QB School: Over Josh Allen

[eball]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

I agree with this...the accuracy and touch is amazing compared to last year...the ball is just sitting out there perfectly for the receivers to put their hands up and catch it most times.  The most impressive throw to me was the one to Diggs where he got flushed and then still throws a perfect 20 yard pass on the run and off balance and Diggs gets both feet down with a defender right on him...

 

Yep, and even though JT is critiquing Allen you can hear the genuine awe in his voice when he talks about the dimes Josh was dishing.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Yep, and even though JT is critiquing Allen you can hear the genuine awe in his voice when he talks about the dimes Josh was dishing.

 

The view of the pass from the end zone out to Diggs up the right side is absolutely amazing. I believe it's at 5:40 in the vid.

 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Yep, and even though JT is critiquing Allen you can hear the genuine awe in his voice when he talks about the dimes Josh was dishing.

 

Yeah, I didn't necassarily take it as "nitpicking", more just like film study. Similar to what you would go over the day or two after a game. What was good, bad, and what was best. He was pretty positive about Josh. JT thought Allen had a good game.

 

People need to calm down. Pointing out what could be better 3 days after watching the game film is not the same as saying "your QB blows". 

[JESSEFEFFER]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Wow...very interesting on his breakdown on that huge play to Knox where he fumbles...said the throw he should have made was to Brown on the in because it likely was a TD and he is confused as to why Allen threw a checkdown that flashed when the in was so wide open and said Allen looked like he did at Wyoming to him on that play with a lack of anticipation of what was going to happen...play breakdown of this starts at about 8:45 in the video...

 

Interesting perspective and goes into great detail about the nuances and it shows that no matter how good Allen has looked, he has still left some plays out there...that throw would have been a 100% TD to Brown on the in...the safety was standing still about 20 yards deeper and off about 10 yards to his right and would never have been able to catch Brown running full speed away and up the field...

 

I can't get to the point of criticizing a decision that lead to a 38 yard gain.  That's not the world I live in.  It might be as simple as Daboll making a play call and emphasizing that it should have Knox in the clear.  Coaches being right and players executing it well is where we want them to be.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Wow...very interesting on his breakdown on that huge play to Knox where he fumbles...said the throw he should have made was to Brown on the in because it likely was a TD and he is confused as to why Allen threw a checkdown that flashed when the in was so wide open and said Allen looked like he did at Wyoming to him on that play with a lack of anticipation of what was going to happen...play breakdown of this starts at about 8:45 in the video...

 

Interesting perspective and goes into great detail about the nuances and it shows that no matter how good Allen has looked, he has still left some plays out there...that throw would have been a 100% TD to Brown on the in...the safety was standing still about 20 yards deeper and off about 10 yards to his right and would never have been able to catch Brown running full speed away and up the field...

I agree.  He's a little redundant and talks with a lot of jargon, but he was excellent at pointing out Allen's flaws.   It was really interesting.  They are, undoubtedly, the kinds of things the coaches are talking to Allen about.  He's seeing the field better, but he needs to be better still.  

 

How he shows Allen checking down to the back on the right when he should have recognized the mike turning and running to cover the check.  That left the throwing lane open for the crosser down field.  You can see as he explains how Allen should have seen it and gone over the middle.  

 

Nice analysis.  And the guy's not being critical, he's just saying there's more that Allen has left on the field.  At one point he marvels at the fact that Allen had a 400-yard day and was missing some of these opportunities.  He didn't say it, but the message was that it could have been a 500-yard day.  

 

And he points out how bad the DB play was.  

[MJS]

20 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I was going to say it looks like the two routes on the left are designed to clear space for Knox but who knows.

And that's another point. We don't know what the plays are or what Allen's route progressions are, or the direction he receives from Daboll. For all we know these are plays designed to go short so that they can set up the defense for longer plays later in the game.

 

It's just like the offensive line. We don't always know the blocking assignments. And we don't know if a WR ran the wrong route, etc.

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  He's a little redundant and talks with a lot of jargon, but he was excellent at pointing out Allen's flaws.   It was really interesting.  They are, undoubtedly, the kinds of things the coaches are talking to Allen about.  He's seeing the field better, but he needs to be better still.  

 

How he shows Allen checking down to the back on the right when he should have recognized the mike turning and running to cover the check.  That left the throwing lane open for the crosser down field.  You can see as he explains how Allen should have seen it and gone over the middle.  

