Weekly PFF Hate

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Not sure I follow. Darnold was 19/32 for 179 yards and 1 td.

 

How is that better than Allen?

 

Is their formula secret ?

Edited September 23, 2020 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[BruceVilanch]

On 9/21/2020 at 12:52 PM, machine gun kelly said:

“You know you’re a funny guy Tommy”.  “That’s it Hendry, I think you’d fold unda questioning!  “You r a funny guy, ya sidewinda”!  “That’s it”

 

I love that movie.

Funny how?

[4merper4mer]

6 hours ago, AirAllenPower said:

I'm curious how pff would grade John Elway and Brett Favre 

 

Seriously 

It depends on what they said before Elway and Favre were drafted.

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Not sure I follow. Darnold was 19/32 for 179 yards and 1 td.

 

How is that better than Allen?

 

Is their formula secret ?

Yes. And stupid. 

[JohnNord]

Here’s another attempt to diminish Josh’s performance versus over the past two weeks:

 

 

On 9/21/2020 at 11:01 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think that notion is far-fetched; I think where the bias you allude to may operate is when the PFF commentators are writing articles and yapping - er, I mean commenting - about Allen.

 

If I understand their system correctly, they have a group of workers grading each QB play - three or something like that.  Those aren't the people who made the pre-draft predictions, they have no skin in the game, it's highly doubtful they have a particular bias against Allen, they're just flunkies trained to grade a play using specified metrics.  So they do their thing, and their grades get averaged or added or whatever it is PFF does in their Special Secret Sauce, then all the play grades get added and multiplied and crunched and munched.   It's hard to conceive that all the flunkies have an anti Allen bias.  It's supposed to be objective, but the key point - it's objective using the specified metrics.  So if the metrics are flawed or biased, the grade will be flawed or biased.

I think there is bias, but it's more impersonal and deeper into the system.  It's a grading system designed to penalize risk and incentivize caution, and it doesn't look at game outcomes or offensive productivity.  That's why you can get a QB like Darnold who passed for only 179 yds and 1 TD in a loss, but who completed a high percentage and didn't put the football at risk, graded higher than Allen.  That's how you get a QB like Tyrod Taylor in 2016 with the Bills rated as the #11 QB that year.  He passed for only 200 ypg on average, and only 17 TD in 15 games, but by jinks he didn't throw "interceptable balls" like the guided missile Diggs tucked away despite two defenders who were right there trying to pluck it. 

 

 

 

 

Wonderful explanation...thank you 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I wouldn't want to give them the free publicity, but if you roll that way, Buffalofanatics has got you!

(I'll stick with Buffalo -vs- Everybody)

 

[buffalo2218]

There’s always gonna be a narrative when it comes to this team. Not so much for being in a small market, but more of because of fear of eating words. Sure, we’re gonna have some outlets giving praise, but for the most part, others are desperately afraid of being wrong about Allen. 
 

 I won’t be surprised to see us running the ball more this week and play a little more ball control. Allen’s numbers may drop quite a bit compared to the first 2 games. But then again,!it seems like he’s a lot more motivated and could end up shredding the Rams’ secondary. I’m sure Jalen Ramsey’s comments are still in the back of his mind

[Hapless Bills Fan]

27 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Here’s another attempt to diminish Josh’s performance versus over the past two weeks:

 

 

Wonderful explanation...thank you 

 

You're welcome.

 

Who the Hell is Steven Ruiz and why should we care? "Haven't watched him closely yet" - if he watched, he'd see that Josh's OL was brilliant at giving him time the last 2 weeks, and he took full advantage.  He made some good throws rolling out and on the run, but he also missed some "bunnies" because he didn't re-set and/or he let technique lapse while on the run. 

 

I have no idea what his numbers are or what their source is.   They are labeled "Grades".  Whose grades?  By what criteria?

 

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Not sure I follow. Darnold was 19/32 for 179 yards and 1 td.

 

How is that better than Allen?

 

Is their formula secret ?

