The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

I got you, but what I am saying is they drove down there pretty much at ease doing what they do.  But once KC scored 14, I feel they went into "trying to keep up mode" instead of doing what they best in heavy running and play action.

They're frontrunners. Zero sand. The Ravens run it up on bad teams and fold when they're behind in big games. Humphries admitted it after they went out to Tennessee last year.

[Chaos]

10 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

...

 

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

LJ is not King. Shaw did not miss. He was dead on. 

[Scott7975]

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Never understood the hype.  He is not a good passer.  He reads one defender and has one good pass on pretty much a straight arrow.  Wilson should have gotten the MVP last year IMO.

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

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Never understood the hype.  He is not a good passer.  He reads one defender and has one good pass on pretty much a straight arrow.  Wilson should have gotten the MVP last year IMO.

Well, I agree with you, but I also understand the hype.  He's a spectacular runner, and he throws well, at least the passes he throws.  And he's a great competitor.  I just don't see how that style wins, long-term.  It's too one dimensional.

[Scott7975]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Well, I agree with you, but I also understand the hype.  He's a spectacular runner, and he throws well, at least the passes he throws.  And he's a great competitor.  I just don't see how that style wins, long-term.  It's too one dimensional.

 

I agree with that.  He is an amazing athlete, fun to watch, and runs Romans offense really well.  As a passer though, he just isn't there.  I also agree it wont win long term against teams able to contain the run and take the middle of the field away.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with that.  He is an amazing athlete, fun to watch, and runs Romans offense really well.  As a passer though, he just isn't there.  I also agree it wont win long term against teams able to contain the run and take the middle of the field away.

The elephant in the room is that Jackson would seem to have no game if his legs are even slightly dinged up.  No variety.  

[Ya Digg?]

The end of an era is wayyyyyy too much hyperbole for me. He might not have the season he had last year, but he’s still really good. Yes teams might be figuring him out a little bit, but he has too much talent to not have a couple of huge games every year. He definitely has his flaws-he doesn’t throw well outside to receivers, he’s probably going to need a good/great running game and tight ends to help him out, but just as Josh Allen has his narrative that he is breaking, I think Lamar is still fighting off the narrative he received at the beginning of his career 

[Success]

Agree w/ those who think this is premature.

 

I'm just waiting for the same reaction when Josh has his 1st sub-par game.  It's too much of a hot take.  Jackson is an excellent QB - he may not repeat what he did last year, but he's gonna win a lot of games in his career.

 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

The end of an era is wayyyyyy too much hyperbole for me. 

Fair enough.  Wrong title.  

 

But I think I'm correct his trajectory.  He may even win a Super Bowl, but he is not going to be an elite QB.  

[Teddy KGB]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Fair enough.  Wrong title.  

 

But I think I'm correct his trajectory.  He may even win a Super Bowl, but he is not going to be an elite QB.  

whoa whoa whoa.    Let’s see if he ever wins a playoff game first.  

[LB48]

11 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".

 

Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earning a seat. Both of these things can exist simultaneously.

 

Frankly, I find this take to be garbage. "The end of an era" because the MVP had one bad game?  Get outta here...

 

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

Agreed about the post in general.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

No offense but making grand proclamations based on one game is an epic overreaction 

[BruceVilanch]

11 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Awesome!!  My favorite Wire quote, from Omar Little:

 

I personally liked Deangelo's "The King stay King"

[Freddie's Dead]

2 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

I personally liked Deangelo's "The King stay King"

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

17 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Fair enough.  Wrong title.  

 

But I think I'm correct his trajectory.  He may even win a Super Bowl, but he is not going to be an elite QB.  

I don’t see how he wins a SB. You can’t be that limited as a passer and get past playoff defenses and offenses. 

[Penfield45]

This might be one of the dumbest threads ever created in this site 

 

one bad game lol. How can you say Murray is a RB when he’s more accurate than more than half the QB’s in the league? Just non sense talk.

 

you sound like a delusional homer 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Penfield45

[BruceVilanch]

3 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

RIP Deangelo....

[TheElectricCompany]

15 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

You can’t be that limited as a passer and get past playoff defenses and offenses. 

 

From Baltimore Sun this month: 

This year, Jackson’s AFC-leading accuracy belies the difficulty of his throws: According to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, he’s throwing the ball farther downfield than ever before (9.4 intended air yards per pass, No. 9 overall). Despite ranking No. 29 in the NFL in attempts, according to Pro-Football-Reference, Jackson ranks No. 13 in completed air yards. As a runner and a passer, the Ravens refuse to coddle him.

