Fixxxer Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 JT O'Sullivan breakdowns Allen's performance vs. Dolphins. 6 1 3
LeviF Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Thanks for posting, I like JT's stuff a lot. Looking forward to watching all half an hour (!) of his takes.
Big Turk Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) Wow...very interesting on his breakdown on that huge play to Knox where he fumbles...said the throw he should have made was to Brown on the in because it likely was a TD and he is confused as to why Allen threw a checkdown that flashed when the in was so wide open and said Allen looked like he did at Wyoming to him on that play with a lack of anticipation of what was going to happen...play breakdown of this starts at about 8:45 in the video... Interesting perspective and goes into great detail about the nuances and it shows that no matter how good Allen has looked, he has still left some plays out there...that throw would have been a 100% TD to Brown on the in...the safety was standing still about 20 yards deeper and off about 10 yards to his right and would never have been able to catch Brown running full speed away and up the field... Edited September 23, 2020 by matter2003
BillsToast Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 The problem with these types of analysis is every QB who has protection could have thrown for 500 yards with 7 TDs. Many plays can easily be shown that the QB missed a read. If it was so easy everyone would be a QB. In real time you just want proficiency on the play, not perfection. Perfection is the enemy of the good. When he shows Brown open I don't think any QB is that capable. I'm not saying Allen is infallible, but as far as a QB that is as close to perfect as you can get in the last game. I'm sure Drew Brees 2 years ago might have had a higher completion % in that game, but not as many yards or TDs or yards as he checks down frequently. Each QB has their strengths. 16 1 1
MJS Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 38 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Wow...very interesting on his breakdown on that huge play to Knox where he fumbles...said the throw he should have made was to Brown on the in because it likely was a TD and he is confused as to why Allen threw a checkdown that flashed when the in was so wide open and said Allen looked like he did at Wyoming to him on that play with a lack of anticipation of what was going to happen...play breakdown of this starts at about 8:45 in the video... Interesting perspective and goes into great detail about the nuances and it shows that no matter how good Allen has looked, he has still left some plays out there...that throw would have been a 100% TD to Brown on the in...the safety was standing still about 20 yards deeper and off about 10 yards to his right and would never have been able to catch Brown running full speed away and up the field... I just think you could find these types of plays for even the best QB's in the NFL on any given Sunday. Players are bound to miss things and make mistakes. They aren't robots. A QB's performance should be measured in totality, not by one or two plays they missed or made. 8 1
LeviF Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, BillsToast said: The problem with these types of analysis is every QB who has protection could have thrown for 500 yards with 7 TDs. Many plays can easily be shown that the QB missed a read. If it was so easy everyone would be a QB. In real time you just want proficiency on the play, not perfection. Perfection is the enemy of the good. When he shows Brown open I don't think any QB is that capable. I'm not saying Allen is infallible, but as far as a QB that is as close to perfect as you can get in the last game. I'm sure Drew Brees 2 years ago might have had a higher completion % in that game, but not as many yards or TDs or yards as he checks down frequently. Each QB has their strengths. He's picking nits to a certain extent, but understand he comes from a different place on Allen than other analysts did. He saw him at Wyoming and liked what he saw, but recognized the issues with how Allen sees the play developing. He harps on it because he's seen the same things since 2016 or whatever. He does also say (different play) that you'll never hear a QB get criticized for hitting the checkdown and getting a positive play. He'd just like to see some anticipation and recognition of what's happening before it happens before he crowns the guy. On JT's longer all-22s he is never all sunshine and rainbows; there's always something to work on, something that was left on the field whether he's looking at Mahomes or Rodgers or Wilson or whoever. That's what the film is for. 4
mykidsdad Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 The final touch down to Brown was all arm and the ball traveled 55 yards or so in the air. Wow. 2
Big Turk Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, MJS said: I just think you could find these types of plays for even the best QB's in the NFL on any given Sunday. Players are bound to miss things and make mistakes. They aren't robots. A QB's performance should be measured in totality, not by one or two plays they missed or made. To be fair he was profuse in his praise for many of the throws Allen made because he said those overs are not easy throws to make and Allen made them look easy for much of the day and was dropping absolute dimes. Just pointed out that when Allen doesn't have a clear open receiver and can grip it and rip it, it can lead to some struggles still. 2
