The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[Shaw66]

I've said since the beginning of the year that I'm not buying the Lamar Jackson hype, and I'm not buying the Kyler Murray hype, either.   I know they are really special athletes, and they're a couple of the best running backs in the league, but they limit their offenses.  

 

The problem with Jackson is related to something McDermott (and plenty of other coaches) say all the time:  You have to force the opponent to defend the entire field - sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to the goal line.  The reason is simple:  If you can threaten to strike anyplace on the field, the defense has to spread out to defend all those places.  When the defense spreads out, they create holes for the offense to attack. 

 

You could see the problem almost immediately last night.  One on side of the ball was a team, the Chiefs, that is perhaps the best in the league at attacking the whole field.  They will hurt you anyplace you leave unprotected.  The Ravens started out playing the game no more than 30 yards downfield, and as the game progress, they didn't even threaten that deep.  The defense tightened and tightened.  Sure, Jackson kept getting himself some nice runs here and there, but they essentially give up the ability to get 100-200 passing downfield to get an extra 50 or 100 out of Jackson.  That's a bad trade.  

 

The other thing that was apparent is that to be a premier QB, you MUST be able to stand in the pocket and direct the attack.  You can't run an effective, all-over-the-field passing attack from outside the hash marks.  Why?  Because you can't threaten deep passes down the right side if your QB is standing outside the left hashmark.  (Well, you can if your QB is Josh Allen, but that's something else.)   Your QB has to be able to stand in, see the entire field, make decisions, and then make throws.   Jackson couldn't do that last night.  If he's going to make it, he has a lot of work to do as a pocket passer.   But even that may not be enough, because if you're going to feature your QB running the ball, you need your receiver to stay shallow to block for him.  So in your regular offense, your receivers aren't running deep routes, so the deep threat isn't there.  

 

It was all pretty obvious watching last night.   Mahomes stands in the pocket, makes decisions and makes throws.   Jackson doesn't.  Jackson will not be a premier QB if he doesn't learn to play that traditional QB game.  He's way, way behind Josh Allen in developing those skills.  Allen plays much more like Mahomes than like Jackson.  McBeane have always said he was going to be a pocket passer.  They've been working on making him one since he arrived in Buffalo.  Baltimore went down the other road, building an offense that plays to Jackson's strengths, but that is an offense that by definition is limited.  I think they're wasting their time.   Jackson will hurt some teams sometimes, he'll force your defense to play a different style than their used to, but at the end of the season, Baltimore's offense will limit their ability to win big games.  

 

Finally, to bring it back to Allen and the Bills, Mahomes wasn't doing anything last night that Allen doesn't do.  Allen has the better arm, clearly, Mahomes is more poised and more able to attack weaknesses consistently - that's clear too.  What's so encouraging is that Allen can learn to be a great field general, but good as Mahomes arm is, he can't learn to throw like Josh.  

 

Bills are heading down the right road. 

 

 

 

 

[Halloween Land]

Yeah the buzz will be about Allen vs Mahomes instead of Jackson vs Mahomes. Jackson is just an average thrower with limitations. 

[Bills fan since 87]

Excellent analysis,  I've been telling my friends this for a bit but not in so many well put words.

[Coach Tuesday]

The Ravens’ offense just isn’t designed to play from behind.  They can’t score a ton of points in a hurry, that’s not how they’re built.  Once they got in a hole last night it was all but over.

[TroutDog]

I agree, @Shaw66  I thought we did a fairly good job of holding Jackson back last year. It appeared to me, at the time, that the blueprint was now out there for all to see. 
 

He will definitely have his moments, but I’m taking Josh all day long and twice on Sunday. That’s not just my standard homer talk, either. 😃 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Eh. I would be pissed if JA had a clunker and the rest of the league said, see! I told you he wasn't any good! I don't think we should do the same to LJ. 

 

Tonight seemed as much about LJ having an off night as anything. 

[Da webster guy]

35 yards passing at the end of the 1st half.  Yikes.

In fairness to Lamar, he doesn't have the kind of weapons we have or KC has.  

Josh TD to Diggs Sunday was a Lamar type throw with that wrist flick. He didnt have time or the space to wind up so he just whipped that forearm.  Awesome.

 

 

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Edited September 29, 2020 by Da webster guy

[TheElectricCompany]

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".

 

Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earning a seat. Both of these things can exist simultaneously.

 

Frankly, I find this take to be garbage. "The end of an era" because the MVP had one bad game?  Get outta here...

 

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

Edited September 29, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[BillsVet]

I'll give the league's 2019 MVP more than 1 game to demonstrate he can no longer be dynamic. 

 

Josh is the better passer of the football right now and may always be.  What is funny are the people who pronounce something is so with regard to players, league trends after one or a handful of games.  It takes a much bigger sample size to identify what is happening across the NFL or how a young player does or does not progress.

[Golden Goat]

4 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

In fairness to Lamar, he doesn't have the kind of weapons we have or KC has.  

How good did it feel to type that? Was it weird? 

