Charles Barkley on Breonna Taylor

[BillStime]

14 hours ago, DFT said:

Also...

 

 

Hello,

 

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Also...

 

[meazza]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Just don’t expect me to pay for their sorry ass because they’re too ***** up to take care of themselves. Therein lies the problem. 

You’ll pay for it anyway. Does policing actually make a difference ?

Pretty sure that obesity is a bigger cost.

Edited September 26, 2020 by meazza

[BillsToast]

16 hours ago, Tiberius said:

So he was standing his ground against intruders to his place. Stand your ground, home is your castle...I can see the opposite reaction is the people were different 

 

And you're the party against using guns at home. What a joke hahahahhaa

[Alaska Darin]

4 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Just don’t expect me to pay for their sorry ass because they’re too ***** up to take care of themselves. Therein lies the problem. 

According to a couple studies,  the cost of care for addicts would be significantly less than the costs we currently pay for law enforcement and incarceration.

 

Drugs won the War on Drugs a long time ago.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

Curtis Hill: Black Kentucky AG wrongly attacked by other Blacks for not charging cops in Breonna Taylor death

Cameron is one of only two Black Republican state attorneys general in the U.S. I am the other.

By Curtis Hill | Fox News

 

A co-founder of Black Lives Matter has absurdly compared Daniel Cameron — Kentucky’s first Black attorney general — to the infamous White supremacist Bull Connor, following Cameron’s announcement Wednesday that no police officers will be prosecuted for the shooting death of Breonna Taylor, a 26-year-old Black emergency medical technician.

Cameron announced that a grand jury determined that two police officers were justified in firing their guns in Taylor’s apartment March 13 because Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them first after officers used a battering ram to force their way into the apartment during a drug investigation. Tragically and inadvertently, one of the officers fatally wounded Taylor, authorities concluded.

Cameron is one of only two Black Republican state attorneys general in the U.S. I am the other. Comparing him to Bull Connor is an insult that makes no sense and is disconnected from reality.

 

Bull Connor was public safety commissioner in Birmingham, Ala., from 1957 to 1963, and was a staunch segregationist with ties to the Ku Klux Klan. He ordered police to use dogs and firehoses against peaceful civil rights demonstrators, and allowed KKK members to beat freedom riders — who sought an end to segregation — before police officers belatedly responded to the scene.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/breonna-taylor-killing-no-charges-curtis-hill

 

 

[SectionC3]

9 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

 

It's possible Breonna and BF didn't know it was police.  However, that doesn't change that BF fired at cops and cops fired back to defend themselves.  It may well be an unfortunate accident initiated by BF. 

No argument there.  But not an issue if not executed in the middle of the night. 

[SectionC3]

8 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Again, from the NYT Magazine article - the most thorough investigation out there - there absolutely was probable cause to search Breonna's apartment. There's no indication that anything was false in the application for a warrant, and the judge signed off on it. The fact that (as far as we know) nothing was found there related to the drug trade doesn't mean there was a lack of probable cause. And after Breonna was tragically killed, her ex is on recorded phone calls from jail talking about getting bail money from (IIRC) $8,000 that was in Breonna's apartment.

NONE of this is meant to justify the way in which the warrant was executed nor the shoot-out that ensued. There was clearly some poor police work on that front after the warrant was issued. But it is important to know the facts surrounding this whole matter, because those facts help explain what happened, what went wrong, and how police can avoid this type of thing happening again.

Probable cause is a very low bar (supports your point), very easy to gin up (supports my point), and extremely difficult to challenge after the fact (reality that may need to change). 

[Chef Jim]

8 hours ago, meazza said:

You’ll pay for it anyway. Does policing actually make a difference ?

Pretty sure that obesity is a bigger cost.

 

Policing is not the issue it's the legality.  You know for a FACT that if drugs were legalized a LOT more people would be using that do not now use because it's illegal.  Hell how many of us have not even smoked pot in the past because our firms drug test.  I was the Chef of a restaurant and they drug tested the team.  Are you ***** kidding me?  

 

Of course obesity is a huge cost to society.  But you can't outlaw food.  Well you can try. Bezerkely just disallowed stores to sell junk food at the check out.  So now if you want a Mars Bar you have to go find it. 

 

If we outlawed stupidity we'd all be in a much better place.  

[Chef Jim]

5 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

According to a couple studies,  the cost of care for addicts would be significantly less than the costs we currently pay for law enforcement and incarceration.

 

Drugs won the War on Drugs a long time ago.

 

That a good point but that cost is for the addicts who get care. How many will not seek care? How many will become homeless?  Not saying homelessness is a major cost but is a cost.  It's also blight and a huge health issue.  It's a concern.  Do we then scoop them up and force them into treatment?  I think it's safe to say that along with mental illness and alcohol abuse the biggest cause of homelessness is drug addiction.  And how many of those released from incarceration will have nowhere to go?  How many of them will end up on the streets?  Of course it's a VERY complicated issue and why we, as a society, have turned a blind's eye to it. 

