The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[njbuff]

As long as Lamar Jackson doesn't play against Patrick Mahomes, he is fine.

 

Problem is that he can't throw with Mahomes. Which is a BIG problem.

 

There aren't too many QB's in today's NFL that can throw with Mahomes, so Jackson doesn't deserve to get dissed for that.

 

Unfortunately for Jackson, he is always going to be tied to Mahomes and he has yet to be Mahomes.

 

On a lighter note, Allen will get his chance to throw with Mahomes.

[njbuff]

6 minutes ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

The narrative that this guy can't pass is ridiculous, and you're clearly just hating out of spite for whatever reason if you think that. One bad game, he had one bad game, against a super bowl champion lol. Look at his passing numbers, clowns.

 

He is 0-3 against Mahomes and is 0-2 in the playoffs.

 

Those are his only losses, but unfortunately all of those losses are tied to him and his limitations when facing higher levels of competition.

 

Plus he has yet to lead a come from behind victory for Baltimore. Very troubling.

 

Jackson is a frontrunner to the extreme until proven otherwise.

 

Lamar Jackson is tied to what I said just like the Bills of the 90's are tied to SB losses. Jackson gets a chance to overcome this stereotype, unlike those 90's Bills teams.

[eball]

Here’s an interesting theoretical to ponder:

 

You take the same defense, same supporting cast, and have to decide if you want Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson as your QB.

 

As recently as four weeks ago, outside of WNY the ratio would have probably been 90/10 in favor of Jackson.

 

Right now, I bet that ratio has closed to about 50/50.

 

Remember, both QBs have the same number of playoff wins.

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

The narrative that this guy can't pass is ridiculous, and you're clearly just hating out of spite for whatever reason if you think that. One bad game, he had one bad game, against a super bowl champion lol. Look at his passing numbers, clowns.

If he can pass so well he wouldn’t be running as much as he is. Kids very talented athlete that has a gift, but it’s his legs not his arm. Stats don’t tell the whole story. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

54 minutes ago, eball said:

Here’s an interesting theoretical to ponder:

 

You take the same defense, same supporting cast, and have to decide if you want Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson as your QB.

 

As recently as four weeks ago, outside of WNY the ratio would have probably been 90/10 in favor of Jackson.

 

Right now, I bet that ratio has closed to about 50/50.

 

Remember, both QBs have the same number of playoff wins.

but one guy was shut down twice in the playoffs 

[BillsFan130]

5 hours ago, eball said:

Here’s an interesting theoretical to ponder:

 

You take the same defense, same supporting cast, and have to decide if you want Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson as your QB.

 

As recently as four weeks ago, outside of WNY the ratio would have probably been 90/10 in favor of Jackson.

 

Right now, I bet that ratio has closed to about 50/50.

 

Remember, both QBs have the same number of playoff wins.

Before the year I was 50/50 as crazy as that sounds.

 

Now Josh all the way.

[bobobonators]

So many hot takes on here. 
 

23yrs old

NFL MVP (arguably one of the best statistical seasons ever for a QB)

23-4 in his very young career

 

Other than winning a super bowl in your first 2 seasons, can you possibly do any better than that? Not really.

 

Lamar came into a franchise in disarray :

 

2015: 5-11

2016: 8-8

2017: 9-7

2018: started 4-5 before he was put in at QB

 

Since Lamar has been starter that franchise has been electric, and the turnaround hyperbolic. Some of you talk about the Ravens as if he came on to the Ray Lewis/Ed Reed era Ravens. The ravens sucked. There were serious talks about Harbaugh leaving in 2018. 
 

Lamar is the Ravens; he’s also the reigning NFL MVP. At the very least show some respect. He’s not “average” or “below average” at anything. 

 

 

[Chaos]

There are “bad games”  and there are very bad games. In Jackson’s last four starts he has had two very bad games.  The open question is are the two bad games an anomaly or they results of defenses “solving” for Jackson’s highly unusual skill set.  
 

To me the closest comparison to Jackson’s skills in QB history is Michael Vick.  
Vick had a pretty successful NFL career. I expect Jackson may have similar success.  If you consider Vick to have been a great QB then you can certainly put Jackson in that level.  
 

If defenses have “solved” Jackson and he and Roman cannot counter the solution, then Jackson’s results will likely trend in an unfavorable direction. Time will tell. 

