The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't think it will help much. Jackson can throw the TE seam w/anticipation because it's a straight read and always a mismatch. There aren't a lot of routes that true WR1s excel at (versus JAG wideouts) that Jackson can also exploit. He can hit spots between cover2 but you don't need a top wideout for those go routes, that's why Brown was so successful getting downfield. Jackson's reads from the pocket aren't sophisticated enough to take advantage of everything a top WR can do.

 

He needs to learn the position. They have set that offense up to maximize his effectiveness which has had the curious additional effect of stunting his growth at the position. They need to bring him along because he is not going to improve playing zone read/option and single read sets.

This

[IDBillzFan]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

But against the best teams in the biggest spots (playoffs especially) he is going to need to come through to silence the doubters.

 

Starting with what I thought was one of the more interesting stats: his inability to overcome a deficit. That's the kind of stat that can hang around you neck for a very long time, and ultimately make its way into your team's head.

 

But in fairness, you can't overcome deficits if your D can't stop the other team. Just look at last night. Its 27-10 at the half. KC gets the ball to start the second half and turns it over. Ravens only manage three points, but still gets points off the turnover. Then they stop KC on downs and score a TD on their next drive to pull within seven.

 

THIS is where the Raven D had to show up...but they let KC get seven on the next drive, and everyone knew the game was over. 

 

Still, in ability to overcome a deficit, to me, can hang with a team.

[BuffBillsForLife]

I was a Lamar doubter for the longest time, but the kid can ball.  He's like the best possible version of Kaep and the reigning MVP, it's silly to say his era has ended after one bad game.  Personally I wouldn't build my offense around the run game like the Ravens have and am much happier to have Allen and a strong passing attack, but come on.

[TheElectricCompany]

26 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Lamar is a good QB in my opinion.  He's a bit different but good none the less.  He has improved as a passer every year.

I don't believe he will be the passer that Allen and Mahomes are but he will have a good career.

 

With that being said.  He should not have got the MVP last season because he had games like this so leave the MVP talk out of it.

 

Allen and Mahomes are not in the same passing universe.

Wilson is the only one who comes close, but Mahomes is one of a kind. For as long as he's in the league, I think he'll be in the #1 QB.

Lamar is no slouch as a passer and unanimous MVP for a reason (only happened twice in history) . I think he'll have several seasons  where he's in the MVP conversation again, as will Allen.

Edited September 29, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Teddy KGB]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Lamar has a total of 4 regular season losses. 3 of them are to Mahomes. Maybe we calm down a bit. 

 

 

He just passed for 97 yards.      Lou or Carl Mahomes would’ve taken him out 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

You're missing the point.  Sure, Jackson may light up a bunch of teams again this year.  The problem isn't that he isn't talented.  The problem is that the offense is one-dimensional, and first the good defenses and eventually all the defenses will learn to stop it, just like KC did last night.  

 

What I'm saying is that Jackson is not a long-term premier QB, at least not until he learns to play like Brees and Wilson, small guys who play from the pocket.  It was obvious last night that Jackson can't play from the pocket anything like a top QB.  

 

 

 

Oh your point t was loud and clear--it's the same old "Jackson is a great running back" stuff.  Nice.

 

 

Anyway, Last year he had 25 TDs passes from the pocket.  More than Brees.  He had 24 passing TDs vs the blitz--nearly twice as many as Wilson.  He can play in the pocket. 

 

Last night he was clearly rattled.  Not much help from his receivers--drops.  Plus his atrocious D put him in a hole all night--they allowed an LT to get open in the EZ for a TD and a FB shovel pass TD.  It was pure abuse by Chiefs Offense.

 

Saying he's done is possibly a bit premature---that is the point.

 

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Allen and Mahomes are not in the same passing universe.

Wilson is the only one who comes close, but Mahomes is one of a kind. For as long as he's in the league, I think he'll be in the #1 QB.

Lamar is no slouch as a passer and unanimous MVP for a reason (only happened twice in history) . I think he'll have several seasons  where he's in the MVP conversation again, as will Allen.

If who Allen is right now is what he is from now on then I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the first 1.  So far this season Allen has been as good as Mahomes and I would argue that Mahomes is one of the few with a better supporting cast that possibly includes HC and OC.

If you take away that BS int and the game keeps going as it was do you realize what Allen's stay line for the season looks like after 3 games.

Edited September 29, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Have not read this entire thread, but I would give the guy a break. People have bad games. He is an MVP talent. He has proven me wrong, I know— based on a now very good sample size, he is an exceptional and ultra-accurate pocket passer, and a terrific scrambler. 

[DuckyBoys]

Lamar is game script dependent .  He needs their crazy run game with all the rpos and misdirection to open up passing he's comfortable with  Nothing wrong with that.  Take Jared Goff for example  If McVay dumps the run game and Goff drops back 45 times the Rams would not be as effective.  Right now he needs the run game working to be a efficient passer as well as a solid defense to keep the game close.   Maybe he improves and maybe their offense is tailored to pass more at some point.  He's fun to watch and their style obviously is working. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

What offense is designed to play from behind? That's a weird take.

There are many ways to win in this league - a run heavy attack with a dual threat QB is one of them.

 

Excuse me for going all basics, but the "weird take" call begs the question of that being needed here.   Of course, every offense operates better when running with a lead and the clock on their side. But Devin Duvernay's 93 yd kickoff return excepted, in general passing is the way to move the ball and score more quickly.  Thus the current wisdom in the NFL is you can force a team out of their run game and into a pass-heavy attack if you build a substantial lead on them. 

