The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[Big Blitz]

He completed 7 passes tonight. 

 

The Browns D is atrocious and that last play call where they over loaded the right side and forced Lamer to run to his right (brilliant) that sucked up (tripped themselves) the 2 DBs and Brown broke wide open.  

 

It's what he does.  His freakish athletism makes things happen.  Will he be a good QB as the freakish starts to fade and the league continues to figure him out?  I honestly don't know how you can confidently say yes.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What about that looked like an MVP performance to you?

His 3 TD’s. His 4th down TD pass to tie the game. His GW drive to get the FG. His ridiculous runs. All against a good defense in a must-win game. 
 

He has regressed as a passer this year. But because of his legs, he is super dangerous and it opens up guys in the passing game at times. 
 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate. 
 

 

[GETTOTHE50]

6 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate. 
 

 

 

he gets the benefit of the doubt much, much more than allen. that pisses me off.

 

plus, ***** the ravens.

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

His 3 TD’s. His 4th down TD pass to tie the game. His GW drive to get the FG. His ridiculous runs. All against a good defense in a must-win game. 
 

He has regressed as a passer this year. But because of his legs, he is super dangerous and it opens up guys in the passing game at times. 
 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate. 
 

 

He completed 11 passes against a bad Cleveland defense. 
 

I don’t hate the guy but I also don’t pretend he’s a good QB.

[The Frankish Reich]

20 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

His 3 TD’s. His 4th down TD pass to tie the game. His GW drive to get the FG. His ridiculous runs. All against a good defense in a must-win game. 
 

He has regressed as a passer this year. But because of his legs, he is super dangerous and it opens up guys in the passing game at times. 
 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate. 
 

 

I'm not understanding it either. 

Actually, I am. It's just the "we won the draft" stuff.

My take on it: that QB Class of 2018 really is one to rival 1983. Rosen is a bust; the jury is still out (but getting ready to come back into the courtroom) on Darnold. But Mayfield, Jackson, and Allen are looking like this generation's Marino, Kelly, and Elway. Three dynamic, exciting, different players. They make the NFL fun to watch again.

Enjoy it, people! Wait till 2035 or so to start boasting about who "won" the draft. The answer for now is: NFL fans won.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

All I know is the more he predicates his game by scrambling, the more likely he will get hurt. He's not physically wired to be a true pocket passer. Running qbs don't usually have a long shelf life. Ask Vick or RG3.

Edited December 15, 2020 by LABILLBACKER

[The Frankish Reich]

8 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

All I know is the more he predicates his game by scrambling, the more likely he will get hurt. He's not physically wired to be a true pocket passer. Running qbs don't usually have a long shelf life. Ask Vick or RG3.

Not always.

Randall Cunningham's best season was at age 35.

Donovan McNabb's last good season was at age 33. Same for Steve McNair.

Of course all of those guys adjusted their games as they aged, and we don't know if Lamar can.

But for every pocket passer who lasts into their late 30s or (now) 40s (Peyton, Brees, Brady) there's an Andrew Luck who's done by 30. Sometimes you just gotta let it play out.

 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Not always.

Randall Cunningham's best season was at age 35.

Donovan McNabb's last good season was at age 33. Same for Steve McNair.

Of course all of those guys adjusted their games as they aged, and we don't know if Lamar can.

But for every pocket passer who lasts into their late 30s or (now) 40s (Peyton, Brees, Brady) there's an Andrew Luck who's done by 30. Sometimes you just gotta let it play out.

 

Those guys were complete QBs who also happened to be mobile. Jackson’s game is more Tim Tebow than Cunningham or McNair.

[BillsToast]

Jackson's final year as a starter will be next year. His body will be near the end of it's peak for athleticism with only downside.

 

He's a rookie contract QB only. The Ravens were smart to try to win with him for that short window. People remember a Superbowl victory over 30 years of "trying" and they basically were the Superbowl favorites last year.

 

Good effort but the gimmick is over. 

[Dr.Sack]

Lamar Jackson is an amazing scrambler, and such a run threat, that it opens up defenses to come forward and leaves passes open over the top. 

[MJS]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I'm not understanding it either. 

Actually, I am. It's just the "we won the draft" stuff.

