Robert Woods 4yr/65m extension

[dollars 2 donuts]

5 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Yea and the poor bastards only got a super bowl parade out of it all. 

 

No, that would be if they had done it last year, or the year before.  But they won the super bowl in 2017.

[Utah John]

He was a good player but not THAT good while with the Bills.  These days, I don't think he'd start -- our current WRs are better, and can stretch the field better as well, since Brown and Diggs both have much better speed.  And Beasley is great in the slot.  And if he's getting that much money from somewhere else, then good for him, godspeed and all that.

[ProcessTruster]

13 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

It’s deals like this that makes me continue to question why people think the Bills can’t afford their players. The rams are laying Goff, Donald, Ramsey, Woods, Kupp all too money plus they have Gurley’s dead cap hit on top of that. People need to stop saying the Bills can’t afford all of their players. I will say it again, if the Bills want to keep a player, there is no issue whatsoever with them keeping that player

 

1 minute ago, ProcessTruster said:

yeah but how many good players have they let get away or cut to pay for a half dozen stars?   If history is any guide , their Super Bowl window is open for maybe this season and next, then the house of cards falls down.  The salary cap is a cruel master.  

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by ProcessTruster

[Niagara Dude]

13 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Ian Rapoport

@RapSheet

·

1m

The #Rams and WR Robert Woods have agreed to terms on a 4-year, $65M extension, source said. It’s worth a max of $68M and he gets $32M guaranteed.

Massive overpay for a average to good WR

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, The Dean said:

Bob Woods is the ultimate team player WR. With the exception of not having blazing speed, everything he does is top notch. Great hands. Great routes. Great blocker. Great attitude. He deserves this all day long, IMO.

 

 

....after "leaving the fold", both Robert and Sammy have cashed in quite nicely....................

[eball]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The biggest? Bigger than trading away a future HoF left tackle?

 

Well, yeah, that was the most glaring error of the drought era, but in Woods I’m just talking about a player who fits everything the Bills are about right now.  I suppose I’d throw discarding Lynch into that discussion as well.  Damn, there were just so many awful decisions.  I shouldn’t have participated in this thread.

 

On to Miami!

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

No, that would be if they had done it last year, or the year before.  But they won the super bowl in 2017.

 

Some of what they have now is a result of that - Alshon Jeffrey, Zac Ertz, Fletcher Cox (three of their biggest numbers in 2021 when they have the crunch) are all now in the big cap number years of contracts that they signed prior to the Superbowl season that kept their cap numbers artificially low in those first couple of years which helped them load up. They have kept loading up after that, admittedly, because they still saw a window they have failed to take advantage of. But the moves that enabled them to win the Superbowl are still impacting their cap position in 2020 and 2021. I think if there is a legit criticism it is that some of the short term moves they have made the last couple of years - DeSean Jackson, Malik Jackson, Marquise Goodwin.... are moves that you know are a risk when you have kicked the can on bigger deals. If they pay off and they win you a second ring, great! In the Eagles' case those moves have not paid off. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Some of what they have now is a result of that - Alshon Jeffrey, Zac Ertz, Fletcher Cox (three of their biggest numbers in 2021 when they have the crunch) are all now in the big cap number years of contracts that they signed prior to the Superbowl season that kept their cap numbers artificially low in those first couple of years which helped them load up. They have kept loading up after that, admittedly, because they still saw a window they have failed to take advantage of. But the moves that enabled them to win the Superbowl are still impacting their cap position in 2020 and 2021. I think if there is a legit criticism it is that some of the short term moves they have made the last couple of years - DeSean Jackson, Malik Jackson, Marquise Goodwin.... are moves that you know are a risk when you have kicked the can on bigger deals. If they pay off and they win you a second ring, great! In the Eagles' case those moves have not paid off. 

Switched from thumbs up, Gunner.
 

I have enjoyed your takes that I have been reading.  Well thought out opinion with great information.

Edited September 19, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Switched from thumbs up, Gunner.
 

I have enjoyed your takes that I have been reading.

 

Thanks! One of the reasons they are trying so hard to extend Ertz at the moment is because they want to lower his hit in 2021 to kick the can further again.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Some of what they have now is a result of that - Alshon Jeffrey, Zac Ertz, Fletcher Cox (three of their biggest numbers in 2021 when they have the crunch) are all now in the big cap number years of contracts that they signed prior to the Superbowl season that kept their cap numbers artificially low in those first couple of years which helped them load up. They have kept loading up after that, admittedly, because they still saw a window they have failed to take advantage of. But the moves that enabled them to win the Superbowl are still impacting their cap position in 2020 and 2021. I think if there is a legit criticism it is that some of the short term moves they have made the last couple of years - DeSean Jackson, Malik Jackson, Marquise Goodwin.... are moves that you know are a risk when you have kicked the can on bigger deals. If they pay off and they win you a second ring, great! In the Eagles' case those moves have not paid off. 

only thing I would really underscore for a guy like D2D is it’s an overarching philosophy to win in the window. 
 

it’s not push the chips in for a single year and buy a ring

 

Any given single season you have to hope you get lucky. If you push hard over several years you are more likely to get the breaks needed one of those seasons, maybe more.  
 

whether you get the ring the 1st or 3rd year of that window the eventual re-tooling is going to come when it’s time to pay the qb and move on from some of that overindexed talent you bought.
 

right now I’d rather push everything on the table and hopefully re tool around a franchise qb in a few years. Eagles fans will tell their kids where they were in 2017 and barely have 2021 register. I’d be 100% down for that as our next 3-4 years.