 

The Bills old K-gun and the Rams "Greatest Show on Turf" were noted as quick strike attacks, able to come from behind and rack up points quickly.

 

All that said - the Ravens were never in so much of a hole that they weren't perfectly able to run the ball effectively.  The Chiefs led by between 3 and 10 points for most of the game - only at the end of the 2Q did they rack up a 3 score lead of 17 points and the Ravens got within 7 at the beginning of the 4Q

 

I don't know why so many are reacting as if the Chiefs put the Ravens in a 25 point hole that you'd expect no team to reasonably come back from

The Ravens were within a few catchable, but dropped or overthrown passes of being right in there.

 

 

 

 

 

[stinky finger]

8 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Imagine not only saying this but actually believing it.

 

Bills fans would lose their minds if Allen has a bad game and people start saying “See! I told you he wasn’t that good!”

 

One game isn’t the end all be all.

 

Agreed - though one can project.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

2 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Lamar is a good QB in my opinion.  He's a bit different but good none the less.  He has improved as a passer every year.

I don't believe he will be the passer that Allen and Mahomes are but he will have a good career.

 

With that being said.  He should not have got the MVP last season because he had games like this so leave the MVP talk out of it.

So Allen is in the same class as Mahomes but Lamar is not?   Over three games?   I get there are differences but come on.   You decide to take the mvp out of it why?    

[formerlyofCtown]

9 minutes ago, mattynh said:

So Allen is in the same class as Mahomes but Lamar is not?   Over three games?   I get there are differences but come on.   You decide to take the mvp out of it why?    

So far this season as a passer, yes.  If you read my other post I do put a disclaimer in there.  You can't say at any point in any season that Lamar has looked to be in the same league as Mahomes.  That just isn't who he is.  They will likely never have the rushing yards he will.  He is a different kind of QB.

Because the MVP should have gone to Wilson.  You can't have a 145 yard 1TD and 3 Int game and others like that as well as costing your team a playoff game and be the MVP.  IMO.  If you took those games like the one he just played away from last season I would agree he was the undisputed MVP but you can't take those away.

[stinky finger]

8 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

The blueprint to "contain" Lamar Jackson is fairly straight forward but often too difficult.  It starts with run defense up the middle and edge discipline to try and keep Lamar in the pocket.  If the RBs gash the middle, it's gonna be a long day.  If Lamar can get the edge it's gonna be a long day.  He's so damn fast that you think they have a line on them but he still gets the edge and turns the corner for a big gain.  The other part is to control their TEs in play action which is easier said than done because if the LBs are being sucked up to stop the run, the TEs will have more space.  Therefore, the goal is to stop the run up the middle, control the edge, control the TEs, and force him to throw to the edge.  

 

Baltimore panicked last night and felt they had to get into a shootout.  If they would have stuck with what their strength is, they might have had a better chance.  

 

Panicked? Why did they kick a FG on the first drive from the 3 yard line?

 

HC blunder imo. Have to go for it there. 

[Max Fischer]

Let's check in at the end of the year. 

[BillsFan130]

10 hours ago, bmur66 said:

Lamar Jackson? Meh.

On another note, Buffalo Bills vs. Kansas City Chiefs is going to be a heck of a game

Hopefully. If Bills defence plays like they have the past few weeks then it’s going to be ugly really fast lol

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Excuse me for going all basics, but the "weird take" call begs the question of that being needed here.   Of course, every offense operates better when running with a lead and the clock on their side. But Devin Duvernay's 93 yd kickoff return excepted, in general passing is the way to move the ball and score more quickly.  Thus the current wisdom in the NFL is you can force a team out of their run game and into a pass-heavy attack if you build a substantial lead on them. 

 

The Bills old K-gun and the Rams "Greatest Show on Turf" were noted as quick strike attacks, able to come from behind and rack up points quickly.

 

All that said - the Ravens were never in so much of a hole that they weren't perfectly able to run the ball effectively.  The Chiefs led by between 3 and 10 points for most of the game - only at the end of the 2Q did they rack up a 3 score lead of 17 points and the Ravens got within 7 at the beginning of the 4Q

 

I don't know why so many are reacting as if the Chiefs put the Ravens in a 25 point hole that you'd expect no team to reasonably come back from

The Ravens were within a few catchable, but dropped or overthrown passes of being right in there.

 

 

 

Agree which made Roman getting away from the run even stranger. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

20 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Panicked? Why did they kick a FG on the first drive from the 3 yard line?

 

HC blunder imo. Have to go for it there. 

 

I got you, but what I am saying is they drove down there pretty much at ease doing what they do.  But once KC scored 14, I feel they went into "trying to keep up mode" instead of doing what they best in heavy running and play action.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

I got you, but what I am saying is they drove down there pretty much at ease doing what they do.  But once KC scored 14, I feel they went into "trying to keep up mode" instead of doing what they best in heavy running and play action.

 

Agree. Despite the game never being totally out of control the Ravens ran their 3 headed monster a total of 12 times. Lamar didn't have a good night but Greg Roman might have had a worse one.

[stinky finger]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree. Despite the game never being totally out of control the Ravens ran their 3 headed monster a total of 12 times. Lamar didn't have a good night but Greg Roman might have had a worse one.

 

Harbaugh needed to set the tone on that first drive. 

 

Can't help but think his players were scratching theirs heads as well. Disappointing if not somewhat deflating.