 

I think so, yeah.  Here's an article where they puff off explain the general philosophy of their method, but if you can find any actual details or formula for it, anywhere on the Interwebs, I will eat my hair starting at the root ends.  And I'm not eating my hair, save for the occasional random strand that floats into my spaghetti.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

34 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Here’s another attempt to diminish Josh’s performance versus over the past two weeks:

 

 

Wonderful explanation...thank you 

below average when not under pressure = 71% 78% if you take out the 4 drops for over 7.3 YPA.

 

i hope opposing defenses read this ‘piece’ and decide not to pressure and force more of this below average play. 🙄 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Just read an article on the Athletic about the PFF system, sounds like Fairburn contracted them to understand why.   Not endorsing or complaining,  just summarizing some of the points given of how their grades are determined:

 

The explanation given is they aren't grading purely off stats.  For example QB's will get negative grades for passes that could have been intercepted, but given a positive grade for dropped passes.  Also the QB doesn't get as much credit for completing a pass to a wide open receiver, in that case the receiver gets the better grade for getting himself open where as throwing a completion into a tight window does give the QB better grades.

 

It also stated, (didn't exactly understand the logic here), but negative grades will make the grades worse early in the season when less data to analyze where as the season progresses, you don't notice the negative stuff in the overall score as much.  It also stated that it's easier for a QB to generate negative grades than positive ones.

 

It gave a couple of examples of scores given prior where fans and even coaches screamed about them

 

Aaron Rodgers had a grade of -.08, which was average and he threw for 333 yards, 5 TD's, zero interceptions. But he also had a fumble, a dropped int and 3 TD's  credited more to great  plays by Randall Cobb. McCarthy screamed about the grades, but last summer, he met with them and went over that game and came away with a good understanding of why the score was bad and agreed that their assessment was accurate.

 

Another game Nick Foles threw 400 yards, 7 TD's  and zero ints and had a score around what Allen got.  Kelly the coach at the time went nuts too, but again after sitting down with them and understanding what goes into their grading system, came away as a believer.

 

So to some of the points above, is their grading system secret? no but alot more than the obvious goes into it?  Like to see how they'd grade Farve, well Rodgers didn't make out too well!

[QCity]

57 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Just read an article on the Athletic about the PFF system, sounds like Fairburn contracted them to understand why.   Not endorsing or complaining,  just summarizing some of the points given of how their grades are determined:

 

The explanation given is they aren't grading purely off stats.  For example QB's will get negative grades for passes that could have been intercepted, but given a positive grade for dropped passes.  Also the QB doesn't get as much credit for completing a pass to a wide open receiver, in that case the receiver gets the better grade for getting himself open where as throwing a completion into a tight window does give the QB better grades.

 

 

 

Excellent article that was pretty insightful. Allen had more positive plays than any other QB last week, but he takes a slight hit for negative plays. “When you look at our data historically, the positively graded throws tend to fluctuate more than the negatives,” Palazzolo said. “It’s somewhat intuitive. A quarterback controls his negatives more than his positives."

 

I thought it was fascinating that Mike McCarthy met with them to go over Rodgers' 5TD 0 INT game and actually came away in agreement with PFF.

 

The day Nick Foles threw for over 400 yards, seven touchdowns and zero interceptions for Kelly’s Eagles, his PFF grade was on par with Allen’s from Sunday. And that was mostly a result of how open the receivers were due to their own talent and Kelly’s scheme.

 

So the team at PFF walked Kelly through their process. Kelly pointed out observations PFF graders made that he and his staff would never look at, but that just meant they did things differently. Once Kelly realized how much they knew and the value of the information they had, he became an investor in the company.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Excellent article that was pretty insightful. Allen had more positive plays than any other QB last week, but he takes a slight hit for negative plays. “When you look at our data historically, the positively graded throws tend to fluctuate more than the negatives,” Palazzolo said. “It’s somewhat intuitive. A quarterback controls his negatives more than his positives."

 

I thought it was fascinating that Mike McCarthy met with them to go over Rodgers' 5TD 0 INT game and actually came away in agreement with PFF.

 

The day Nick Foles threw for over 400 yards, seven touchdowns and zero interceptions for Kelly’s Eagles, his PFF grade was on par with Allen’s from Sunday. And that was mostly a result of how open the receivers were due to their own talent and Kelly’s scheme.