Edited September 19, 2020 by NoSaint

[BarleyNY]

The Iggles really kept the pedal to the metal on their spending to keep open their window. And that’s not been good in a lot of ways.  I watched their week 1 loss to Jax and all I could think was “They’re running headlong into cap hell for this?”  Also Carson Wentz is horribly overrated, but I knew that.  No way the Iggles win that SB if he wasn’t injured.
 

More generally contract numbers can look a lot bigger than they are in reality.  Incentives and possible bonuses often get included in the total as do non-guaranteed years with relatively large salaries that players are unlikely to see.  I’m happy for Woods.  He earned it and I hope he gets it all.  

[bigK14094]

15 hours ago, Dragoon said:

He’s a good player. Not sure he’s that good though. 

this is correct.  The Bills today have two receivers as good or better than Woods......Brown and Diggs, Brown at 9 and Diggs at 11.  But, this will make it tough to resign Brown after this year, as he may well expect the 16 treatment Woods got.  Oh well.........Bean has to make those tough calls, we just get to observe (and sometimes complain/gripe).

[Scott7975]

Good for Woods.  I loved Woods here and wished we could have kept him.  Although, I am very happy with our current receiving core.

[Saxum]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The biggest? Bigger than trading away a future HoF left tackle?

 

A tackle whose agent was going to sit him out until he was traded but you forget that because it does not fit your line.

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Thanks! One of the reasons they are trying so hard to extend Ertz at the moment is because they want to lower his hit in 2021 to kick the can further again.

 

I’ve been following that, and man, Gunner, they gotta keep him. 

[BuffaloMatt]

Loved him as a Bill. Came to work, did his job well, and never complained. 

[H2o]

Woods was a solid player, but everyone knew he was going home to California once he hit the FA market. I know I did. With all due respect to Mike Clay and his little Twitter jab at the Bills, the head coaches of those teams were Marrone for two years and Rex for two years. His QB's were EJ Manuel, Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassel, and Tyrod Taylor. The schemes and QB's weren't going to help him put up the type of numbers he is under McVay. 

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

It’s deals like this that makes me continue to question why people think the Bills can’t afford their players. The rams are laying Goff, Donald, Ramsey, Woods, Kupp all too money plus they have Gurley’s dead cap hit on top of that. People need to stop saying the Bills can’t afford all of their players. I will say it again, if the Bills want to keep a player, there is no issue whatsoever with them keeping that player

 

 

That's true. There's no issue with keeping nearly anyone you want. As long as you don't mind letting someone else go. Or two or three or more. That's the balance. I mean, sure, you can keep putting more and more on the credit card but these things come due sooner or later. And a low cap figure absolutely does make it more difficult to run a team.

 

As for what Woods is worth, I just read a story (link below) pointing out that over the last three seasons he ranks among the top 11 NFL receivers in receptions, receiving yards and yards after catch. And that last year he led the league in YAC (577 yards).

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29916230/source-rams-robert-woods-gets-4-year-65-million-contract-extension

 

And as needs to be mentioned every single time someone signs an extension is that the way they calculate average per year on nearly all extensions these days is wildly misleading. And Woods's extension is more of the same. It's $65M (w/ the possibility of $3M more in milestones) in new money and four new years. But as usual, the new money is not only paid in the new years. Dividing those two numbers together is greatly misleading. Woods is now under contract to the Rams for six years and $79 mill. Which comes to about $13.16M. Which is about 18th in the league now , but the new years of the contract don't start for another couple of years, and by then it will probably be about 30th or so, which will likely seem a terrific bargain.

 

More, the four new years are 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025. He gets his signing bonus now. You can't reasonably divide money paid in 2020 into the years 2022, 2023, 2024 and 2025. And 2022 is going to be a year when teams have a lot of spare money, having had to cut contracts to make it through the tough low cap number next year. The cap will probably jump somewhere on the order of $30 - 40 million between 2021 and 2022. Which will cause salary inflation, making salaries like Woods' and Tre's look cheap. The advantage for the players in terms of safety in terms of injuries can't be overestimated, though. It's a good deal for them as well.

 

But again, these contracts aren't nearly as punitive for the teams as you'd think if you only think ... Robert Woods? 4 years for $65M, so it's $17M/ Year? Insane!

 

But again, the figures are misleading.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Thurman#1

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

The Iggles really kept the pedal to the metal on their spending to keep open their window. And that’s not been good in a lot of ways.  I watched their week 1 loss to Jax and all I could think was “They’re running headlong into cap hell for this?”  Also Carson Wentz is horribly overrated, but I knew that.  No way the Iggles win that SB if he wasn’t injured.
 

More generally contract numbers can look a lot bigger than they are in reality.  Incentives and possible bonuses often get included in the total as do non-guaranteed years with relatively large salaries that players are unlikely to see.  I’m happy for Woods.  He earned it and I hope he gets it all.  

 

I’ll add “cap hell” isn’t terribly hellacious. Look at our own experience breaking the drought while in it

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

A tackle whose agent was going to sit him out until he was traded but you forget that because it does not fit your line.

 

 

It shouldn't fit anyone's line, because it's simply not true.

 

In the P.C. on his arrival in Philly, Jason Peters said he was completely shocked because he'd felt that he realized that the Bills weren't going to pay him and he felt he was going to have to play out his contract and then get a contract elsewhere. And a guy looking at getting a new contract somewhere isn't going to sit for two seasons. He's going to play for a new contract from that new team somewhere else.