Alphadawg7 Posted September 24, 2020 Posted September 24, 2020 I wouldn't really think Allen's team would be interested unless Allen accomplished something big this year like a SB birth or victory, or even an MVP year. If he extends before he's truly arrived, he won't get the value he could get if he has a big playoff run and returns Bills to the SB. That being said, its possible an extension could be reached this offseason if Allens shows Beane and McD he's officially the long term guy, which he's obviously on a pace for right now. I mean Allen seems to genuinely love being a Buffalo Bill and would think he wants to stay. Plus Josh is so competitive, I think winning is more important to him than the biggest contract possible. So I do think Allen and Beane will find common ground on a contract that is big but also not crippling to the Bills to field a championships contending team during the term of his contract. But, I do think it will solely depend on how far the Bills go and just how big Allens season is for it to make sense or not this offseason.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 Pump the brakes. Its been two games and he had a fumble that didn't stand due to a quick whistle and two interceptions dropped last week. He is progressing very nicely but let's see a larger sample size. Best way to win a SB is a QB on a cheap contract. No reason to pay too early unless he wins the SB this year.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) I don’t intend to be rude. 5 pages on this? Let me repeat myself from page 1 or 2. the Bills won’t have cap space until 2022! There really isn’t much dead weight on the roster to cut anyone to free up 20 mil or more. Edited September 25, 2020 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce
Turk71 Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 As Gunner already stated they can't talk extension until after the season. If they do extend him after the season the '21 cap space is minimal at this point so it would need to be a backloaded deal. I fully expect Allen to be the Bills QB for many years to come but this extension talk will have to wait.
PrimeTime101 Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 by doing 5th year option puts us in scary place where next year josh could easily test the market. I do not want to give him that option.. if hes top 5 qb by week 12 hes going to get paid. 1
PrimeTime101 Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, TBBills said: Win us a playoff game or two... lol....
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/23/2020 at 3:29 PM, billsfan89 said: Hell no they don't take extend Josh until he is on the last year of his deal. First off, why not see exactly what Josh is before you reset the market? You have him under control the next 2 seasons after this year. Why not let Josh play out this season and next season so that you know fully what player you are investing in. Don't make the same mistake the Rams did fully paying Goff with 2 years left on his deal, when they could have waited one more year to fully make that investment. I love Josh but I think he should wait one more year for his extension. Not only would it give you the ability to have one more year of cheap QB play but you then would fully know what type of QB you are investing in. Why not? 1) Signing him earlier means you get him cheaper. 2) You can push a lot of that guaranteed money into years 4 and 5 where he will likely be in Buffalo anyway. This will lower his average salary and in a worst-case scenario where he needs to be cut, lower the dead cap hit. Also, the 5th year option is now fully guaranteed and for a QB will be 30mil plus. Instead of exercising that option , Beane should just present a longer extension with that 30 million built-in since we will be paying it either way. Beane did this with White's extension and to a lesser extend with Dawkins. When announced, White's extension said 17.5 average, but if you look on spotrac it's around 14mil in the later years due to pushing some money into this year and next. 1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I don’t intend to be rude. 5 pages on this? Let me repeat myself from page 1 or 2. the Bills won’t have cap space until 2022! There really isn’t much dead weight on the roster to cut anyone to free up 20 mil or more. This is incorrect
billsfan89 Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Chemical said: Why not? 1) Signing him earlier means you get him cheaper. 2) You can push a lot of that guaranteed money into years 4 and 5 where he will likely be in Buffalo anyway. This will lower his average salary and in a worst-case scenario where he needs to be cut, lower the dead cap hit. Also, the 5th year option is now fully guaranteed and for a QB will be 30mil plus. Instead of exercising that option , Beane should just present a longer extension with that 30 million built-in since we will be paying it either way. Allen's 5th year option will be around 17.6 million, it is the franchise tag that is north of 30 million. You can still spread his contact out over the course of that 5th year option and lower the cap hit. Give me another year with a stacked roster around him.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Allen's 5th year option will be around 17.6 million, it is the franchise tag that is north of 30 million. You can still spread his contact out over the course of that 5th year option and lower the cap hit. Give me another year with a stacked roster around him. I was wrong, but you are also wrong. The tag would be around $24.8mil currently. The amount of the transition tag. But that could go up if say, Dak Prescott signs a large extension. https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/20/fifth-year-options-to-be-guaranteed-in-proposed-cba-no-longer-tied-to-draft-slot/amp/
Putin Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) I’m sure nobody is even thinking to sign him now because in a year or two they would have to pay him a lot more . He needs to prove that our search for a QB is over and he’s our FRANCHISE for the next decade , And I’m sure they would be more then happy to make him the highest paid QB , I believe in my heart that he is that guy this year will know for sure !!! GO BILLS !!!! Edited September 25, 2020 by Putin
MJS Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 Gotta wait till the end of the season. If Allen has a true breakout year and we go deep in the playoffs, it will happen, and it should happen. Better to get it done sooner rather than later. But I'm sure it will be structured so the big money kicks in after his 5th year, similar to Tre's contract.