Jackson’s precociousness as a runner and leader has been well documented. But even some of the NFL’s most decorated passers didn’t find a groove as quickly as he has. Jackson’s accuracy through his first 24 starts (65%) trumps that of Tom Brady (64.8%), Aaron Rodgers (63.4%), Russell Wilson (63%) and Drew Brees (59.7%).

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-lamar-jackson-accuracy-20200924-wjepc7fzcbdzhn6stovijrogge-story.html

 

How about some video? Tell me how this guy is a limited passer and how he can't make plays from the pocket. 

 

From Jay Glazier this offseason: 

"He works his butt off, so I think he's going to always stay a step ahead. The thing not talked about enough with Jackson is his jump in accuracy. He worked so hard to get more accurate. It wasn't a little more accurate—it was a lot more accurate. Coaches around the league marvel about his accuracy and how much he jumped last year. He has gone through the ceiling because of his work ethic."

 

Put some RESPECT on this guys name. 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Sharky7337]

Truth is guys it was just his gigantic gold chain weighing him down.

[Zerovoltz]

11 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I've said since the beginning of the year that I'm not buying the Lamar Jackson hype, and I'm not buying the Kyler Murray hype, either.   I know they are really special athletes, and they're a couple of the best running backs in the league, but they limit their offenses.  

 

The problem with Jackson is related to something McDermott (and plenty of other coaches) say all the time:  You have to force the opponent to defend the entire field - sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to the goal line.  The reason is simple:  If you can threaten to strike anyplace on the field, the defense has to spread out to defend all those places.  When the defense spreads out, they create holes for the offense to attack. 

 

You could see the problem almost immediately last night.  One on side of the ball was a team, the Chiefs, that is perhaps the best in the league at attacking the whole field.  They will hurt you anyplace you leave unprotected.  The Ravens started out playing the game no more than 30 yards downfield, and as the game progress, they didn't even threaten that deep.  The defense tightened and tightened.  Sure, Jackson kept getting himself some nice runs here and there, but they essentially give up the ability to get 100-200 passing downfield to get an extra 50 or 100 out of Jackson.  That's a bad trade.  

 

The other thing that was apparent is that to be a premier QB, you MUST be able to stand in the pocket and direct the attack.  You can't run an effective, all-over-the-field passing attack from outside the hash marks.  Why?  Because you can't threaten deep passes down the right side if your QB is standing outside the left hashmark.  (Well, you can if your QB is Josh Allen, but that's something else.)   Your QB has to be able to stand in, see the entire field, make decisions, and then make throws.   Jackson couldn't do that last night.  If he's going to make it, he has a lot of work to do as a pocket passer.   But even that may not be enough, because if you're going to feature your QB running the ball, you need your receiver to stay shallow to block for him.  So in your regular offense, your receivers aren't running deep routes, so the deep threat isn't there.  

 

It was all pretty obvious watching last night.   Mahomes stands in the pocket, makes decisions and makes throws.   Jackson doesn't.  Jackson will not be a premier QB if he doesn't learn to play that traditional QB game.  He's way, way behind Josh Allen in developing those skills.  Allen plays much more like Mahomes than like Jackson.  McBeane have always said he was going to be a pocket passer.  They've been working on making him one since he arrived in Buffalo.  Baltimore went down the other road, building an offense that plays to Jackson's strengths, but that is an offense that by definition is limited.  I think they're wasting their time.   Jackson will hurt some teams sometimes, he'll force your defense to play a different style than their used to, but at the end of the season, Baltimore's offense will limit their ability to win big games.  

 

Finally, to bring it back to Allen and the Bills, Mahomes wasn't doing anything last night that Allen doesn't do.  Allen has the better arm, clearly, Mahomes is more poised and more able to attack weaknesses consistently - that's clear too.  What's so encouraging is that Allen can learn to be a great field general, but good as Mahomes arm is, he can't learn to throw like Josh.  

 

Bills are heading down the right road. 

 

 

 

 

 

I found this paragraph to be a bit homer-ish....."He can't throw like Josh"?  Allen has a "better" arm?  What throw does Josh make that Mahomes can't or doesn't make?  ....Better Arm...both can launch it.  if we are talking arm strength....they both have elite arm strength.  ....then last sentence...LOL...Mahomes "can't learn to throw like Josh"  ....uh....OH NO!  my MVP, and Super Bowl MVP apparently can't throw like Josh Allen....man...what a bummer!

