A Few Thoughts About the Rams Game, in no particular order

[Warcodered]

Just now, Rochesterfan said:

 

I will defer completely until I can see the All-22, but I believe the Rams made a change to Donald that threw the Bills off.  Early in the game he was attacking from DT or occasionally DE and moving straight ahead.  The Bills guards (mostly) stopped the initial surge and then they got help - Morse or Kroft or Tackle or even RB to slow him down.  Plus they ran quick hitters into the gap he would create - getting some running lanes.

 

Late in the game - when Donald took over - they lined him up at DE on Williams with the DE inside.  They then ran stunt after stunt - with Donald looping to the inside on Winters.  This gave Donald leverage on Winters and allowed him to just throw Winters out of the way and made it difficult to set up double teams.

 

I think Winters really struggled with the speed and power (as almost anyone would) and the Bills couldn’t seem to counter the loop.  Not sure I totally blame Winters, but it was the guy attacking him a bunch.

[Billsfan1972]

24 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is technically the reason they allow the collar tackles in the pocket.  Unlike out in the field where the defensive guys have the ability to tackle anyplace - including getting  pieces of the helmet.  In the pocket they try to limit the zone of hitting.  
 

You have to be below the helmet and above the knees and thigh area.  Typically a tackle like Donald’s get called for roughing because as they grab up high they contact the head area (as we see here).

 

How they did not call roughing with the way he grabbed and threw him down - I will never understand - plus live you could see initial contact was in the helmet and then on replay.  Huge missed call.

The reason it is a penalty is that it is a dangerous play.  Whether pocket or not, to carve it out makes absolutely no sense.  I too saw the facemask but no real replays.  

[cage]

6 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

This right here. I’m really confused at how he came on the broadcast and explained it and yet nobody refers to that statement and the media is running rampant with it being a 100% bogus call. Could it have gone uncalled? Sure. Was it technically an okay call? YES. 

 

While its a tough call, this type of PI call happens nearly every week in various games.  Its happened to the Bills before.  The only difference is the game isn't typically on the line.  Makes little difference whether its PI or Illegal Use of Hands.  The result would have been first down with Allen in business.  I would imagine with the same result finishing the game.

[Kwai San]

As always @Virgil and excellent review.  Bill from NYC is beaming.  The torch has been passed well.  I was a bit worried when I didn't see your post yesterday.

 

I dang near lost 5 years of my life during that 4th quarter.  The missed calls, the Rams rolling, the Bills reeling and then JA.  Unfreaking REAL JA!!  My lordy....unreal, just unreal.  I am with you - that young man is the Bills QB for a long time to come.  AMAZEBALLS the Bills snagged him, amazing the dude puts in the work he does and he is fortunate that the brain trust is surrounding him with great players and setting his up to be successful.  Another coupla O-Line guys would make life easier tho!!!

 

Go BILLS Indeed!!!

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The reason it is a penalty is that it is a dangerous play.  Whether pocket or not, to carve it out makes absolutely no sense.  I too saw the facemask but no real replays.  

 

The reason the Horsecollar is so dangerous is typically with a guy running you are grabbing and then throwing your body across the back of their legs.

 

I believe the NFL felt in the pocket - the chance of a guy falling across the back of the legs is less and that typically it will happen rarely and the QB will be just planted down.  I think they feel it is much less dangerous in that small area with out the QB running.

 

Obviously when a man like Donald gets ahold of you and twists and flings - it is dangerous, but then the Refs should call the roughing call for the tackle - not the horsecollar.  He should have gotten flagged for hitting Allen in the face and for the way he threw him down. 
 

I understand it seems strange to carve it out, but my guess is the QBs have other protections - so inherently they felt it was less of an issue.  We can agree or not, but it is the rules - where he grabbed him (after hitting him in the face) was not the issue.  The throw down and hitting Allen in the face and tugging on the face mask - all should have been penalized as I am sure Allen politely pointed out to the Ref.