 

So the team at PFF walked Kelly through their process. Kelly pointed out observations PFF graders made that he and his staff would never look at, but that just meant they did things differently. Once Kelly realized how much they knew and the value of the information they had, he became an investor in the company.

Chip Kelly’s endorsement is a positive?

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Excellent article that was pretty insightful. Allen had more positive plays than any other QB last week, but he takes a slight hit for negative plays. “When you look at our data historically, the positively graded throws tend to fluctuate more than the negatives,” Palazzolo said. “It’s somewhat intuitive. A quarterback controls his negatives more than his positives."

 

I thought it was fascinating that Mike McCarthy met with them to go over Rodgers' 5TD 0 INT game and actually came away in agreement with PFF.

 

The day Nick Foles threw for over 400 yards, seven touchdowns and zero interceptions for Kelly’s Eagles, his PFF grade was on par with Allen’s from Sunday. And that was mostly a result of how open the receivers were due to their own talent and Kelly’s scheme.

 

So the team at PFF walked Kelly through their process. Kelly pointed out observations PFF graders made that he and his staff would never look at, but that just meant they did things differently. Once Kelly realized how much they knew and the value of the information they had, he became an investor in the company.

I’m sorry, but any analysis that puts Sam Darnold ahead of Josh Allen for week 2 of the 2020 season is deeply, deeply flawed.

[QCity]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I’m sorry, but any analysis that puts Sam Darnold ahead of Josh Allen for week 2 of the 2020 season is deeply, deeply flawed.

 

Try reading the article. You might learn something.

[syhuang]

6 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Try reading the article. You might learn something.

 

The following are what I posted on Monday regarding Darnold's week 2 performance. It's seems like PFF give too much credits for "safer" throw while not helping teams to win:

 

 

I watched Jets game yesterday since I'm in 49ers' local market and I have to say Darnold was even unimpressed yesterday than that first game. Majority of his completions were short passes and no one (except probably die-hard Jets fans and  PFF) would say those are short passes picking apart defense. Many are 5-yard WR out pattern to sideline. Darnold was 21/32 for 179 yards yesterday while 74 yards were from the garbage time with 3:07 left in the game trailing 7-31 and 49ers in prevent D. He was 16/27 (59%) for 105 yards before then. It's really weird that his performance could be considered better.

 

Furthermore:

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by syhuang

[HOUSE]

Josh has never thrown for 500 yards EVER......

 

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

14 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Try reading the article. You might learn something.

Whenever I come across a difference of opinion like this, I apply a simple rule: If eight billion out of eight billion people on the planet think Josh Allen’s game was better, Allen’s game was better. 

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Try reading the article. You might learn something.

What if I’ve read their contrived nonsense for years and years, about how “no no you see, NFL coaches consistently realize how PFF is right and they’re wrong”, only to see ridiculous rankings that put an absolutely 💩show performance ahead of a 417 yard, 4 TD day?

 

Should I still read yet another 💩piece from them?

[Just Joshin']

9 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Try reading the article. You might learn something.

I did and learned that their methodology is flawed.  If Allen rifles a throw into tight coverage and makes the play, it is a negative because it could have been intercepted.  Feels good on first review.

 

Now let's put some context:  if he completes a checkdown on third down the throw counts more than the above throw to convert the 3rd and keep the drive going.  He made the throw and it was not almost intercepted, here is a cookie.  Team lost but nice throw.

 

In the case above what if Allen knew it would be close but he also knew he had the strength and touch to make the play.  So he gets punished?

 

Playing the "what if" game is a losers analysis.  Over the course of time those things will even out.  If he is reckless then it will show up in the stats.  if he is successful, it will show up in the stats. 

 

Context is also important on when in the game the plays occur:  is it garbage time with a prevent?  Does that score positive points vs a hard fought first half?

 

So back to @thebandit27 question: do you consider Darnold's performance better than Allen's last week?

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

What if I’ve read their contrived nonsense for years and years, about how “no no you see, NFL coaches consistently realize how PFF is right and they’re wrong”, only to see ridiculous rankings that put an absolutely 💩show performance ahead of a 417 yard, 4 TD day?

 

Should I still read yet another 💩piece from them?

When you’ve read crap after crap from them for years, it’s safe to assume that the next thing you read from them will also be crap.