K-9 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 44 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Wow...very interesting on his breakdown on that huge play to Knox where he fumbles...said the throw he should have made was to Brown on the in because it likely was a TD and he is confused as to why Allen threw a checkdown that flashed when the in was so wide open and said Allen looked like he did at Wyoming to him on that play with a lack of anticipation of what was going to happen...play breakdown of this starts at about 8:45 in the video... Interesting perspective and goes into great detail about the nuances and it shows that no matter how good Allen has looked, he has still left some plays out there...that throw would have been a 100% TD to Brown on the in...the safety was standing still about 20 yards deeper and off about 10 yards to his right and would never have been able to catch Brown running full speed away and up the field... I will gauran-F ing-tee that EVERY QB in the league left at LEAST one better option out on the field on at LEAST one play during their games. Every. One. 5 3
Big Turk Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mykidsdad said: The final touch down to Brown was all arm and the ball traveled 55 yards or so in the air. Wow. And that 47 yard laser down the sideline to Diggs on the stutter-go route was a half stepped into throw with Spain rolling into his legs that he threw perfectly...both were really impressive throws. Edited September 23, 2020 by matter2003 2
Pokebball Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, BillsToast said: The problem with these types of analysis is every QB who has protection could have thrown for 500 yards with 7 TDs. Many plays can easily be shown that the QB missed a read. If it was so easy everyone would be a QB. In real time you just want proficiency on the play, not perfection. Perfection is the enemy of the good. When he shows Brown open I don't think any QB is that capable. I'm not saying Allen is infallible, but as far as a QB that is as close to perfect as you can get in the last game. I'm sure Drew Brees 2 years ago might have had a higher completion % in that game, but not as many yards or TDs or yards as he checks down frequently. Each QB has their strengths. Two thoughts here. I do agree with you mostly. What I like in your post and believe to be pretty dang important, is the right Josh needs to make a mistake. We need to allow him, and everyone else for that matter, to make mistakes - don't expect them to be perfect. Perfection doesn't happen. Ever. And most of us need to make mistakes to learn from and grow and become better. Second point is that while perfection is the enemy of the good, I think good is the enemy of great (I'm a Jim Collins guy). Josh, or anyone else for that matter, can't get comfortable with good. If he wants to become great, he's got to keep working hard. 1
Big Turk Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 1 minute ago, K-9 said: I will gauran-F ing-tee that EVERY QB in the league left at LEAST one better option out on the field on at LEAST one play during their games. Every. One. Oh absolutely...I think he was just pointing out some areas that he sees in Allen's game that could still use improvement, which is fair. Overall I think Allen has come lightyears from where he was as a rookie and he is also benefitting from having serious weapons around him that allows Daboll to very much play to his strengths 2
K-9 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Two thoughts here. I do agree with you mostly. What I like in your post and believe to be pretty dang important, is the right Josh needs to make a mistake. We need to allow him, and everyone else for that matter, to make mistakes - don't expect them to be perfect. Perfection doesn't happen. Ever. And most of us need to make mistakes to learn from and grow and become better. Second point is that while perfection is the enemy of the good, I think good is the enemy of great (I'm a Jim Collins guy). Josh, or anyone else for that matter, can't get comfortable with good. If he wants to become great, he's got to keep working hard. Allen possesses more of that particular trait than all the other necessary ingredients for success. And he possesses all the others in abundance. 2
MJS Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, matter2003 said: To be fair he was profuse in his praise for many of the throws Allen made because he said those overs are not easy throws to make and Allen made them look easy for much of the day and was dropping absolute dimes. Just pointed out that when Allen doesn't have a clear open receiver and can grip it and rip it, it can lead to some struggles still. Yeah, totally. I wasn't trying to reference the specific video, just that there is a lot of nitpicking of specific plays and I think that's the wrong way to evaluate a QB. But looking at specific plays and analyzing them is not a bad thing. People just shouldn't judge a QB based off of a few plays.