[Teddy KGB]

On 10/1/2020 at 4:39 AM, QCity said:

 

lol The end of an era. But he's probably only going to win 1 Super Bowl going forward. What a trainwreck. 

dudes never won a playoff game, Super Bowl lmao 

[Bill from NYC]

On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 9:17 AM, BillsVet said:

I'll give the league's 2019 MVP more than 1 game to demonstrate he can no longer be dynamic. 

 

Josh is the better passer of the football right now and may always be.  What is funny are the people who pronounce something is so with regard to players, league trends after one or a handful of games.  It takes a much bigger sample size to identify what is happening across the NFL or how a young player does or does not progress.

Good points.

 

Before Brady passed him, Joe Montana was regarded by a whole lot of fans and sportswriters as the GOAT, however; I heard MANY players say that they felt that Steve Young was better than him. One thing is certain, running quarterbacks are thrilling to watch both in the NFL and college. That said, they get hurt. It virtually HAS to happen because every NFL player gets hurt and a running quarterback increases his exposure. The rules are set up now to protect QBs and running and getting hit by genetic mutants can work in the short term, but will eventually get a QB slaughtered.

 

Btw the above includes our Josh. I was VERY happy when we drafted him and I didn't even know that he was a great runner. He has the potential to be the most exciting player in the history of the Bills. Yeah, I know this is a bold statement. My wish for him is that as time passes he runs less, the thrill of watching him do so notwithstanding.

 

In summary, Jackson is a fine QB imo. I don't know if the will ever have an "era," however he is good enough to win titles for his team IF he lasts.

 

As always, JMO.

[mannc]

14 hours ago, eball said:

Here’s an interesting theoretical to ponder:

 

You take the same defense, same supporting cast, and have to decide if you want Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson as your QB.

 

As recently as four weeks ago, outside of WNY the ratio would have probably been 90/10 in favor of Jackson.

 

Right now, I bet that ratio has closed to about 50/50.

 

Remember, both QBs have the same number of playoff wins.

The difference is that you have to design a specific offensive system for Lamar.  You can just drop Josh Allen into pretty much any NFL offense that’s ever been.

[finn]

22 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

If Josh can continue to make strides in his game, so can Lamar.

 

I don't think is necessarily true, if by "strides" you mean the giant leaps Allen has made, which may be unprecedented at the QB position if they continue or even hold up. I say that because Allen has a package of football intelligence, coachability, drive to improve, and competitiveness that few QBs have. Add to that his physical traits and you have a real anomaly. Jackson might match Allen's physical traits (he's a better runner but not as big), and you could argue he also has football intelligence and coachability, maybe, but he seems to get all mopey and regress when things go badly, and I don't see much improvement this year, which suggests he might not be as driven as Allen so clearly is. As others have pointed out, if you take away his tight ends, he's lost. I get it that we don't have to tear down Jackson to feel good about Allen, but I don't think TheElectricCompany's claim necessarily follows. 

[TheElectricCompany]

34 minutes ago, finn said:

I don't think is necessarily true, if by "strides" you mean the giant leaps Allen has made, which may be unprecedented at the QB position if they continue or even hold up. I say that because Allen has a package of football intelligence, coachability, drive to improve, and competitiveness that few QBs have. Add to that his physical traits and you have a real anomaly. Jackson might match Allen's physical traits (he's a better runner but not as big), and you could argue he also has football intelligence and coachability, maybe, but he seems to get all mopey and regress when things go badly, and I don't see much improvement this year, which suggests he might not be as driven as Allen so clearly is. As others have pointed out, if you take away his tight ends, he's lost. I get it that we don't have to tear down Jackson to feel good about Allen, but I don't think TheElectricCompany's claim necessarily follows. 

 

Improvements will not always be massive leaps, but yes, it is reasonable to expect 3rd year QBs to continue to develop. You do realize that Lamar's leap from Year 1 to 2 was also quite unprecedented, right?

 

I'm not going into comparing intangibles between LJ and Josh - they both "check the boxes" and want to be great. Remember Lamar's draft night interview, when they asked him what Ravens fans could expect, and his response was "Super Bowl - believe that" ?  Josh didn't talk about Super Bowls that night, it's clear he doesn't care about being a champion. 🙄

 

"Take away the tight ends", "take away his running ability", "take him out of a Roman run heavy scheme", why do we continue to put asterisks on his performance, like he needs to apologize for his talents and situation?