[Virgil]

48 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

As always @Virgil and excellent review.  Bill from NYC is beaming.  The torch has been passed well.  I was a bit worried when I didn't see your post yesterday.

 

I dang near lost 5 years of my life during that 4th quarter.  The missed calls, the Rams rolling, the Bills reeling and then JA.  Unfreaking REAL JA!!  My lordy....unreal, just unreal.  I am with you - that young man is the Bills QB for a long time to come.  AMAZEBALLS the Bills snagged him, amazing the dude puts in the work he does and he is fortunate that the brain trust is surrounding him with great players and setting his up to be successful.  Another coupla O-Line guys would make life easier tho!!!

 

Go BILLS Indeed!!!

Props for the proper use of “Amazeballs”

[Coach Tuesday]

Disagree with you about o-line play - fourth quarter seemed like a jailbreak on nearly every play.  

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve scanned through most of the comments. That play is definitely pass interference. Shaw has it right. It becomes pass interference when the ball is already in the air when the contact is occurring. But....If the pass wasn’t thrown to Davis it probably wouldn’t have been called at all. The fact that ball was right there draws attention to the contact in that short window. I see no controversy in it at all. That’s just the rules of the sport. And remember it didn’t result in any points on the scoreboard! The Bills still had to complete the pass to the TE to get the win. We’ve seen countless games where we’ve missed that touchdown catch and walked away with ‘maybe next time’. 

[Virgil]

16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Disagree with you about o-line play - fourth quarter seemed like a jailbreak on nearly every play.  

 

How dare you?! 

 

But to be fair, I was in a very unique mental state in the 4th quarter.  I stopped taking notes and decided to just glare at the TV

[thenorthremembers]

 

1 - Milano/Edmunds - Like most of the things I'm going to talk about, this is a story of two halves.  Milano showed us exactly what this defense missed against the Dolphins in the prior week.  He was playing fast, sideline to sideline in coverage (blew up a screen play perfectly), and also did a great job picking an open lane for an early sack; which led to a longer miss field goal.  My notes to myself were literally "find a way to pay this man."  Edmunds played about 5 yards off the LOS and also showed good closing speed and hesitation to feel out the run/pass.  Both of them were in on most tackles and you could feel the defense elevate it's game with them on the field.  Then the second half kicked in...and I don't know if it was adjustments (more on this later), their injuries flaring up, or conditioning due to missing a week, but these guys (Edmunds more so) just looked gassed.  I was surprised how out of breath both of them looked just halfway through the 3rd quarter.  And as the Rams kept running the ball, Edmunds kept creeping up closer and closer to that line, to the points where he was useless if he lined up in the wrong slot.  How Edmunds ended up covering Woods on one of his big gains makes no sense to me.  The collapse was complete when Edmunds got absolutely bowled over on the goal line for a touchdown, not long after missing a tackle on Woods' first TD. 

I have said it over and over again with a ton of flack from board members, Milano is the better linebacker.  Edmunds is a physical freak who lacks instincts to play Inside Linebacker in the NFL.   I would rather they pay Milano over Edmunds, one is an impact player and the other is a 1st round pick the Bills keep telling us is great, he isnt.   I dont care if he 22 or 32, he is being played out of position.  He isnt a middle linebacker, and is probably better suited outside or as an edge rusher in a 3-4. 

 

 

 

3 - Beasley - If Davis was the MVP of the first half, Beasley was the MVP of the second.  It's been easy to forget about Beasley in the first few weeks with Josh, Diggs, and Smoke just running circles around everyone.  But when it mattered most on a crucial 3rd and long, Beasley came up clutch finding a spot in the open zone and just getting his body past the down marker.  Beasley quietly had a 100 yard game and really reminded us how he's the bailout option for Allen as everything comes crashing down around him.  Just a clutch game from a guy who has accepted his role as the number 3 and watches the rookie slowly eat away at his snap count.  Good on you Beasley, you are still very appreciated and part of this offense.

His catch ratio is 75% right now, just incredible.   The narrative about him is he wont be targeted alot because he is third in line, but he is on pace for 80 receptions and 1206 yards, he is a 3rd wideout in name only.   Love how he goes about his business, dont care if my wife thinks his hair is stupid.