 

Nice analysis.  And the guy's not being critical, he's just saying there's more that Allen has left on the field.  At one point he marvels at the fact that Allen had a 400-yard day and was missing some of these opportunities.  He didn't say it, but the message was that it could have been a 500-yard day.  

 

And he points out how bad the DB play was.  

The one thing I don't like about his segment, is that he doesn't point out the fact that all quarterbacks leave plays open on the field

 

I watched Tom Brady Russell Wilson and Drew Brees, leave plays out on the field for the last 15 years . You never see anybody replay their throws and say oh he missed that guy. And you'll never here  anybody say oh he's just throwing crossing route, like he did with Allen

 

Sure Allen still is a work in progress, but he's playing like the NFL MVP right now and he deserves credit

 

It's the NFL if you're not getting better you're getting worse, and Allen is clearly rapidly improving

Edited September 23, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Ralonzo]

20 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

The view of the pass from the end zone out to Diggs up the right side is absolutely amazing. I believe it's at 5:40 in the vid.

 

 

The rollout over to Diggs wasn't a window, that was a porthole.

 

My bigger takeaway is that while this guy generally likes Allen, he LOVES Daboll.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Ralonzo

[Kelly the Dog]

3 hours ago, Fixxxer said:

JT O'Sullivan breakdowns Allen's performance vs.  Dolphins.

 

 

Thanks so much for that, it was terrific. JT does an amazing job on these for both casual and serious fans. Great stuff.

17 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The one thing I don't like about his segment, is that he doesn't point out the fact that all quarterbacks leave plays open on the field

 

I watched Tom Brady Russell Wilson and Drew Brees, leave plays out on the field for the last 15 years . You never see anybody replay their throws and say oh he missed that guy. And you'll never here  anybody say oh he's just throwing crossing route, like he did with Allen

 

Sure Allen still is a work in progress, but he's playing like the NFL MVP right now and he deserves credit

 

It's the NFL if you're not getting better you're getting worse, and Allen is clearly rapidly improving

I think he knows that and is just highly critical of every play in its own existence. If he was always finding fault that would be different. But i would bet anything that this is how Josh and Daboll and Dorsey are looking at every play in the film study. And I didn't agree with JT on all of his analysis either. 

[Stranded in Boston]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

And somebody who has seen the game from every level. Player fan scout coach, it absolutely looks like they are clear out routes for the underneath knox

 

Sullivan is nitpicking so much he sounds stupid

I hear you, Buff716. Seems like if you've got a bruising tight end with 4.5 speed out in that much space, you've gotta go with the high percentage throw. It WAS a 38-yard gain, after all! Nitpicking indeed ...

[HOUSE]

This guy has an itchy pause button finger

[Jauronimo]

I am sure the game plan will shift based on opponent but the analyst emphasizes they are trying to bring WRs across his field of vision.  Clearly, Allen is comfortable with these crossing routes.  Is this something defenses can effectively take away?  If you're the Miami defensive coordinator what are you doing to stop those routes and what are the new risks?

[K-9]

1 hour ago, eball said:

I watched the whole thing.  Appreciate the analysis and yes, it looks like Josh was deciding between multiple open receivers frequently.  I think JT is a bit nitpicky but I'm sure Josh and Daboll watched this tape and said similar things.

 

The biggest takeaway for me, though, is the accuracy and touch on the throws.

Well then, that’s on Daboll. What kind of moron would design an offense with multiple open options that confuse his QB?

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Thanks so much for that, it was terrific. JT does an amazing job on these for both casual and serious fans. Great stuff.

I think he knows that and is just highly critical of every play in its own existence. If he was always finding fault that would be different. But i would bet anything that this is how Josh and Daboll and Dorsey are looking at every play in the film study. And I didn't agree with JT on all of his analysis either. 