My take on it: that QB Class of 2018 really is one to rival 1983. Rosen is a bust; the jury is still out (but getting ready to come back into the courtroom) on Darnold. But Mayfield, Jackson, and Allen are looking like this generation's Marino, Kelly, and Elway. Three dynamic, exciting, different players. They make the NFL fun to watch again.

Enjoy it, people! Wait till 2035 or so to start boasting about who "won" the draft. The answer for now is: NFL fans won.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to compare them to Marino, Kelly, and Elway. Especially Mayfield, who just seems pretty average to me. He's a legitimate starter, for sure.

 

As far as Jackson, I am just not impressed with him as a passer. But for sure he is a tremendous runner. Maybe that's enough for him to have a long, fruitful career. Who knows? But he has sucked in the playoffs two straight years, so we'll see.

 

I would prefer for him to fail because then that's one less hurdle for Allen and the Bills to jump over on their own road to a championship.

[BigDingus]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

He completed 11 passes against a bad Cleveland defense. 
 

I don’t hate the guy but I also don’t pretend he’s a good QB.

 

Josh had games like that too, but he only passed 17 times. But when you are rushing freely for the tune of 124 yards & 2 TD's (on top of the 1 passing TD) & don't turn the ball over, that's pretty damn impressive. 

I'm not saying he's a legend or anything, but accounting for nearly 300 yards of offense & 3 TD's is definitely a good thing.

[GunnerBill]

The whole reason the Lamar debate should not be stuck on absolutes like "MVP" or "End of era" is because Lamar can win like he won last night. That isn't a one off. It isn't a fluke. He has won like that multiple times in his career. I said it at the very start of the season. You could have a significant regression in his passing efficiency from 2019 (which I think almost all of us predicted..... especially in regards to the % of his throws that yielded touchdowns in 2019 which was a statistical anomaly) and the Ravens could still win double digit games. And here we stand. Baltimore at 8-5 with games against the Jags, Giants and Bengals to come.

 

Lamar is not the type of Quarterback I would choose for my franchise. But let's remember where the Ravens were when they made that choice. They were in purgatory. Flacco's body had given up on him and he had gone from high end game manager to basically a backup calibre player. But the team was too good to end up with a top 10 pick. They already had young elite talent at some of the key positions in Ronny Stanley at left tackle and Marlon Humphrey at corner. They needed to find a Quarterback and they were not gonna be in situ to get Darnold or Rosen or Mayfield or Allen. They focused on what was potentially an option and then have tried to build a team to support that.

 

Lamar isn't a flash in the pan. He is going to win plenty of games in the NFL. Whether you can ever win a Championship playing this way is a fair question.... I think everything else would need to be perfect - and certainly this year their offensive line hasn't been with Yanda retiring, Stanley tearing his ACL and other injuries. But he is going to be able to win plenty of games without ever being an elite passer because he is an elite running Quarterback. In my time only a young Mike Vick even comes close. Comparisons with Tyrod or RGIII are off the mark. There will be times and games where Lamar's limitations catch up with Baltimore. But there will also be plenty where his skillset enables them to win.

 

I wouldn't want him or want the Bills to swap Josh for him. But people have to view Lamar through a slightly different lens. Because his gifts mean he is the only QB in the league that I think could win regularly completing 10-15 passes. That is the 14th time in his young career he has done it. It is not a fluke.

[Albanybillsbacker]

For as bad as our defense was early in the season, they have consistently been able to take away what the other offense does best.  If those offenses are dynamic and can switch to something else, they were getting gouged the first 8 weeks.  
 

To me, bring on the Ravens.  I have complete confidence that the bills can bottle him up and be patient.  The browns are the type of team to over pursue  and get taken advantage of by a mobile QB. McD will have a plan and will shut him down.

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

He completed 11 passes against a bad Cleveland defense. 
 

I don’t hate the guy but I also don’t pretend he’s a good QB.

There are only two choices 1) you hate him and think he is so bad he should not even be an NFL starting QB or 2) He is a transcendent player who is revolutionizing the game.  

There can be no middle ground. 

[Sharky7337]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

There are only two choices 1) you hate him and think he is so bad he should not even be an NFL starting QB or 2) He is a transcendent player who is revolutionizing the game.  

There can be no middle ground. 