 

 

6 - Secondary - I'm really not sure how to evaluate the secondary in this game and am waiting on the All-22 review to validate some of my suspicions.  But, in watching a lot of the replays, I'm not convinced this unit was put in the best position to win.  To start with the positives, Johnson had a strong showing in his first game back with some solid open field tackles while Wallace got himself an Int.  However, in the second half and against a team that you know can't be held down offensively for long, Woods and Cupp began to eat.  Yes, the run game for the Rams was strong enough that made their play action that much more efficient (also more on this later).  However, on multiple 3rd and long plays for the Rams, I saw the Bills line up in the exact same zone formation defense that made absolutely zero sense to me.  Tre would be on the weak side, pressed at the line, where none of the receivers were lined up.  Wallace would be on the other side showing a large cushion.  In each of these plays, the Rams would run some kind of slow crossing route that lost the coverage in the middle of the field, leaving them fairly wide open for big gains.  On the last TD, which looked like White got beat, watch it again and see that Tre was actually the only player to recognize the play and try to adapt to it.  But with that....

This is the only point of disagreement I have with you.  I thought Johnson looked lost, at times especially on misdirection.   I am pretty sure he was benched at one point in this game.

 

 

Misc Thoughts:

-Is Poyer the MVP of the defense so far?

Yes, he is.   Best player on the defense by far right now.  Being all over the field has made up for a lot of other player's mistakes.  He has been a great player for us.

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The reason the Horsecollar is so dangerous is typically with a guy running you are grabbing and then throwing your body across the back of their legs.

 

I believe the NFL felt in the pocket - the chance of a guy falling across the back of the legs is less and that typically it will happen rarely and the QB will be just planted down.  I think they feel it is much less dangerous in that small area with out the QB running.

 

Obviously when a man like Donald gets ahold of you and twists and flings - it is dangerous, but then the Refs should call the roughing call for the tackle - not the horsecollar.  He should have gotten flagged for hitting Allen in the face and for the way he threw him down. 
 

I understand it seems strange to carve it out, but my guess is the QBs have other protections - so inherently they felt it was less of an issue.  We can agree or not, but it is the rules - where he grabbed him (after hitting him in the face) was not the issue.  The throw down and hitting Allen in the face and tugging on the face mask - all should have been penalized as I am sure Allen politely pointed out to the Ref.

 

I think the danger with horse collar tackles is less about the defender falling across the back of the legs, and more to do with how a person crumples when they are tackled that way (both are dangerous though). 

 

 

In that video the defender doesn't touch TO's legs. His body crumples and he blows out his knee. 

 

For the play in the Bills game, I think if that same play happens and the defender isn't named "Donald", or the QB isn't named "Allen", they would call it roughing. 

[TBBills Fan]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

I saw a tweet where someone was saying Winters was terrible and this was game was an example of why the Jets let him go.  
 

I didn’t see it, but maybe something the All22 will reveal.  Unless he was somehow single handed my responsible for the pressure they got on Allen in those two drives, I don’t get what the comment was about. 

 

I am no expert, but as a fan who hangs on every play, I did notice Winters and not in a good way it looked like he was getting smoked each time I noticed him..in fact I said to myself who tf is this guy and why tf is he out there.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

My suggestion to the coaches, get your best five guys out there! We'll see what they say about it 🤪

 

LT - Nsekhe, LG - Ford, C - Morse, RG - Dawkins, RT - Williams

 

The problem with Nsekhe is that he's 35 and has to manage his knees.  I think he's a great, great swing tackle backup.  I'm not so sure he can hold up as a starter at this point.

 

And MAN!  What is it with people who decide someone who has played at a high level and just got paid at LT should totally change position to the other side of the line and guard?

 

Obviously the Bills in no way agree with your perception.  We didn't just extend Dawkins and pay him as a LT so we could switch him to RG.  Just No.

