drastically or finds himself too expensive to be a starter but I agree with you that he's the best athlete we'll ever see in a QB for a long time. He's a great player. If Lamar could develop into a better pocket passer he has the potential of continuing in the league. My point remains that no great running QB lasted long rushing for a ton of yards without transforming into a pocket passer almost exclusively.
Nextmanup Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 43 minutes ago, BillsToast said: Correct a handful out of decades only a few, thank you for making my point. Steve Young didn't suck, although I think you thought I was referring to Vince Young so no biggie. Cunningham played best when he didn't run much. What's "best" from Cunningham to Vick was when they couldn't run as much and got better in the pocket. You still avoided the elephant in the room which is that Lamar went down statistically in every category from passing to rushing. Even if he has a bounce back year statistically in passing there is no way he can continue to run for 1k yards for 2-3 more years. He either improves in the pocket drastically or finds himself too expensive to be a starter but I agree with you that he's the best athlete we'll ever see in a QB for a long time. He's a great player. If Lamar could develop into a better pocket passer he has the potential of continuing in the league. My point remains that no great running QB lasted long rushing for a ton of yards without transforming into a pocket passer almost exclusively. I hope he was confusing the Youngs. Steve Young was a total stud and a great running QB who was also a great throwing QB. He was just a great QB, full stop.
GunnerBill Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 3 hours ago, BillsToast said: . Even if he has a bounce back year statistically in passing there is no way he can continue to run for 1k yards for 2-3 more years. Why? I think there is every chance he can. Teams have literally gameplanned around taking that away this season and he has still gone for over 1k. I think his passing numbers going forward will look more like 2020 than 2019 but I don't expect any real drop off in the run game. I think 900-1200 yards most seasons is a perfectly realistic expectation.
BillsToast Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Why? I think there is every chance he can. Teams have literally gameplanned around taking that away this season and he has still gone for over 1k. I think his passing numbers going forward will look more like 2020 than 2019 but I don't expect any real drop off in the run game. I think 900-1200 yards most seasons is a perfectly realistic expectation. I don't think it's the gameplanning as you can't stop him, it's just that he's going to wear out or get injured. I don't think a guy who is not built like a bull can take more than 3 years at this level without wearing down 5% which is more than enough to make him from Superman to great and great isn't enough to run for 1,000 yards+ when you're 27 after 6 years of football as a QB. He needs to push that number down to 600-800 yards and pass better or he'll wear out his body. It's not that 500 yards isn't that much, it's the extra hits in practice, harder workouts, and a body not made like a RB. Usain Bolt gave an interview explaining how the body peaks around 24-25 athletically and he realized he was slowing down in his late 20's. This is a guy who doesn't get hit. Many athletes say the same. Jackson runs twice as much as Randall Cunningham who hit his rushing wall at 27. McNair 25, and Vick 26.
PrimeTime101 Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 Survivability in this league is key. aka longevity
machine gun kelly Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 5 hours ago, NewEra said: There you go https://sportsfinda.com/top-10-running-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/ Most running QBs don’t last because they suck. The good running QBs last because they’re good Kaep didn’t last because he sucked young didnt last because he sucked Cunningham played like 15+ years and had his best season in his 13th year New Era, lots of good points, but if you’re referring to Steve Young, and he didn’t last, I don’t understand. Steve young has a career 64.5% career comp. %, played in the NFL for 15 years (additionally 2 years in the USFL) was league MVP twice, has a SB ring, and is in the HOF. How did he suck? I know he was hurt a lot towards the end, but he never sucked. Now as an announcer, he can be a pain at times, but I don’t watch ESPN often except MNF, and even then I usually don’t watch the pregame. I was a little surprised more people have not referenced Cunningham as he was a heck of a QB. 1
GunnerBill Posted January 13, 2021 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, BillsToast said: I don't think it's the gameplanning as you can't stop him, it's just that he's going to wear out or get injured. I don't think a guy who is not built like a bull can take more than 3 years at this level without wearing down 5% which is more than enough to make him from Superman to great and great isn't enough to run for 1,000 yards+ when you're 27 after 6 years of football as a QB. He needs to push that number down to 600-800 yards and pass better or he'll wear out his body. It's not that 500 yards isn't that much, it's the extra hits in practice, harder workouts, and a body not made like a RB. Usain Bolt gave an interview explaining how the body peaks around 24-25 athletically and he realized he was slowing down in his late 20's. This is a guy who doesn't get hit. Many athletes say the same. Jackson runs twice as much as Randall Cunningham who hit his rushing wall at 27. McNair 25, and Vick 26. I don't agree. Late 20s slowing down? I can absolutely see. 28 onwards, yea. That is 5 years away. The evidence is that Quarterbacks get hurt more often in the pocket than running and if you can't have 1,000 yard seasons after the age of 23 because of the wear and tear why do so many running backs manage it? I don't see any reason why Lamar won't continue to be as productive with his legs for at least the next 5 seasons and possibly up to 7 or 8. As he approaches and bits 30 I'd be worried whether it is sustainable. In his 20s? It absolutely is. And we don't know if Vick's rushing productivity dipped at 26. He spent the next two seasons suspended. I think you are completely and utterly wrong on this. Obviously only time will tell. Edited January 13, 2021 by GunnerBill 2
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