billsfan89 Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Chemical said: I was wrong, but you are also wrong. The tag would be around $24.8mil currently. The amount of the transition tag. But that could go up if say, Dak Prescott signs a large extension. https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/20/fifth-year-options-to-be-guaranteed-in-proposed-cba-no-longer-tied-to-draft-slot/amp/ Would the option changes be retroactive to current deals or for the newest first round picks? Genuinely curious as that does change the algebra a bit. Still I would rather wait to see what you have longer even if it makes it harder to do the cap. Too many times has this team overpaid a QB early (Tyrod and Fitz come to mind) not saying Josh isn't worth it but let's know exactly what he is before making the long term commitment.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 2 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Would the option changes be retroactive to current deals or for the newest first round picks? Genuinely curious as that does change the algebra a bit. Still I would rather wait to see what you have longer even if it makes it harder to do the cap. Too many times has this team overpaid a QB early (Tyrod and Fitz come to mind) not saying Josh isn't worth it but let's know exactly what he is before making the long term commitment. it starts with Allen/Edmunds draft. I get that. I was in your camp until I realized a couple weeks ago that they are going to at least give Allen the 5th year option unless he implodes this season. So giving him an extension instead of the option would be only slightly more risky. Once he’s done with year six there may not be much (relatively) guaranteed money left on his deal if it’s front loaded. But, if he ends up getting even better you have a good/great QB on a good deal. If you wait til after the 5th year option (w/ no extension) you risk having to pay him more than Dak and Lamar, possibly Baker if he bounces back. Either way works for me but I would rather take the risk. If you structure it properly and he tanks, you can just eat the dead cap for one year like Jacksonville did with Bortles.
GunnerBill Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 9 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I don’t intend to be rude. 5 pages on this? Let me repeat myself from page 1 or 2. the Bills won’t have cap space until 2022! There really isn’t much dead weight on the roster to cut anyone to free up 20 mil or more. They will not touch his 2021 salary or likely his 2022 salary as it would be under the option if they extend him after this year. The likelihood is they have to find $4-5m space to prorate some of the signing bonus onto the 2021 salary cap, but they don't have to have the big cap numbers rolling in until 2023... 1
JohnNord Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 I think it’s a given they pick up his option. Based on his improvement throughout 2019 and the encouraging signs for the first 2 week, he has earned that. If all goes well, I would bet that the Bills will set him up with a long term contract sometime next season. I honestly believe that the Bills are going to be 100% sure before they commit because as several have pointed out - it’s a huge hit to your cap. Best case scenario - I would be willing to bet the Bills will follow a model like the Chiefs did with Mahomes. If all goes well this season the Bills will look to extend Allen before the start of year 4. Obviously this changes if the Bills struggle this season
GunnerBill Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chemical said: it starts with Allen/Edmunds draft. I get that. I was in your camp until I realized a couple weeks ago that they are going to at least give Allen the 5th year option unless he implodes this season. So giving him an extension instead of the option would be only slightly more risky. Once he’s done with year six there may not be much (relatively) guaranteed money left on his deal if it’s front loaded. But, if he ends up getting even better you have a good/great QB on a good deal. If you wait til after the 5th year option (w/ no extension) you risk having to pay him more than Dak and Lamar, possibly Baker if he bounces back. Either way works for me but I would rather take the risk. If you structure it properly and he tanks, you can just eat the dead cap for one year like Jacksonville did with Bortles. Indeed that is the Goff / Wentz model. They were extended after 3 years but in such a way that only really tied those franchises in on them for 1 extra year beyond their rookie contracts. 2020 would have been Wetnz's 5th year option year and there is an out after 2021 that while expensive, with the way the hit would spread over two years is completely manageable for the sake of getting yourself out of a commitment to a Franchise QB you have lost faith in. Would mean $9m dead cap in 2022 and $15m dead cap in 2023. Big numbers, sure, but not numbers that completely kill your cap, especially if the way you replace Wentz is by going to the well again and drafting a rookie who is going to be dirt cheap those two years. In order to do that the Eagles (and the Rams did similar with Goff) had to frontload a lot of the big guaranteed money into what would have been the 5th year option year and the additional 6th and 7th year. That means big cap numbers for Wentz in 2020 and 2021 BUT crucially, if the Eagles don't regret their decision and decide Wentz is their guy and they don't need to get out..... then it is a very easy contract to re-work and spread some of those guarantees into the later years of the contract allowing you to continue building a competitive team around Wentz in 2021 and beyond. The Rams have actually already made their decision on Goff and gone to that well and done a renegotiation to start spreading that money. That allows them to sign Ramsey, Kupp and Woods to extensions. I am not at all against doing a Went/Goff contract with Allen after this year. If you are a bit more confident you can do something more Mahomes like and do a deal that spreads the money right from the start.... Watson's deal is shorter and structured somewhere in the middle in terms of upfront vs long term spread (but feels very much like a deal you have to do when your Quarterback is slightly suspicious of committing to the organisation given the leadership situation which is a scenario the Bills won't face). Edited September 25, 2020 by GunnerBill
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: They will not touch his 2021 salary or likely his 2022 salary as it would be under the option if they extend him after this year. The likelihood is they have to find $4-5m space to prorate some of the signing bonus onto the 2021 salary cap, but they don't have to have the big cap numbers rolling in until 2023... Correct. They don't have to. But they would have the funds as early as 2022. Maybe the OP should change the title to WHEN will Josh get his new contract.
Don Otreply Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 Not until the end of the season at the earliest, if they have any sense, and I am a JA fan, franchise status is not solidified in two very good outings. Now wait a little while and I’ll be proved wrong... Go Bills!!!
GunnerBill Posted September 25, 2020 Posted September 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Not until the end of the season at the earliest, if they have any sense, and I am a JA fan, franchise status is not solidified in two very good outings. Now wait a little while and I’ll be proved wrong... Go Bills!!! They can't do before then by rule.
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