[LeviF]

ESPN: "iS tHIs tH3 neW bRAdY v mANniNG?

 

Chiefs: "lol no"

 

That said, Lamar is a phenomenal athlete and made the Chiefs D look like a pop warner squad with his legs at times last night.  And had a pretty nice TD pass.  Ravens O was just not in that game at all, Lamar included.  Takes more than one game to convince me that a league MVP has departed.

Edited September 29, 2020 by LeviF91

[H2o]

I was watching Mahomes last night and you see the things he does that separates him from Allen. When he runs he doesn't take hits. He slides or he gets out of bounds. When a play is busted he will throw the ball away and live to fight another down. A lot of the throws Allen is making this year is just like Mahomes, but he needs to preserve himself by not taking the hits when he can and throw the ball away when necessary because it's not the end of the world. This will be the next step in the maturation of Allen. 

 

On Lamar? He will be a QB in Baltimore for as long as his body holds up and as long as Roman is the OC. He will put up gaudy numbers at times. The fact of the matter remains the same, make him beat you with his arm by having to stay contained and forcing him to throw outside the numbers. He can't right now. Let him run and get some yards on the ground. It's not going to beat the good teams. Pressure him and force him to make quick reads while stepping up into the pocket. He can't beat you that way right now. Keep him from scrambling to his right because that's where most of his improvisational throws come from. We did a good job of containing him last year outside of the one busted coverage where Hurst got the TD. The Titans forced him to try to comeback using his arm and he faltered. The Chiefs last night followed a similar blueprint. Even with all of that, I still see Lamar and Josh as head and shoulders above the rest as the top 2 QB's from that draft class. They are definitely the two most exciting as well.  

[blitzboy54]

Holy Hell this is nonsense. He was the league MVP last year. He had one bad game and its the "end of an era"???  Maybe you're right but it's too early to make that kind of statement. My guess is you have been waiting for an opportunity to proclaim this and jumped at the first chance.  This post gets a giant eye roll.  Your stuff is usually excellent but yikes

Edited September 29, 2020 by blitzboy54

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, H2o said:

I was watching Mahomes last night and you see the things he does that separates him from Allen. When he runs he doesn't take hits. He slides or he gets out of bounds. When a play is busted he will throw the ball away and live to fight another down. A lot of the throws Allen is making this year is just like Mahomes, but he needs to preserve himself by not taking the hits when he can and throw the ball away when necessary because it's not the end of the world. This will be the next step in the maturation of Allen. 

 

On Lamar? He will be a QB in Baltimore for as long as his body holds up and as long as Roman is the OC. He will put up gaudy numbers at times. The fact of the matter remains the same, make him beat you with his arm by having to stay contained and forcing him to throw outside the numbers. He can't right now. Let him run and get some yards on the ground. It's not going to beat the good teams. Pressure him and force him to make quick reads while stepping up into the pocket. He can't beat you that way right now. Keep him from scrambling to his right because that's where most of his improvisational throws come from. We did a good job of containing him last year outside of the one busted coverage where Hurst got the TD. The Titans forced him to try to comeback using his arm and he faltered. The Chiefs last night followed a similar blueprint. Even with all of that, I still see Lamar and Josh as head and shoulders above the rest as the top 2 QB's from that draft class. They are definitely the two most exciting as well.  

 

So this is a still a thing, huh? I would have thought this would have gone away after Twitter just decimated this argument for the first two weeks of the season. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, TheElectricCompany said:

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".

Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earning a seat. Both of these things can exist simultaneously.

Frankly, I find this take to be garbage and won't respond further. "The end of an era" because the MVP had one bad game?  Get outta here...

Shaw - you come for the king, don't miss.

 

Tend to agree.  There were a few drops that were drive killers, and his overall pocket presence at the end of the game was just... panic.  

 

The big thing that I noticed was after those drops? He's hanging his head, his body language is poor.  I understand being on the field expecting greatness, but you have to exude confidence as a QB - a true field general.  Cam Newton to me is a good example of this - he had his MVP campaign and honestly became a bit of a diva.   

[Numark3]

Agree with Jackson.  Disagree with Murray....he can actually throw the ball well

[ALLEN1QB]

I never bought into the Jackson hype way over rated. I do think that kid the Chargers have is going to be special. Reminds me so much of JA.

Edited September 29, 2020 by ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!!

[scribo]

Lamar Jackson's big tests this season will come against the Steelers. Can a division team solve him? If so, he's moving back into the pack. If Pitt cannot, the Raven's only division rival, then Jackson is going to stay in the limelight.

Edited September 29, 2020 by scribo

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Crayola64 said:

Agree with Jackson.  Disagree with Murray....he can actually throw the ball well

Agree with this take.

 

[H2o]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

So this is a still a thing, huh? I would have thought this would have gone away after Twitter just decimated this argument for the first two weeks of the season. 

Yep, still a thing if you actually watch him play. I know I've watched him play and he has been very, VERY, fortunate at times.