[Buftex]

After watching the MNF game, I was struck by how Sammy Watkins has become the Cole Beasley of the Chiefs.

[fergie's ire]

VIRGIL!!

[IgotBILLStopay]

14 hours ago, Virgil said:

Sorry again for the delay everyone.  I didn't even get to all of my notes  There was just so much to this game.  But here's my final thought:  If a perennial winning team was to walk away with this win, no one would really talk about the blown lead, they would instead talk about how they found a way to get it done.  This is a game that a non-McD team would have lost.  This is a game that brought up all those 20 year drought feelings. But that's the thing, we aren't that team anymore.  Allen won't let us be.  This is how you know we've made that leap.  We're 3-0 and there isn't a game on this schedule, no matter how hard it looks, that we don't have a legit opportunity to win.  Yes, they will study the film and I have full confidence that McD will step in where he needs to and address the defense.  Daboll and this offense can just keep doing what they are doing.  This was a great win.  There is no asterisks.  There is no "buts".  It was a great win by a 3-0 team heading to Vegas next week.

 

Go Bills!!!!

Thanks. Excellent piece. Was worth the wait. You were maybe a bit too kind to the Defense there. But I agree one can be magnanimous when coming off a win.

[WideNine]

9 hours ago, GreggTX said:

I guess I'm not the only one that thinks McDermott should start calling the plays for our defense. Chan seemed to know what our defense was going to do more often than not and Frazier fared no better against LA. We'd better get that sorted out quickly. Our DT's aren't helping much either. Oliver has only 6 tackles so far. He can't do it alone and our offseason FA acquisitions don't impress me.

 

Star took a lot of heat last year, but if you watched the all-22 after games you would have seen what the coaches were seeing and that was a DT that could anchor and not give up lot of ground. He drew a lot of attention and double-teams and made the players around him better.

 

Now there are folks that wanted to see a penetrating nose kind of tackle,  but in McDs 4-man front that emphasizes lane discipline I don't think he is looking for a hero who will take himself out of his gap with a swim move, just a player doing his 1/11th.

 

They miss him.

 

All that being said, this team and Oliver would get a face-lift if they could find an impact big-bodied DT who could not only hold his ground, but push the pocket.

 

The best Frazier could say is that they would trust in their rotation to get it done...what else can he say?

 

I have been harsh with our defense, but in all honesty most of them are busting their hump. They are close, a few tweaks and better players and they could turn the corner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

8 hours ago, Virgil said:

I saw a tweet where someone was saying Winters was terrible and this was game was an example of why the Jets let him go.  
 

I didn’t see it, but maybe something the All22 will reveal.  Unless he was somehow single handed my responsible for the pressure they got on Allen in those two drives, I don’t get what the comment was about. 

I suppose it’s certainly possible. I was never really keyed in to Winters specifically. I just noticed that Allen had adequate protection for most of the game, with the exception of parts of the fourth quarter when Donald was playing with a fury. Truly, that guy looked like an angry grizzly in the fourth quarter, and if the biggest knock on Winters is that he occasionally got owned by Aaron Donald, we perhaps shouldn’t complain too much. 
 

But you’re right, there may certainly be things I missed. Really, as it was his first start as a Bill, in an already gelled unit, I would expect him to be the weakest link.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2020/9/29/21492762/penalty-recap-los-angeles-rams-at-buffalo-bills

 

Penalty recap

[Rocky Landing]

7 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

My suggestion to the coaches, get your best five guys out there! We'll see what they say about it 🤪

 

LT - Nsekhe, LG - Ford, C - Morse, RG - Dawkins, RT - Williams

Nsekhe is a great rotational player, but I question if he has the speed for run downs. Certainly he doesn’t have the speed of Dawkins, nor the stamina. I also wouldn’t write off Spain just yet. Maybe I missed it, but I haven’t heard a complete or authoritative explanation yet for his benching. For all I know, it may have been a matchup concern with Donald, but I do trust this coaching staff. I think if you were actually standing in front of them with your “suggestion,” their answer would be: “What the hell do you think we’ve been doing?”