So many good young qbs in the NFL right now

[machine gun kelly]

On 9/24/2020 at 10:02 AM, mannc said:

I hate to say it, but based on his performance Sunday night, I’d have to say Cam Newton is seriously underrated here.  It’s probably the best he’s played since his MVP season, and i don’t think it’s a fluke.  He looks fully healthy and he’s finally being well-coached.  Looks to be an upgrade from Brady, unfortunately.

Mannc, I’m with you in that I didn’t expect Newton to be this good so early, but I also don’t think he makes it the whole year.  Did you see the contact he had week 1 with the Dolphins.  I’m not trashing him, just he’s 31 playing like he’s 25.  His body will break down if he keeps this up at some point.  I don’t wish ill of him as I never want to see guys get hurt, but if he wants to make it, he needs to slide, run out of bounds and use his legs like Wilson who is a master of being accurate and mobile.  He just is the best at avoiding hits.

 

I can see the love for Murray.  If you didn’t watch his full games, it may come across like he came out of nowhere.  My middle son loves the Cards (long story from when he was 7 and met Larry Fitz SB week in Tampa).  Bottom line is I watch all their games to talk to him about it, and he really is lighting it up.  Fitz is still Fitz, and Hopkins has catapulted this team.  I’m fine with Allen where he’s rated, but if he repeats a performance like the first two weeks (minus the fumbles) against the Rams, Raiders and Titans, he should be 5th.  He’s never going to be rated higher than Wilson, Mahomes, and Jackson as they are playing the best in the league.

[billsfan89]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mostly agree with this but think putting Jones in with Haskins and Trubisky is harsh. I wasn't a fan of Jones coming out and I am not by any means saying he has made it but he has showed a capacity to play the position at the NFL level beyond anything the other two have put on tape yet. He is closer to Jimmy G than Trubisky IMO.

 

I will believe Jones is better than he is when I see it. It is possible that the Giants have put him in a bad spot but overall I am not too impressed with what I have seen from him. I do not think he can drive the ball downfield needed for a full caliber NFL offense. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by billsfan89

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I will believe Jones is better than he is when I see it. It is possible that the Giants have put him in a bad spot but overall I am not too impressed with what I have seen from him. I do not think he can drive the ball downfield needed for a full caliber NFL offense. 

 

He has played some pretty good games. I remain a little skeptical but he doesn't deserve to be in a category with Haskins who has had one good game and Trubisky.

[billsfan89]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He has played some pretty good games. I remain a little skeptical but he doesn't deserve to be in a category with Haskins who has had one good game and Trubisky.

 

I haven't seen too much consistency from him. I am putting him in the unproven category right now which to me is right in there with Haskins and Trubisky. Jones is probably the best of the bunch but none of the three have done much in my mind. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I haven't seen too much consistency from him. I am putting him in the unproven category right now which to me is right in there with Haskins and Trubisky. Jones is probably the best of the bunch but none of the three have done much in my mind. 

 

I agree Jones is unproven. I think Trubisky and Haskins are proven. Just not in a good way.

[mannc]

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Mannc, I’m with you in that I didn’t expect Newton to be this good so early, but I also don’t think he makes it the whole year.  Did you see the contact he had week 1 with the Dolphins.  I’m not trashing him, just he’s 31 playing like he’s 25.  His body will break down if he keeps this up at some point.  I don’t wish ill of him as I never want to see guys get hurt, but if he wants to make it, he needs to slide, run out of bounds and use his legs like Wilson who is a master of being accurate and mobile.  He just is the best at avoiding hits.

 

I can see the love for Murray.  If you didn’t watch his full games, it may come across like he came out of nowhere.  My middle son loves the Cards (long story from when he was 7 and met Larry Fitz SB week in Tampa).  Bottom line is I watch all their games to talk to him about it, and he really is lighting it up.  Fitz is still Fitz, and Hopkins has catapulted this team.  I’m fine with Allen where he’s rated, but if he repeats a performance like the first two weeks (minus the fumbles) against the Rams, Raiders and Titans, he should be 5th.  He’s never going to be rated higher than Wilson, Mahomes, and Jackson as they are playing the best in the league.