Or maybe that he just united all of us everywhere that has had the runs and had to do the job while pinching a flaming loaf short?

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Sharky7337

[Plano]

Guys, Lamar is a runningback who throws it sometimes.

 

I have nothing against him, but that's who he is. He's making it work, but for how long is the question. 

 

 

[BITE ME]

Lamar is not a good quarterback.  He is a great athlete and runner.  You will never win a championship in the NFL against guys like Mahomes, Rogers, or even Allen when your quarterback can't sling the ball.  Mahomes (and the NFL's decision to make the rules favor offenses) has changed the league.  If you can't throw the ball your ceiling is maybe a first round playoff win. And so far Jackson hasn't even pulled that off.  He is 0-2 in the playoffs for a reason.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

His 3 TD’s. His 4th down TD pass to tie the game. His GW drive to get the FG. His ridiculous runs. All against a good defense in a must-win game. 
 

He has regressed as a passer this year. But because of his legs, he is super dangerous and it opens up guys in the passing game at times. 
 

I am just not understanding the Lamar hate.

 

I don't understand why you feel that the Browns have a good defense?   Frankly, they were playing Lamar last night as though they'd never seen him before, instead of like a division rival where they were facing him for the 4th or 5th time. 

 

Earlier in the season the Ravens gashed them for 38.  The Steelers hung up 38 on them also.

 

Maybe they're missing people - who?

 

Last night I thought the Browns D were 15 or 16 on points until I realized I was looking at 12 games vs 13 games and they were actually something like 24.

 

You've been saying this repeatedly in a couple of threads so I'd just like to understand where the "Browns good defense" thing comes from?

 

If it's the Titans, it's true that they contained Travis Henry to 60 yds rushing instead of his ridiculous 118 ypg average.  But they also gave up 4 straight TD in the 3rd and 4th Q, and the Titans finished with 389 yds passing and 3 TD.  Shades of the Bills D against the Rams, which I don't think any of us would call good.  I didn't see the game, but it looks like a story of turnovers.

 

IF the Browns are a good defense, I would have to say this year Joe Wood seems to have misplaced the "book" on how to handle the Ravens, because they can't.  In contrast, Sean McDermott and Leslie Frazier wrote the first chapter which the Titans edited when they wrote the book.

 

Now back to the thread, I don't understand the Lamar hate either.  He has enough arm to be dangerous, and if you let him go off-script or get the deep throws or TE throws he likes, he'll burn you with it.  A lot of his passing "regression" is actually OL injuries and illnesses.  I tend to think some of the Lamar dissing arises as an over-reaction to the "MVP" "LJEra" and "he keeps getting better, just put his bust in Canton" hype rather than "he's a very talented dual-threat QB with some gaps in his game which allow good defenses to key on what he does well, and he needed to level up his passing game after last season - he didn't."

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't understand why you feel that the Browns have a good defense?   Frankly, they were playing Lamar last night as though they'd never seen him before, instead of like a division rival where they were facing him for the 4th or 5th time.  Earlier in the season the Ravens gashed them for 38.  Maybe they're missing people - who?

 

Last night I thought they were 15 or 16 on points until I realized I was looking at 12 games vs 13 games and they were actually something like 24.

 

You've been saying this repeatedly in a couple of threads so I'd just like to understand where the "Browns good defense" thing comes from?

 

If it's the Titans, it's true that they contained Travis Henry to 60 yds rushing instead of his ridiculous 118 ypg average.  But they also gave up 4 straight TD in the 3rd and 4th Q, and the Titans finished with 389 yds passing and 3 TD.  Shades of the Bills D against the Rams, which I don't think any of us would call good.  I didn't see the game, but it looks like a story of turnovers.

 

Now back to the thread, I don't understand the Lamar hate either.  He has enough arm to be dangerous, and if you let him go off-script and get the deep throws or TE throws he likes, he'll burn you with it.  But I tend to think it's an over-reaction to the "MVP" and "he keeps getting better, just put his bust in Canton" hype rather than "he's a very talented dual-threat QB with some gaps in his game which allow good defenses to key on what he does well, and he needed to level up his passing game after last season - he didn't."

 

They've given up more than 30 points 7 times this year....7!

 

We have 4 and we played the NFC West.  The Browns played the NFC East.