 

Looks lost throwing outside....Okie dokie, here are his 2019 numbers. Deep ball was his "weak" area.

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Good points.

 

Before Brady passed him, Joe Montana was regarded by a whole lot of fans and sportswriters as the GOAT, however; I heard MANY players say that they felt that Steve Young was better than him. One thing is certain, running quarterbacks are thrilling to watch both in the NFL and college. That said, they get hurt. It virtually HAS to happen because every NFL player gets hurt and a running quarterback increases his exposure. The rules are set up now to protect QBs and running and getting hit by genetic mutants can work in the short term, but will eventually get a QB slaughtered.

 

Btw the above includes our Josh. I was VERY happy when we drafted him and I didn't even know that he was a great runner. He has the potential to be the most exciting player in the history of the Bills. Yeah, I know this is a bold statement. My wish for him is that as time passes he runs less, the thrill of watching him do so notwithstanding.

 

In summary, Jackson is a fine QB imo. I don't know if the will ever have an "era," however he is good enough to win titles for his team IF he lasts.

 

As always, JMO.

As long as OJ exists in Bills history it will be hard to have a more exciting player.

 

As for Shaw's take, I agree with him 99% of the time.  This 1%, I think he's being a bit premature.

[Shaw66]

50 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

 

 

As for Shaw's take, I agree with him 99% of the time.  This 1%, I think he's being a bit premature.

Hey, old man.   I'll give you a simple test to see if you really think I'm premature.

 

Would you trade Josh Allen even up for Lamar Jackson?   

 

I know, right now, that Josh Allen will have a better career than Lamar Jackson.  There is no way I'd make that trade.  Why?  Because I'm pretty sure that 15 years from now we will not be talking about Lamar Jackson as one of the all time greats, and there's a good chance we will be having that conversation about Allen. 

 

Of course, if you and I are having that conversation, it'll be in some old folks home.  

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

There are “bad games”  and there are very bad games. In Jackson’s last four starts he has had two very bad games.  The open question is are the two bad games an anomaly or they results of defenses “solving” for Jackson’s highly unusual skill set.  
 

To me the closest comparison to Jackson’s skills in QB history is Michael Vick.  
Vick had a pretty successful NFL career. I expect Jackson may have similar success.  If you consider Vick to have been a great QB then you can certainly put Jackson in that level.  
 

If defenses have “solved” Jackson and he and Roman cannot counter the solution, then Jackson’s results will likely trend in an unfavorable direction. Time will tell. 

I think the Vick comparison is about right.  Vick had a better arm, clearly,   HE was a great runner, but he didn't have Lamar's elusiveness.  But I agree, VIck's career is likely Jackson's upside.  

[C.Biscuit97]

What a petty thread.  Why does this board have a hard on for putting down a 23 year old MVP?  I know this is crazy but you can be thrilled with Allen and not have to put another player down.  A few things. 
 

1 - Jackson was awful Monday.  It seems if you get the lead on the Ravens, it’s a struggle for them to come back.  He needs to prove he can do that.

 

2 - his receivers suck besides Brown

 

3 - if Josh Allen wins the MVP this year and then in game 3 loses to the SB champs with a generational qb, if someone started a thread called the Josh Allen era is over, we’d think they were a loser right?  What is the point of this?

 

without a doubt, Allen has been the better qb.  So why not be happy that through 3 games, our guy is outperforming last years MVP rather than knock Jackson down?  Seems petty and bad mojo.

[Ramza86]

Def not the end of the era. As long as he has a decent team around him he will be in the playoffs with a title chance every year. 

 

Thats really all you can ask for.

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

As long as OJ exists in Bills history it will be hard to have a more exciting player.

 

As for Shaw's take, I agree with him 99% of the time.  This 1%, I think he's being a bit premature.

Good point wrt OJ.

The game has changed to the degree that the running back position has been seriously diminished in importance. Don't misunderstand, I love a good running game and a player like Derek Henry is very exciting to me, but today fans seem to want high power passing games and Arena League scores.

Old timers like us tend to prefer balanced offenses and strong defenses.

 

[TheElectricCompany]

49 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

VIck's career is likely Jackson's floor.  

 

FIFY

 

 

[Shaw66]

45 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

FIFY

 

 

Didn't know what FIFY meant, but I figured it out..

 

We disagree fundamentally on this one. Let's talk in five years.