I don’t think Newton is any more likely to get hurt than JA.  They have a similar running style and I think will be used in similar ways in their offenses.  Both have been so effective from the pocket, that I don’t expect to see either run very much except in the red zone.

 

Murphy reminds me of Flutie and R Wilson...he just never seems to take a hit.  As you point out, very different from Cam and JA, who seem to relish contact...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t think Newton is any more likely to get hurt than JA.  They have a similar running style and I think will be used in similar ways in their offenses.  Both have been so effective from the pocket, that I don’t expect to see either run very much except in the red zone.

 

Murphy reminds me of Flutie and R Wilson...he just never seems to take a hit.  As you point out, very different from Cam and JA, who seem to relish contact...

 

Newton is over 30.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I haven't seen too much consistency from him. I am putting him in the unproven category right now which to me is right in there with Haskins and Trubisky. Jones is probably the best of the bunch but none of the three have done much in my mind. 

 

He's inconsistent but his good games are not just good they are great. The other thing is the Giants are not babying him. He's thrown 40+ attempts in 7 out of his 14 career starts. And he's never throw less than 30 pass attempts in any of his 14 starts. 

 

Haskins on the other hand has never had 40 attempts in a game and has only had 3 games with over 30 pass attempts and none over 35.

[SirAndrew]

2 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I will believe Jones is better than he is when I see it. It is possible that the Giants have put him in a bad spot but overall I am not too impressed with what I have seen from him. I do not think he can drive the ball downfield needed for a full caliber NFL offense. 

The Giants are a poorly run franchise, and I just didn’t like the Daniel Jones pick from the beginning. Drafting an NFL QB is a total crapshoot based mostly on luck. However, I agree with your assessment that Jones is too limited. He doesn’t have the ceiling that great QB’s have. I think the best he could ever be is a mediocre starter. He’s not a guy I would have attempted to build a franchise around, but I suppose Barkley was that guy for the Giants in many ways,  because we all know you build a franchise around a RB. Barkley is an immense talent, but the Giants should have been drafting a QB when they picked Saquon. 

[Malazan]

7 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

This is certainly a part of the reason why scoring is way up. But overall QB play being way up? I'm not sure. I could see lack of crowd noise being just as big a factor. It's probably like going through practice for some of these guys. They are dialed in.

 

It's mostly holding penalties on the line that are drastically down right? Like 50%? That's certainly eliminating drive killing 2nd and long situations but QBs still have to make the throws to keep the chains moving.

 

I didn't say anything about QB play...I just said it's much more likely that the drop in penalties is much more likely to be the reason than lack of crowd noise. 

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

The Giants are a poorly run franchise, and I just didn’t like the Daniel Jones pick from the beginning. Drafting an NFL QB is a total crapshoot based mostly on luck. However, I agree with your assessment that Jones is too limited. He doesn’t have the ceiling that great QB’s have. I think the best he could ever be is a mediocre starter. He’s not a guy I would have attempted to build a franchise around, but I suppose Barkley was that guy for the Giants in many ways,  because we all know you build a franchise around a RB. Barkley is an immense talent, but the Giants should have been drafting a QB when they picked Saquon. 

This, although I think it's too early to tell about Jones. He does some excellent things on the field.

 

I was just so pleased that the Giants decided to take a running back, leaving the QB field more open for the Bills.  It's kind of amazing that Gettleman is screwing things up there while Beane, his student, seems to understand the job very well.  

[machine gun kelly]

22 minutes ago, mannc said:

I don’t think Newton is any more likely to get hurt than JA.  They have a similar running style and I think will be used in similar ways in their offenses.  Both have been so effective from the pocket, that I don’t expect to see either run very much except in the red zone.

 

Murphy reminds me of Flutie and R Wilson...he just never seems to take a hit.  As you point out, very different from Cam and JA, who seem to relish contact...

Not doing the Prince thing, but Mannc, excellent points.  Having a workout, church, daddy/daughter day and yes all Bills by 1 pm.    If you get up,at 5 am, you can do it all.  Go bills and watch the rams cry by 4:30 pm.  Real bills fan.

[mannc]

25 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Newton is over 30.

Barely