Big Turk Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MJS said: Yeah, totally. I wasn't trying to reference the specific video, just that there is a lot of nitpicking of specific plays and I think that's the wrong way to evaluate a QB. But looking at specific plays and analyzing them is not a bad thing. People just shouldn't judge a QB based off of a few plays. It was more that he was pointing out those specific plays to talk about the some of the same issues he keeps seeing with Allen since Wyoming...mainly that he doesn't always understand what Josh is thinking with some of his throws because the route progression wouldn't lead him to where he goes at times, or he doesn't anticipate or feel certain things like how the direction an LB's shoulders are turned can let you know if a guy is safe to throw to in a zone(there was one play where he hit Singletary for an 8 yard checkdown that he showed where the Fins played zone and Diggs was initially covered but Allen was looking right at him and didn't throw it when Diggs stopped and the LB was running aaway from him and Allen had a wide open window to throw into). But that being said...imagine how good Allen can be once he gets better at those things or more consistent?? The sky is the limit for him. Edited September 23, 2020 by matter2003 1
Buffalo716 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 59 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Wow...very interesting on his breakdown on that huge play to Knox where he fumbles...said the throw he should have made was to Brown on the in because it likely was a TD and he is confused as to why Allen threw a checkdown that flashed when the in was so wide open and said Allen looked like he did at Wyoming to him on that play with a lack of anticipation of what was going to happen...play breakdown of this starts at about 8:45 in the video... Interesting perspective and goes into great detail about the nuances and it shows that no matter how good Allen has looked, he has still left some plays out there...that throw would have been a 100% TD to Brown on the in...the safety was standing still about 20 yards deeper and off about 10 yards to his right and would never have been able to catch Brown running full speed away and up the field... Every single quarterback leaves plays out on the field. You have no idea the play call , what his reads are, and what the play is designed for The play looks like it is designed for Knox crossing face and it's honestly stupid for Sullivan to say it looks like Wyoming Josh Allen. The name of the game is to take what the defense gives you You can't always throw it to everybody on the play, and he definitely did not make a bad decision, just because somebody else was breaking open 1
Warcodered Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Just now, Buffalo716 said: Every single quarterback leaves plays out on the field. You have no idea the play call , what his reads are, and what the play is designed for The play looks like it is designed for Knox crossing face and it's honestly stupid for Sullivan to say it looks like Wyoming Josh Allen. The name of the game is to take what the defense gives you You can't always throw it to everybody on the play, and he definitely did not make a bad decision, just because somebody else was breaking open I was going to say it looks like the two routes on the left are designed to clear space for Knox but who knows.
eball Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 I watched the whole thing. Appreciate the analysis and yes, it looks like Josh was deciding between multiple open receivers frequently. I think JT is a bit nitpicky but I'm sure Josh and Daboll watched this tape and said similar things. The biggest takeaway for me, though, is the accuracy and touch on the throws. 2 1
Buffalo716 Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 Just now, Warcodered said: I was going to say it looks like the two routes on the left are designed to clear space for Knox but who knows. And somebody who has seen the game from every level. Player fan scout coach, it absolutely looks like they are clear out routes for the underneath knox Sullivan is nitpicking so much he sounds stupid 2
Big Turk Posted September 23, 2020 Posted September 23, 2020 1 minute ago, eball said: I watched the whole thing. Appreciate the analysis and yes, it looks like Josh was deciding between multiple open receivers frequently. I think JT is a bit nitpicky but I'm sure Josh and Daboll watched this tape and said similar things. The biggest takeaway for me, though, is the accuracy and touch on the throws. I agree with this...the accuracy and touch is amazing compared to last year...the ball is just sitting out there perfectly for the receivers to put their hands up and catch it most times. The most impressive throw to me was the one to Diggs where he got flushed and then still throws a perfect 20 yard pass on the run and off balance and Diggs gets both feet down with a defender right on him...
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