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

That a good point but that cost is for the addicts who get care. How many will not seek care? How many will become homeless?  Not saying homelessness is a major cost but is a cost.  It's also blight and a huge health issue.  It's a concern.  Do we then scoop them up and force them into treatment?  I think it's safe to say that along with mental illness and alcohol abuse the biggest cause of homelessness is drug addiction.  And how many of those released from incarceration will have nowhere to go?  How many of them will end up on the streets?  Of course it's a VERY complicated issue and why we, as a society, have turned a blind's eye to it. 

 

 

The stuff I've read about places that have legalized shows the percentage of "abuse" doesn't change much,  so the downstream effects aren't significantly different.   I will grant that these studies don't have decades of data, so some scepticism is earned but what we're doing now has all the things you're talking about with a ridiculous amount of senseless violence and more militaristic police.  

 

I just don't think we can keep doing this and expect any difference in results. 

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

The stuff I've read about places that have legalized shows the percentage of "abuse" doesn't change much,  so the downstream effects aren't significantly different.   I will grant that these studies don't have decades of data, so some scepticism is earned but what we're doing now has all the things you're talking about with a ridiculous amount of senseless violence and more militaristic police.  

 

I just don't think we can keep doing this and expect any difference in results. 

 

And yes I know places that have legalized drugs have not seen a spike in drug abuse.  I cannot deny these studies I just personally find it very hard to believe.  A TON of thought needs to be put into this of course.  We can't just legalize drugs and tell the population to "have at it!"  However asking our government to think before doing is a very scary notion. 

 

EDIT:  This thread has taken a turn.  That NEVER happens here.  LOL 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Chef Jim

[Alaska Darin]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

 

And yes I know places that have legalized drugs have not seen a spike in drug abuse.  I cannot deny these studies I just personally find it very hard to believe.  A TON of thought needs to be put into this of course.  We can't just legalize drugs and tell the population to "have at it!"  However asking our government to think before doing is a very scary notion. 

No argument there.

[snafu]

5 hours ago, Alaska Darin said:

According to a couple studies,  the cost of care for addicts would be significantly less than the costs we currently pay for law enforcement and incarceration.

 

Drugs won the War on Drugs a long time ago.

 

Yes, some time ago, I suggested legalizing everything and capitalizing on the profits from the market (like states do now with pot).  Saves law enforcement dollars and makes money for treatment. I got a lot of replies telling me that’s a bad idea.  The war on drugs may be our longest and probably most costly war. 

 

 

[Alaska Darin]

1 minute ago, snafu said:

 

Yes, some time ago, I suggested legalizing everything and capitalizing on the profits from the market (like states do now with pot).  Saves law enforcement dollars and makes money for treatment. I got a lot of replies telling me that’s a bad idea.  The war on drugs may be our longest and probably most costly war. 

 

 

Democrats aren't the only ones who love status quo.  Conservatives have plenty of their own demons they refuse to face. 

[snafu]

5 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Democrats aren't the only ones who love status quo.  Conservatives have plenty of their own demons they refuse to face. 

 

Human nature to resist change. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Human nature to resist change. 

 

When it's the only constant. The issue is that when politicians are involved the change often is suggested with zero or little thought regarding the long term ramifications of the change. 

 

The infamous "we have to pass it to see what's in it" sticks out in my mind.  

Edited September 26, 2020 by Chef Jim

[Alaska Darin]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

When it's the only constant. The issue is that when politicians are involved the change often is suggested with zero or little thought regarding the long term ramifications of the change. 

No argument there.

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

No argument there.

 

Stop harshing my PPP buzz.  

[snafu]

16 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

When it's the only constant. The issue is that when politicians are involved the change often is suggested with zero or little thought regarding the long term ramifications of the change. 

 

The infamous "we have to pass it to see what's in it" sticks out in my mind.  

 

 

I agree.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

No argument there.

 

9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Stop harshing my PPP buzz.  

 

Oh, then I disagree and you are a complete dumbass.

 

 

[meazza]

48 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And yes I know places that have legalized drugs have not seen a spike in drug abuse.  I cannot deny these studies I just personally find it very hard to believe.  A TON of thought needs to be put into this of course.  We can't just legalize drugs and tell the population to "have at it!"  However asking our government to think before doing is a very scary notion. 

 

EDIT:  This thread has taken a turn.  That NEVER happens here.  LOL 

 

I'm not sure that someone will all of a sudden snort cocaine based on the fact that it's legal.  If you were doing blow off a hookers ass before it was legal, chances are you'll do the same after.  

 

Portugal is an excellent example of how most drugs were decriminalized and the approach was to help users rather than incarcerate them.  

 

PS: This thread may have gotten off topic but this is the real discussion we should all be having as it is the root cause of these kinds of incidents.

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by meazza