Of course Allan and daboll and dorsey do due diligence. But they also know the progressions Allen needs to make and how the play is supposed to be ran

 

There are honestly two types of quarterbacks in this league. Quarterbacks who take what the defense gives them, and quarterbacks who will wait for the read

 

Rodgers has historically been willing to take a sack, to let his read develop downfield that he's waiting on. Tom Brady will hit his first open receiver usually

 

They play the game differently but both effectively

 

It's like the old basketball adage. Give up a good shot for a great shot. It's just quarterbacks have different ideas what a great shot is

[Coach Tuesday]

I thought Allen had an amazing game and I also thought (without film study) he left about 150 yards on the table.  I would guess he'd say the same thing and so would Daboll.  Nothing wrong with it, I'm sure he'll keep working and have even better games.  Scratching the surface.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course Allan and daboll and dorsey do due diligence. But they also know the progressions Allen needs to make and how the play is supposed to be ran

 

There are honestly two types of quarterbacks in this league. Quarterbacks who take what the defense gives them, and quarterbacks who will wait for the read

 

Rodgers has historically been willing to take a sack, to let his read develop downfield that he's waiting on. Tom Brady will hit his first open receiver usually

 

They play the game differently but both effectively

 

It's like the old basketball adage. Give up a good shot for a great shot. It's just quarterbacks have different ideas what a great shot is

Agree with every word of that. 
 

My point was the pick of nits with JT’s pick of nits.

 

I have no problem with him criticizing good plays the way he did if he provides sound reasoning and if he also does a lot of superlativing, which he repeatedly did. Not to mention that his kind of free 30 minute in depth analysis on the internet is fantastic for us. And he does it well. 
 

I took major issue with 2-3 of his criticisms myself. But overall that was great free stuff. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Agree with every word of that. 
 

My point was the pick of nits with JT’s pick of nits.

 

I have no problem with him criticizing good plays the way he did if he provides sound reasoning and if he also does a lot of superlativing, which he repeatedly did. Not to mention that his kind of free 30 minute in depth analysis on the internet is fantastic for us. And he does it well. 
 

I took major issue with 2-3 of his criticisms myself. But overall that was great free stuff. 

Definitely. Not trying to say he doesn't know his stuff. 

 

I've always been one to find negatives, even on my best day. It really is the only way to push you and get you to grow

 

And as an NFL quarterback, you need to be growing everyday. Which it seems like Josh is

[Protocal69]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Every single quarterback leaves plays out on the field. You have no idea the play call , what his reads are, and what the play is designed for

 

The play looks like it is designed for Knox crossing face and it's honestly stupid for Sullivan to say it looks like Wyoming Josh Allen. The name of the game is to take what the defense gives you

 

You can't always throw it to everybody on the play, and he definitely did not make a bad decision, just because somebody else was breaking open

Yeah I think when it comes to checking down it is a thing of knowing when to and when not to and for a quarterback who is learning how to check down its ok to error on the side of the check down while he figures it out which I am fine with because Allen is no Trent Edwards

[smuvtalker]

2 hours ago, BillsToast said:

The problem with these types of analysis is every QB who has protection could have thrown for 500 yards with 7 TDs. 

 

Many plays can easily be shown that the QB missed a read. If it was so easy everyone would be a QB. 

 

In real time you just want proficiency on the play, not perfection. Perfection is the enemy of the good. When he shows Brown open I don't think any QB is that capable. 

 

I'm not saying Allen is infallible, but as far as a QB that is as close to perfect as you can get in the last game. 

 

I'm sure Drew Brees 2 years ago might have had a higher completion % in that game, but not as many yards or TDs or yards as he checks down frequently. Each QB has their strengths. 

Very, very well said sir.  👍

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

The one thing I don't like about his segment, is that he doesn't point out the fact that all quarterbacks leave plays open on the field

 

I watched Tom Brady Russell Wilson and Drew Brees, leave plays out on the field for the last 15 years . You never see anybody replay their throws and say oh he missed that guy. And you'll never here  anybody say oh he's just throwing crossing route, like he did with Allen

 

Sure Allen still is a work in progress, but he's playing like the NFL MVP right now and he deserves credit

 

It's the NFL if you're not getting better you're getting worse, and Allen is clearly rapidly improving

It's more for me than for Allen.  It was interesting to me to see the openings that Allen missed and to see the keys that should have shown Allen that he had another play.  

 

The point he doesn't make, the point we all get, is that these are instantaneous decisions the QB has to make, and it takes years of playing to understand the keys so intuitively that you just know to go to another guy.  Like that thing about the middle linebacker turning to run with the checkdown back.  You've got see it, out of the corner of your eye and know that that hip and shoulder turn is leaving a whole in the middle that your receiver can see and sit in.   It isn't something you pick up instantly; it's experience and some bad decisions and a variety of things.   Allen's still learning.   What I've said for a couple of years now is that it will Allen's fourth and fifth years when he starts to show master quarterback skills.