 

10 hours ago, die hard bills fan said:

I agree Jackson has been over-hyped  but take into consideration the coaches and offenses they play in.

Reid is >>>Roman.  Mahomes is great but he also had wide open receivers to throw to last night and more talented players to work with.

How would Jackson do if he played for the Chiefs?  I don't think he an elite passer but I don't think you need to be to be in a winning system. 

 

 

Most offensive coordinators are able to dial up some plays where guys end up open.  Daboll has his share of these.  Mahomes often finds and hits these targets when they are "wide open"  He also hits guys when they aren't wide open and throws them open etc....it's good when the QB does both.

 

10 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

21 of his 46 passing touchdowns have come within 10 yards of the goal line. So yes the trend is they generally work down the field running and then can throw it in within 10 yards. I would suggest going to read pro football references page on Lamar. Game log passing touchdowns for his career. 
You will see a giant portion of his passing touchdowns within 10 yards and with the score up big by Baltimore a lot of times last year. 
But once again this isn’t about if he can throw, or lead teams. It’s sustaining MVP level elite play. There was and is zero chance Baltimore and Lamar can maintain what they did last season. 

 

Uh......  Josh Allen 16 of 39 TD passes, inside 10 yards...that's 41%   Lamar, 21/46 45%  not exactly the stat you want to be trying to use here.

 

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

My major disappointment about last night was that I had hopes Wink Martindale would lay down a blueprint the Bills could work from to slow KC's offense.

Not so much.  Perhaps The Evil Hoodie will come up with something.

 

The blueprint is out there.  You must get pressure on Mahomes with your front 4 consistantly, and you give a bunch of different looks with man/zone combos that make mahomes have to process long enough for your pass rush to move him.  The Chargers are a team that has given us (KC) fits with this for years.  The 49ers were able to do it in the SB...KC still won....but that's how you slow Mahomes. 

 

I haven't seen enough of you guys to know yet, but if your front 4  can't get it done....that's not good for you.

 

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

True, this is something Allen will still need to prove he can beat. There are a couple of gifs on Twitter from Sunday's game where the Rams blitzed him and Allen appears to miss an open Kroft running across the middle. Mahomes is still worlds ahead of him at beating a blitz. Allen will have to show he can consistently find his hot read.

 

Happy Days makes an astute observation here.  Mahomes was 16/19 with 3 TDS and something like 250 yards VS the Blitz against hte Ravens.  Blitzing mahomes is a BAD idea.  he kills blitzs.  You need the front 4 to win on their own.

 

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Excuse me for going all basics, but the "weird take" call begs the question of that being needed here.   Of course, every offense operates better when running with a lead and the clock on their side. But Devin Duvernay's 93 yd kickoff return excepted, in general passing is the way to move the ball and score more quickly.  Thus the current wisdom in the NFL is you can force a team out of their run game and into a pass-heavy attack if you build a substantial lead on them. 

 

The Bills old K-gun and the Rams "Greatest Show on Turf" were noted as quick strike attacks, able to come from behind and rack up points quickly.

 

All that said - the Ravens were never in so much of a hole that they weren't perfectly able to run the ball effectively.  The Chiefs led by between 3 and 10 points for most of the game - only at the end of the 2Q did they rack up a 3 score lead of 17 points and the Ravens got within 7 at the beginning of the 4Q

 

I don't know why so many are reacting as if the Chiefs put the Ravens in a 25 point hole that you'd expect no team to reasonably come back from

The Ravens were within a few catchable, but dropped or overthrown passes of being right in there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

KC more than doubled them in yardage etc.  While the ravens did come withing 7 points in the 3rd Q when the score became 27-20, KC had some miscues that should have opened up a bigger score....missed XP, missed FG, that's 4 points, fumbled inside 20 on first drive of Q3.  Didn't convert on a 3rd and 1, then 4th and 1, TO on downs.  Score was closer than actual play indicated.  KC D only gave up 13 points.    Same thing last year.  KC won 33-25.  KC was up 33-10 going into Q 4.  Game was never in doubt....Balt got garbage time TD including last TD with like 30 seconds left in the game....and there were 2 4th downs in the 4th Q where Lamar litteraly was being sacked and just lobbed up prayers...and they caught both.....score was much closer than the game actually was. 

 

It wasn't that close.